Topic: For info - Cubase 11 on Big Sur, HDSPe aggregate problem!

Hi,

So for info, aggregate driver for HDSPe (combining 3 Multifaces) works OK on Big Sur, Ableton 10.

...but it's not working on Cubase 11!

No audio output at all and processor showing as permanently overloaded.

Selecting individual cards works OK.

Arguable as to which company may be at fault, but this makes the system unusable for me. Luckily, I still have a Mojave volume.

2 (edited by Purusha 2021-01-04 12:33:02)

Re: For info - Cubase 11 on Big Sur, HDSPe aggregate problem!

For info, I've had a response from Steinberg.

"Martin.Jirsak

Hi,

Aggregate Device is not officially supported by any DAW since ever, because of timing issues when you are syncing them. Even Logic (Apple’s DAW) doesn’t officially support it."

So, I think they're pointing the finger at RME. Aggregate devices not supported it seems.

Edit: apologies! I've just seen another thread discussing the same issue. Have added some info in there.

3 (edited by ywshuo 2021-03-08 02:28:44)

Re: For info - Cubase 11 on Big Sur, HDSPe aggregate problem!

I have been using aggregate for some time now and it's been no issue. Cubase 11, Catalina.

3 HDSPe cards, AIO, RayDat, and AES. AIO has a slightly bigger latency than the other two (due to the AD/DA I suppose?) and the aggregate works at exact AIO's latency. All I/Os properly working, no issue at all. Handles big projects with ease.

Are you sure you have properly synced the three with either internal clock cable (3-pin) or other means? Maybe it's a Big Sur specific issue?

4 (edited by kol.ut.shan 2021-03-08 10:50:58)

Re: For info - Cubase 11 on Big Sur, HDSPe aggregate problem!

I have the same issues with Big Sur but it is not only an issue with Cubase but the whole OS. I have 3 cards (TB3 PCIe) and they're synced with the internal clock cable and everything worked fine on Mojave & Catalina (also still fine on Windows 10). If I use the individual cards they work but there is no output over an aggregate audio device disregarding what channel from which card is used. So I'm pretty convinced that this is Big Sur related...

Re: For info - Cubase 11 on Big Sur, HDSPe aggregate problem!

Using an aggregate has often a problem behind, something wrong with the setup, routing failures etc.
Aggregate is an OSX feature that does not guarantee you working with non-apple devices !
DAWs don't support it, you had it working, luckily but then no more.
Try to find the real problem and solve it without aggregate.
What was the architecture of your aggregate ? The devices, Ins and Outs ?

M1-Monterey, Madiface Pro, Digiface USB, Babyface silver

Re: For info - Cubase 11 on Big Sur, HDSPe aggregate problem!

I never had any issues with any Mac OS version before and I also want to say, that this is an official supported thing by RME and stated in the RayDat & Madi manual. I don't have any real problems which I want to solve with the function, what I want to achieve is to use all my Ins and Outs as one device in my DAW (Cubase & Logic) like I do for years now. With Big Sur and RME however that is just no longer possible which is quite a deal breaker sad and the only other option would be to change to a single Madi FX card (currently I have 1x Madi and 2x RayDat) but for that I would also need a converter for all the adat converters and we're talking a lot of money here for a function working perfectly fine in the past...

7 (edited by waedi 2021-03-08 17:04:01)

Re: For info - Cubase 11 on Big Sur, HDSPe aggregate problem!

For me the user manual does not state official support aggregate devices.
It mentions that there is this function available from OSX and this also refers to osx where the support has to be.
Believe it or not, Apple does not guarantee you anything.
You have non-apple software running and non-apple devices are connected to the mac.
How many times you click yes during a software installation without reading the text where apple steps back from responsibility.
This is normal.
All you have to do is format disc and load image from backup, back to Catalina.
Sorry for not better helping.

M1-Monterey, Madiface Pro, Digiface USB, Babyface silver

Re: For info - Cubase 11 on Big Sur, HDSPe aggregate problem!

Ok fair enough, as on Windows the asio driver just handles the multi aggregate device automatically I thought that this is simply the way it works on Mac OS. Sure Catalina would be an option but that comes with other negatives so the whole situation is not great. I'll get in touch with Apple then so they maybe have the mercy to have a look what changed with Big Sur. Whats also a bit strange that I virtually was not able to see any other issues with other vendors audio devices and the aggregate function on Big Sur searching google. Thats why it currently looks very much RME specific.

Re: For info - Cubase 11 on Big Sur, HDSPe aggregate problem!

I agree, the situation is a nightmare !
There is also the point, when looking the internet for the issue happen in other studios, you can't find.
I think this is because you are very outstanding, RayDAT and Madi together and on top of it aggregate device.
How much people in the world do this ?
The road goes Madi and M32 converters, one day.
Not cheap but great.

M1-Monterey, Madiface Pro, Digiface USB, Babyface silver

Re: For info - Cubase 11 on Big Sur, HDSPe aggregate problem!

What we may be missing here, is that aggregate is reported to work with other cards from other manufacturers.

That's not a definitive conclusion, but does suggest that RME should hopefully investigate.

Re: For info - Cubase 11 on Big Sur, HDSPe aggregate problem!

So, a few more data points on this possibly.

I've found that *any* combination of devices in an aggregate on Big Sur will cause Cubase and Wavelab (both Steinberg) to fail. That includes non-RME devices, which points the finger back at Steinberg.

Ableton and NI's Maschine are apparently OK.

The big difference, is that Ableton and Maschine use Core Audio directly. Steinberg use a conversion module - core2asio, which presents the driver interface as ASIO for their products.

So - I guess either RME would re-do their drivers to presents as ASIO on Mac, as they do on Windows, or Steinberg will have to fix their core2asio module for Cubase and Wavelab.

Either way, multiple RME cards on Mac's Big Sur can't currently be combined so the Cubase and RME solution is currently a big problem for me.

Re: For info - Cubase 11 on Big Sur, HDSPe aggregate problem!

Someone suggested I try Rogue Amoeba’s Loopback to present the channels to Cubase. That kind-of works, which suggests that updating core2asio might work. I set it up to route channels from the aggregate.

It also suggests that there might be some mileage in wrapping the aggregate somehow without having to pay for Rogue Amoeba?

Re: For info - Cubase 11 on Big Sur, HDSPe aggregate problem!

Loopback looks to be the winning solution. I can take the aggregate out of the equation altogether and it seems to work. Might have some other useful routing capabilities for me too, E.g. sending multiple audio outputs to my various speakers.

Re: For info - Cubase 11 on Big Sur, HDSPe aggregate problem!

I have an update on this, with interesting (to me) new behaviour. It's now looking like a RME driver issue.

On my MacPro, running MacOS 12.3.1, the same 3 Multifaces as before and Cubase 12.0.20 - Aggregate devices *do* now work UNTIL I add one of my Multifaces to the aggregate.

So, I can aggregate other devices, but not the RME devices.

So - I guess I need to try out any new RME drivers. If you have anything in beta you want me to try, to confirm behaviour - let me know.