1 (edited by TonyJ 2021-09-10 20:45:48)

Topic: Babyface pro FS latency review with VST (amazing)

Hello, I use Cubase 11 pro with the Babyface pro FS (bought this week), i9 9900k OC'ed at 5ghz, 32gb ram at 3200mhz, Windows 10, Komplete 13 and Nexus 3 for the VSTs, and I can't say I'm disappointed, but my latency is higher than I was expecting for my use (heavy VST sampled instrument).

  • at 48khz  64 samples :
    in : 1.667ms
    out : 2.167ms
    Total = 3.834

https://imgur.com/lwtWeJB
It's awesome, sadly with many heavy VST with sampled instrument, Like Kontakt with Sunburst guitar,  (what I mostly use) the sounds crack, but for most of the lights VST it works.

  • at 48khz  128 samples :
    in : 3.000ms
    out : 3.500ms
    Total = 6.500ms

https://imgur.com/lwtWeJB
It's awesome, sadly with many heavy VST with sampled instrument, Like Kontakt with Sunburst guitar, the sounds crack again some times, and with many heavy presets with Nexus 3, it cracks, but for light VST, not sampled, it works.

  • at 48khz  256 samples :
    in : 5.667ms
    out : 6.117ms
    Total = 11.834

https://imgur.com/a/cOQjtfd
I have no more cracked sound with heavy VST sampled instrument....sadly the latency is too high....I need 5ms

I have hesitated a long time with the RME Babyface pro FS and a low budget like the Motu 4, or the SSL2+, I don't regret, the latency could only be worst with a lower budget sound card.
But for my use, heavy sampled VST, I can't achieve a good latency without cracked sound (11.83ms with 256 samples at 48khz). I don't know if there is a solution, or if I need a more budget RME or any other sound card, I would like 5ms at 256 samples at 48khz.

Tell me your thought.


EDIT: it seems that at 44.1khz, 128 samples, it can render most of the heavy VST with minor cracks....and a latence at 7.05ms

Re: Babyface pro FS latency review with VST (amazing)

Hello!

You can try these tweaks for your system to relieve some more load from the CPU:

- Disable C-states in the Bios
- Highest perfomance settings(Windows)
- Optimize for Background tasks(Windows)
- Disable unnecessary windows services.

Also, open Device Manager -> USB controllers
Right click on every usb hub(or if you can pinpoint your specific USB por for the BF Pro FS) -> Properties -> Power Mangement and uncheck "Allow computer to turn off this device" option.

If you 've, already, done these, you could try disabling any heavy effects from each vst, like reverbs(especially convolution ones)

RME Gear: Digiface USB, HDSP 9632

3 (edited by ramses 2021-09-10 06:55:20)

Re: Babyface pro FS latency review with VST (amazing)

This is what I did for my system:
https://www.tonstudio-forum.de/blog/ind … -X10SRi-F/

In the BIOS there are some other usefule options, that can be turned down:
- Enhanced Halt State (C1E) : Disable
- Spread Spectrum: Disable (that clock stays constant)
- In some BIOS youi still find sometimes P- and T- States, disable them all

I keep EIST (Enhanced Intel Speedstep Techn.) enabled to be able to control cpu clock frequency by Windows Energy Profile using Bitsums parkcontrol and also enable Turbo if there is such an option.
In some cases (old mainboard) I disabled EIST to get a constant stable CPU clock. Clock changes also result in higher DPC latency, because changing the clock also needs some time.

Disable Windows CPU core parking using Bitsums Parkcontrol utility

Use ServicesSuite if you want/need to try to disable services: https://royalfool.de/ServicesSuite.html you can remember what was there as a default so that it's easier to come back. In my current system I didn't disable any service.

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub13

Re: Babyface pro FS latency review with VST (amazing)

If it is about sampler vst playback, only output latency is relevant IMHO. I can play piano in kontakt at 256 easily. I prefer 64 or 128 but to be honest 256 feels the same. 10ms output latency is indeed unplayable with percussive sounds like piano or drums. Pads and slow strings are fine.
Btw I have a bf pro FS too. And it performs only a very little bit worse then my RME PCI cards. Only under very heavy load you might get a crackle a little sooner. But latency itself is the same. Even 0.x ms worse on my hdsp9632.

Vincent, Amsterdam
https://soundcloud.com/thesecretworld
BFpro fs, 2X HDSP9652 ADI-8AE, 2X HDSP9632

Re: Babyface pro FS latency review with VST (amazing)

I have the Babyface pro fs and run at 64 samples just about all the time. I have the 9900k but not overclocked. Saying that in high performance settings the clock stays around 4.8ghz (cpu mon) I don’t use the plugins you do but I usually do have quite a few as well as audio tracks with lots of inserts. I use SD3 as well as virtual guitar and bass, spitfire orchestra as well as synth, sampler and piano tracks. I haven’t hit crackling yet in any of my projects. I keep buffers low as I play drums and can feel latency when playing my ekit at anything above about 12ms. I like the immediacy of 64 samples.

Babyface Pro Fs, Behringer ADA8200, win 10/11 PCs, Cubase/Wavelab, Adam A7X monitors.

6 (edited by TonyJ 2021-09-10 18:36:20)

Re: Babyface pro FS latency review with VST (amazing)

mkok wrote:

I have the Babyface pro fs and run at 64 samples just about all the time. I have the 9900k but not overclocked. Saying that in high performance settings the clock stays around 4.8ghz (cpu mon) I don’t use the plugins you do but I usually do have quite a few as well as audio tracks with lots of inserts. I use SD3 as well as virtual guitar and bass, spitfire orchestra as well as synth, sampler and piano tracks. I haven’t hit crackling yet in any of my projects. I keep buffers low as I play drums and can feel latency when playing my ekit at anything above about 12ms. I like the immediacy of 64 samples.

If I use this VST (sunburst) at 64 samples, it only cracks (in Melody mode, not pattern), I guess the samples are very very high quality compared to others VST.
https://www.native-instruments.com/en/p … -sunburst/
And with others VST with very high quality samples it cracks,  some presets in Nexus 3 crack too.
I have finally found that 44.1khz, 128 sample, and total latence of 7.05ms is good

Re: Babyface pro FS latency review with VST (amazing)

Samples needed to be loaded into RAM from Harddrive.
When too much samples are requested at one moment, interrupts occure.
Is there no option in Cubase to preload samples in a project ?

M1-Sequoia, Madiface Pro, Digiface USB, Babyface silver and blue

8 (edited by TonyJ 2021-09-10 18:37:32)

Re: Babyface pro FS latency review with VST (amazing)

waedi wrote:

Samples needed to be loaded into RAM from Harddrive.
When too much samples are requested at one moment, interrupts occure.
Is there no option in Cubase to preload samples in a project ?

I don't know, but I guess the very very high quality  samples from Native Instrument is the issue (and it's not an issue, the top quality is a pleasure) but at 64 samples, no way to handle this VST in Melody mode, even if many others 'lights" VST work at 64 samples...With this VST I have found that 128 samples 44.1khz works, and 256 samples 48khz works too.

9 (edited by TonyJ 2021-09-10 20:46:09)

Re: Babyface pro FS latency review with VST (amazing)

Hi again, I'm so happy, it's FIXED !
I was sad, but now I can enjoy all my VST, even the most heavy at 48khz 64 samples !
My latency is now :

  • input : 1.667ms
    output : 2.167ms
    TOTAL = 3.834ms

This card is the best, it's worth every €uros I have spent, it's awesome.
This fix was found here :
https://www.native-instruments.com/foru … nd.429291/
I have to add "ultimate performance" for windows power plan, now all is perfect, no more cracking sound at 64 samples, before I have to play at 128 samples.

This card is a monster.

Re: Babyface pro FS latency review with VST (amazing)

Not getting your point, what "card" is a monster ?

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub13

Re: Babyface pro FS latency review with VST (amazing)

I think it means the Babyface pro is great

Babyface Pro Fs, Behringer ADA8200, win 10/11 PCs, Cubase/Wavelab, Adam A7X monitors.

Re: Babyface pro FS latency review with VST (amazing)

Ah ok. If I hear card I always think of a PCI/PCIe card. But maybe its kind of "jargon".

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub13

13 (edited by TonyJ 2022-05-04 23:19:04)

Re: Babyface pro FS latency review with VST (amazing)

Hello, sorry to post again, I have sold my Babyface pro FS last year for money, but now it's ok, I'm safe, but there is no Babyface pro FS in stock in the world, I can't buy it again sad
What RME USB sound card has a better latency for VST in Cubase than the Babyface pro FS ?

14 (edited by ramses 2022-05-05 06:03:17)

Re: Babyface pro FS latency review with VST (amazing)

TonyJ wrote:

Hello, sorry to post again, I have sold my Babyface pro FS last year for money, but now it's ok, I'm safe, but there is no Babyface pro FS in stock in the world, I can't buy it again sad
What RME USB sound card has a better latency for VST in Cubase than the Babyface pro FS ?

This question doesn't make to me much sense as all RME drivers have a very low latency in terms of
- RTL (round trip latency)
- AD/DA converter latency (which is anyway much lower compared to RTL)

More critical is the PC side in terms of HW and settings with good drivers resulting in lower DPC latency and a more agile computer which makes it possible to use lower ASIO buffer sizes in many cases.

As you can see from my blog article, the RTL (round trip latency) between different RME products with different drivers and setups (ADAT, MADI) are pretty much on par and the differences are not that high.

https://www.tonstudio-forum.de/attachment/2343-ufx-ufx-raydat-latencies-v2-jpg/

Look more that you get the features / flexibility that you need.
You can compare interfaces / features with my Excel that you find in this blog article:
https://www.tonstudio-forum.de/blog/Ent … B-MADIfac/
Direct Link to Excel: https://www.tonstudio-forum.de/attachme … 4-08-xlsx/

It's always good to have some spare ports.. The more ports you have as spare the more ports you have for e.g.
- loopback (if needed, without sacrificing ports that you need to connect devices) or
- to split audio from PC to TM FX SW playbacks (*)
- with more analog I/O ports you can connect external devices
- with two ADAT ports you can connect external devices (preamps, AD/DA converter) with 8 ports also at double speed
- with an additional spare AES ports you can later add high grade converters like ADI-2 Pro FS R BE and still have ADAT to add external preamps or AD/DA converter
- with MADI you can add more devices allowing up to 2km between each of the devices in a serial chain of MADI devices allowing better placement of devices to e.g. different recording rooms, etc

(*) The more SW playback channels you have the more you can customize the monitoring for monitors and phones.

IMHO the best USB interfaces are:
- BBF Pro (main focus mobility and quality)
- UCX II (Autoset, DURec, USB2, got much from UFX II, even the excellend preamps with 75dB gain)
- UFX II (Autoset, DURec, USB2, 30ch interface)
- UFX+  (Autoset, DURec, USB3/2/TB, MADI)

I leave out MADIface XT, it's a bit special and focuses more on the special case to offer 3 MADI busses (btw, had Mic/Line, but no Instr inputs).

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub13

Re: Babyface pro FS latency review with VST (amazing)

ramses wrote:
TonyJ wrote:

Hello, sorry to post again, I have sold my Babyface pro FS last year for money, but now it's ok, I'm safe, but there is no Babyface pro FS in stock in the world, I can't buy it again sad
What RME USB sound card has a better latency for VST in Cubase than the Babyface pro FS ?


IMHO the best USB interfaces are:
- BBF Pro (main focus mobility and quality)
- UCX II (Autoset, DURec, USB2, got much from UFX II, even the excellend preamps with 75dB gain)
- UFX II (Autoset, DURec, USB2, 30ch interface)
- UFX+  (Autoset, DURec, USB3/2/TB, MADI)

I leave out MADIface XT, it's a bit special and focuses more on the special case to offer 3 MADI busses (btw, had Mic/Line, but no Instr inputs).

I just need 2 in/out, it's for home studio, but I need the RME babyface pro FS...sadly there is no in stock.

Re: Babyface pro FS latency review with VST (amazing)

BTW, as you can see in my Excel in Line 30 the converter latency of the BBF Pro FS is already excellent.
The RTL depending (mainly) on ASIO buffersize is also excellent for each of the devices as you can see in the screenshot.
So for you there is no reason to switch to another recording interface, the little differences in converter latency are marginal.

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub13

Re: Babyface pro FS latency review with VST (amazing)

ramses wrote:

BTW, as you can see in my Excel in Line 30 the converter latency of the BBF Pro FS is already excellent.
The RTL depending (mainly) on ASIO buffersize is also excellent for each of the devices as you can see in the screenshot.
So for you there is no reason to switch to another recording interface, the little differences in converter latency are marginal.

the reason is I have emailed my shop, they've said they can ship me for january 2023....