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Topic: Best way to coonect ADI DAC FS to amp

Hi all,

I have connected my fabolous ADI DAC to my Yamaha As-2100 integrated amp, via xlr out. I've fixed dac volume at -3db db. considering a +3db from ROON and +6db from xlr and a +5db gain.

I am thinking of using my amp "main in" in order to use Yamaha as a final amp only. This should allow me to use all the DAC's features and, above all, loudness, but I'd like to understand with your help the pros and cons of this choice.

Is there any clear advantage, other than convenience or personal likings, in connecting the DAC also as a pre or as a DAC only?

Thank you in advance.

PS: This is by far the best DAC I've ever listened to...

2 Reply by KaiS (edited by KaiS 2020-06-22 17:41:54)

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Re: Best way to coonect ADI DAC FS to amp

If you are going to use YAMAHA AS-2100's "Main Input", there is nothing special to watch out, except that you should set ADI 2 DAC's:
• Reference level to +7dBu.
• Auto Reference Level to: Off.


YAMAHA AS-2100 main i/o's level is specified as 1V RMS.
ADI-2 DAC's Reference Level at +7dBu = +1dBu at the Cinch output, as Cinch's level is 6dB below the XLR's.
There is an additional range of 2.5dB on ADI 2 DAC's volume control.
So you end up with 7 - 6 + 2.5 = +3.5dBu = 1.16V RMS.

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Re: Best way to coonect ADI DAC FS to amp

KaiS,
thank you for your answer.

I'll guess I have to take in account for the equation that Roon has a +3db of headroom management and +6db when it upsamples in DSD, is it correct?

Beside this, which is the best connection to the AS-2100, as a preamp or as DAC only?

4 Reply by KaiS (edited by KaiS 2020-06-23 14:31:33)

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Re: Best way to coonect ADI DAC FS to amp

Ghostdot wrote:

I'll guess I have to take in account for the equation that Roon has a +3db of headroom management and +6db when it upsamples in DSD, is it correct?

If you feel the need to max out the power of your amp, you could go for the next higher step:
• ADI-2 DAC's Reference Level to +13dBu.

Be careful not to fry your speakers, 6dB more level in dBu means 4 times the power in watts, 4 times the heat produced.

This is why I do NOT suggest to use Auto Reference Level in front of a power amp.



Ghostdot wrote:

... when it upsamples in DSD

There is no point in upsampling PCM to DSD, this would not recover any frequency range or other quality that is no longer present in the recording.
DSD only makes sense if it's done natively, end to end, ALL THROUGH a music production.
This not quite often the case, as working in DSD largely limits the processing capabilities.


What can make sense, according to my own experience, is upsampling the feed to the ADI-2 if you want to use it's internal processing - but only then.
Specially the equalizer benefits from higher samplerates.

The same effect is achieved if you use ADI-2 Pro's internal sample rate converter and let the device run on a higher samplerate by it's internal clock.



Ghostdot wrote:

... which is the best connection to the AS-2100, as a preamp or as DAC only?

• YAMAHA AS-2100's balanced input with attenuator set to -6dB.
• ADI-2 DAC's Reference Level to +13dBu.
• ADI-2 DAC's volume control to 0dB.


No need to deal with the Roon's headrooms in this setup.
There is enough gain margin in YAMAHA AS-2100's volume control to more than max out the power amp.

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Re: Best way to coonect ADI DAC FS to amp

KaiS wrote:

This is why I do NOT suggest to use Auto Reference Level in front of a power amp.

If I may Kais, I think you mean an integrated amp (or a preamp)...

In front of a power amp, you need volume control and so Auto Vol Ref is useful.

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6 Reply by KaiS (edited by KaiS 2020-06-23 15:08:00)

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Re: Best way to coonect ADI DAC FS to amp

N00b wrote:
KaiS wrote:

This is why I do NOT suggest to use Auto Reference Level in front of a power amp.

If I may Kais, I think you mean an integrated amp (or a preamp)...

In front of a power amp, you need volume control and so Auto Vol Ref is useful.

No, specially with a power amp you do need an as good as possible upper level matching.
Auto Reference Level would make it too easy to blow your speakers.


I do understand what you are heading for:
on lower volumes the DAC could switch to the next lower Ref. Level step.
I would not take that risk for a small benefit.

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7 Reply by N00b (edited by N00b 2020-06-23 14:53:19)

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Re: Best way to coonect ADI DAC FS to amp

KaiS wrote:
N00b wrote:
KaiS wrote:

This is why I do NOT suggest to use Auto Reference Level in front of a power amp.

If I may Kais, I think you mean an integrated amp (or a preamp)...

In front of a power amp, you need volume control and so Auto Vol Ref is useful.

No, specially with a power amp do you need an  as good as possible level matching.
Auto Reference Level would make it too easy to blow your speakers.

We are a lot here to use the ADI-2 DAC or Pro in front of the power amp of our active speakers... And to use Auto Vol Ref. Sometimes with pads, sometimes without.
https://forum.rme-audio.de/viewtopic.php?id=25399

For me, I strongly advise using Auto Vol Ref when you use the volume control of the ADI-2, so in front of a power amp.

And I advise fix level with Auto Vol Ref off if the volume is set elsewhere (so in front of a pre-amp or an integrated amp).

ADI-2 DAC (with stock PSU) - Neumann KH 310 A monitors - Cheap USB and XLR cables

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8 Reply by willem (edited by willem 2020-06-23 16:27:43)

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Re: Best way to coonect ADI DAC FS to amp

I use my ADI-2 as a preamp into a power amplifier with rca connectors, with auto ref level, and it works a treat. In my case, my Quad 606-2 power amp has a high input sensitivity of 0.5 Volt so I use some inline attenuators.

RME ADI-2 DAC fs, Quad 606-2 power amp, Quad 2805 speakers, B&W PV1d sub with Antimode 8033 Cinema
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Re: Best way to coonect ADI DAC FS to amp

willem wrote:

I use my ADI-2 as a preamp into a power amplifier with rca connectors, with auto ref level, and it works a treat. In my case, my Quad 606-2 power amp has a high input sensitivity of 0.5 Volt so
I use some inline attenuators.

That's exactly my point.
A broken speaker does not play music any more.

The YAMAHA AS-2100's power amp input has a high sensitiviity of 1V too.


Personally I am not listening very loud, so I usually stay with the lowest Reference Level on my ADI-2 Pro connected to any of my power amps.
Wouldn't be fun to break €20,000 worth of speakers or several thousand euro worth of headphones just buy a stupid move.

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Re: Best way to coonect ADI DAC FS to amp

KaiS wrote:
willem wrote:

I use my ADI-2 as a preamp into a power amplifier with rca connectors, with auto ref level, and it works a treat. In my case, my Quad 606-2 power amp has a high input sensitivity of 0.5 Volt so
I use some inline attenuators.

That's exactly my point.
A broken speaker does not play music any more.

The YAMAHA AS-2100's power amp input has a high sensitiviity of 1V too.


Personally I am not listening very loud, so I usually stay with the lowest Reference Level on my ADI-2 Pro connected to any of my power amps.
Wouldn't be fun to break €20,000 worth of speakers or several thousand euro worth of headphones just buy a stupid move.

FYI, "pads" in my last message = attenuators...

ADI-2 DAC (with stock PSU) - Neumann KH 310 A monitors - Cheap USB and XLR cables

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11 Reply by N00b (edited by N00b 2020-06-24 00:51:24)

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Re: Best way to coonect ADI DAC FS to amp

And if you read the thread I've linked, we are a lot here to use Auto Vol Ref with the ADI connected to a power amp (active speakers or hifi power amps). Of course levels have to me matched. In my case, with the sensitivity switch behind my speakers, no need for pads (=attenuators). I used to have some, but volume was too low when listening to some low volume classical tracks...
But Auto Vol Ref always on!! And I am just careful with hot tracks.

Like when we have classical analog volume pots on some powerful integrated amplifier, of course you must be careful not setting it at 100% with certain tracks...

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12 Reply by alexanderdemaet (edited by alexanderdemaet 2021-06-23 11:43:46)

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Re: Best way to coonect ADI DAC FS to amp

Which settings should I apply on a RME Adi 2 pro when I connect it to a Cayin CS 55A integrated amp unbalanced?

Specs are:
Power Output: 40W+40W (Ultra-Linear)
Frequency Response: 5Hz - 48kHz (-3dB)
THD: 1.0% (at 1kHz)
S/N Ratio (Line/Phono): 92dB/68dB
Line Input Sensitivity: 280mV
Line Input Impedance: 100kΩ

13 Reply by KaiS (edited by KaiS 2021-06-23 14:30:31)

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Re: Best way to coonect ADI DAC FS to amp

alexanderdemaet wrote:

Which settings should I apply on a RME Adi 2 pro when I connect it to a Cayin CS 55A integrated amp unbalanced?

Specs are:
Power Output: 40W+40W (Ultra-Linear)
Frequency Response: 5Hz - 48kHz (-3dB)
THD: 1.0% (at 1kHz)
S/N Ratio (Line/Phono): 92dB/68dB
Line Input Sensitivity: 280mV
Line Input Impedance: 100kΩ

Look at the link below.
I have developed a way to set this up without complicated thinking about dB numbers and sensitivity of amps, which leads you nowhere, because factory specs don’t help in this regard.

There are two scenarios, where you either use the integrated amp’s or ADI-2’s volume control.
Test both and find out which fits best to your needs.
Both max out the available quality.

https://forum.rme-audio.de/viewtopic.ph … 21#p161721

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Re: Best way to coonect ADI DAC FS to amp

Hello,

I'd like to get help regarding to connect the DAC FS to a Myryad MA240 with XLR. What settings should I have to do to have the best level output? Thank you in advance!

15 Reply by KaiS (edited by KaiS 2022-05-04 19:28:28)

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Re: Best way to coonect ADI DAC FS to amp

Myryad wrote:

Hello,

I'd like to get help regarding to connect the DAC FS to a Myryad MA240 with XLR. What settings should I have to do to have the best level output? Thank you in advance!

Use ADI-2 DAC’s factory defaults:
(Auto Reference Level = ON).

This is already very good.

To further optimize the level adaption Passive Attenuators can be used:
https://forum.rme-audio.de/viewtopic.ph … 42#p120442

These come in various flavors. e.g.:
https://thumbs.static-thomann.de/thumb/padthumb600x600/pics/bdb/197430/7545767_800.jpg

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Re: Best way to coonect ADI DAC FS to amp

Thank you! I have to learn the so many options in the DAC. smile