• Registered: 2022-05-19
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Topic: ADI-2 for speakers or outboard-mixbus-chain?

Hi there!

I´m looking into the benefits of high class converting for my studio-/mixing setup and was wondering what´s better - would love to get advice on this:

1)
I own an RME UFX and am currently building an outboard chain for the mixbus. Where should I use a high class converter for - the In/Out-loop going through the outboard or the speaker output?

Maybe use the ADI outputs for speakers, ADI inputs to return the outboard loop and some UFX outputs to send into the loop?


2)
On the other hand - the speaker outputs go right into a Neumann KH750 DSP Subwoofer, so they´ll get converted again anyways - so maybe it´s better to use the high quality conversion for the outboard loop?


Or would you say the UFX is good enough for this purpose in general?
I´m just diving into this whole thing and can definitely use any sort of advice on this.

Thanks in advance!
Cheers,
Chris

2 Reply by KaiS (edited by KaiS 2022-05-19 19:12:58)

  • KaiS
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Re: ADI-2 for speakers or outboard-mixbus-chain?

Step one: switch to digital speaker connection.
Use the UFX to feed the speakers.

Now you can add ADI-2 Pro for the mixbus chain, or run it from the UFX analog I/O.

KaiS's Website

  • Registered: 2022-05-19
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Re: ADI-2 for speakers or outboard-mixbus-chain?

Yes, I thought about this as well.
But unfortunately the digital input of the dsp sub only is 192 kHz/24-Bit AES3- and S/P-DIF and only has a BNC connection.

It seems like I can´t get into it digitally with the UFX, especially because none of my projects are in 192kHz.
Or am I missing something? Sorry, complete newbie here.

Thanks so much for the reply!

4 Reply by KaiS (edited by KaiS 2022-05-19 20:01:47)

  • KaiS
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Re: ADI-2 for speakers or outboard-mixbus-chain?

Audiomane wrote:

... But unfortunately the digital input of the dsp sub only is 192 kHz/24-Bit AES3- and S/P-DIF and only has a BNC connection.

It seems like I can´t get into it digitally with the UFX, especially because none of my projects are in 192kHz.

RCA - BNC is a few pennies adapter, available everywhere.

192 kHz is the max. Sample Rate the Neumann KH750 DSP accepts.
BTW: 192 kHz 24 bit is the maximum SPDIF / AES interface can transfer.

KH750 DSP digital input works with every common SR.
Give it a try.

As far as I can see digital speaker connection solves most of your “problems” in one step.

KaiS's Website

  • Registered: 2022-05-19
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Re: ADI-2 for speakers or outboard-mixbus-chain?

Oh I see! Thanks a ton.

Do you know if the kh750 will automatically detect which SR it receives or if I have to change settings whenever the SRs of projects change?

6 Reply by KaiS (edited by KaiS 2022-05-20 08:27:46)

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Re: ADI-2 for speakers or outboard-mixbus-chain?

Audiomane wrote:

Do you know if the kh750 will automatically detect which SR it receives or if I have to change settings whenever the SRs of projects change?

It’s not specially mentioned anywhere, but there’s simply is no user control for SR, nothing to set on your side.

As an end device only working as a clock slave does make sense, this includes auto-detect.

The supported SRs are (taken from specs):
https://en-de.neumann.com/kh-750-dsp
22,05; 24; 32; 44,1; 48; 64; 88,2; 96; 176,4; 192 kHz

Simply all that make sense and are possible through SPDIF / AES.


Remark according digital clock:

There may only be one single master clock.
All other devices need to be slaved, synchronized and locked to the master clock.

Only the master clock has it’s sample rate set, all others need to follow automatically.
It does not make any sense to set a sample rate in a device that is clock slave.

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7 Reply by Audiomane (edited by Audiomane 2022-05-21 09:26:56)

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Re: ADI-2 for speakers or outboard-mixbus-chain?

Thank you so much! Makes sense.

Now I was wondering what exact cables to get for connecting the RME AES EBU output to the AES3 input of the KH750.

I will need…

a 3-Pin (110Ohm ?) XLR cable
https://www.thomann.de/de/cordial_cpd_5_fm.htm

a Neutrik XLR-BNC Adapter
https://www.thomann.de/de/neutrik_nadit_bnc_f.htm

and a BNC (75Ohm) cable
https://www.thomann.de/de/sommer_cable_ … hm_05m.htm


Are those cables good enough or should I use different ones? Happy for any suggestions..

I originally thought that cables for the digital domain wouldn’t make a difference but it seems like there are a lot of things that one can do wrong and worsen the quality.

Once again, Thank you!

Edit:
I will need around 4-5m of cable length. I chose the xlr cable to be 5m and the bnc to just be a short connection from the adapter to the KH750. Would it be better the other way around? Or doesn’t this matter at all?

  • vinark
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Re: ADI-2 for speakers or outboard-mixbus-chain?

From a purely ideal such a HQ ext FX loop makes sense, but practically, noise ánd distortion of that loop will be much higher then of the ufx. So if it makes audible and even measurae difference through the loop is most unlikely.

Vincent, Amsterdam
https://soundcloud.com/thesecretworld
BFpro fs, 2X HDSP9652 ADI-8AE, 2X HDSP9632

9 Reply by KaiS (edited by KaiS 2022-05-21 10:25:30)

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Re: ADI-2 for speakers or outboard-mixbus-chain?

Audiomane wrote:

Thank you so much! Makes sense.

Now I was wondering what exact cables to get for connecting the RME AES EBU output to the AES3 input of the KH750.

I will need…

a 3-Pin (110Ohm ?) XLR cable
https://www.thomann.de/de/cordial_cpd_5_fm.htm

a Neutrik XLR-BNC Adapter
https://www.thomann.de/de/neutrik_nadit_bnc_f.htm

and a BNC (75Ohm) cable
https://www.thomann.de/de/sommer_cable_ … hm_05m.htm


Are those cables good enough or should I use different ones? Happy for any suggestions..

I originally thought that cables for the digital domain wouldn’t make a difference but it seems like there are a lot of things that one can do wrong and worsen the quality.

Once again, Thank you!

Edit:
I will need around 4-5m of cable length. I chose the xlr cable to be 5m and the bnc to just be a short connection from the adapter to the KH750. Would it be better the other way around? Or doesn’t this matter at all?

Good that you asked, because in the KH750’s manual it’s explicitly mentioned that you may not directly connect AES signals to Neumann KH750.
The AES level is too high and will break something they say.
There is a good chance that the mentioned adapter does not reduce the level enough.

Therefore I strongly suggest to use ADI-2 Pro’s RCA out with a simple BNC adapter on the KH750 side.
https://www.thomann.de/de/pro_snake_ada … rca_75.htm

With 5 m any RCA-RCA cable will work.

KaiS's Website

  • bejoro
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Re: ADI-2 for speakers or outboard-mixbus-chain?

The Neutrik NADIT BNC-F is the recommended adapter, KH 750 manual:

https://www.audiosciencereview.com/foru … ost-808700

The cables seem o. k. and should fit.

bejoro's Website

11 Reply by KaiS (edited by KaiS 2022-05-22 08:51:49)

  • KaiS
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Re: ADI-2 for speakers or outboard-mixbus-chain?

The Neutrik adapter, for whatever reason, seems to be limited to max. 48 kHz Sample Rate, opposed to Coax which goes up to 192 kHz, just in case it’s needed.
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?attachments/1623018313265-png.134193/

KaiS's Website

12 Reply by MC

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Re: ADI-2 for speakers or outboard-mixbus-chain?

I mentioned before that that Neutrik adapter works perfectly also at 192 kHz. I use it myself.

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME

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13 Reply by KaiS (edited by KaiS 2022-05-22 13:43:21)

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Re: ADI-2 for speakers or outboard-mixbus-chain?

MC wrote:

I mentioned before that that Neutrik adapter works perfectly also at 192 kHz. I use it myself.

Then give it a go!

The Neutrik’s additional isolation of grounds (“galvanic isolation”) is a valuable feature that can save a lot of headscratching about groundloop related hum.

It adds what the KH-750 should have had in the first place, a proper AES digital port.

KaiS's Website

  • Registered: 2022-11-16
  • Posts: 7

Re: ADI-2 for speakers or outboard-mixbus-chain?

Audiomane, did it work?

I am also searching how to connect RME AES EBU output to the AES3 input of the Neumann KH750.

Thanks everyone for the info in this thread.


KaiS wrote:
Audiomane wrote:

Thank you so much! Makes sense.

Now I was wondering what exact cables to get for connecting the RME AES EBU output to the AES3 input of the KH750.

I will need…

a 3-Pin (110Ohm ?) XLR cable
https://www.thomann.de/de/cordial_cpd_5_fm.htm

a Neutrik XLR-BNC Adapter
https://www.thomann.de/de/neutrik_nadit_bnc_f.htm

and a BNC (75Ohm) cable
https://www.thomann.de/de/sommer_cable_ … hm_05m.htm


Are those cables good enough or should I use different ones? Happy for any suggestions..

I originally thought that cables for the digital domain wouldn’t make a difference but it seems like there are a lot of things that one can do wrong and worsen the quality.

Once again, Thank you!

Edit:
I will need around 4-5m of cable length. I chose the xlr cable to be 5m and the bnc to just be a short connection from the adapter to the KH750. Would it be better the other way around? Or doesn’t this matter at all?

Good that you asked, because in the KH750’s manual it’s explicitly mentioned that you may not directly connect AES signals to Neumann KH750.
The AES level is too high and will break something they say.
There is a good chance that the mentioned adapter does not reduce the level enough.

Therefore I strongly suggest to use ADI-2 Pro’s RCA out with a simple BNC adapter on the KH750 side.
https://www.thomann.de/de/pro_snake_ada … rca_75.htm

With 5 m any RCA-RCA cable will work.

UFX II, FF 802, UCX, MacBook Pro, OS10.15 & Win7/10 (Bootcamp), Cubase12
  • Registered: 2023-06-30
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Re: ADI-2 for speakers or outboard-mixbus-chain?

Skyshaper wrote:

I am also searching how to connect RME AES EBU output to the AES3 input of the Neumann KH750.

No need to connect AES3. Connect the RCA S/P-DIF out to the KH 750; this is the correct way.

Fireface UCX II + ARC USB > ADI-2 Pro FS R BE > Neumann KH 750 DSP + MA 1 > KH 120 A

16 Reply by KaiS (edited by KaiS 2024-09-11 06:52:36)

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Re: ADI-2 for speakers or outboard-mixbus-chain?

unpluggged wrote:
Skyshaper wrote:

I am also searching how to connect RME AES EBU output to the AES3 input of the Neumann KH750.

No need to connect AES3. Connect the RCA S/P-DIF out to the KH 750; this is the correct way.

I’d even suggest to try ADI-2’s SPDIF Coax first, the little RCA to BNC adapter costs a few pennies.
https://f.media-amazon.com/images/I/11MAxovjkOL._AC_.jpg

Only that this won’t isolate the ground between ADI-2 and the Neumanns.
As a result there might come up hum from a ground loop -
not between ADI-2 and the Neumanns (the digital signal doesn’t care), but might show up on analog connections between ADI-2 and other devices.

In this case the Neutrik AES to BNC adapter/converter is the solution to break that ground loop.

This is mentioned in Neumann’s manual page 10, see below.

There’s even the warning NOT to directly connect XLR/AES to BNC through a simple cable adapter, as the KH750’s input can break!

IMO Neumann should have used a proper standard XLR AES in the first place to avoid all this head-scratching.
A professional device should be safely usable without reading the manual.

https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?attachments/1623018313265-png.134193/

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