1 (edited by Vincent Claveau 2022-05-26 01:40:38)

Topic: RME DRIVERS - Possible Corruptions ? (UFX II USB) Win10

Intel i7 - 3.8Ghz
MSI Gaming Edge Wifi z490
64GB RAM
Windows 10

Cubase 10 - 11 - 12
RME FIREFACE UFX II

Drivers and Firmware Up to Date
---------------------------------------------------

Howdy everyone, very first post on a forum and I need an input about this topic. I had tech jobs for 4 - 5 years and this problem is out of my knowledge:

I have worked about 2 years with RME and Cubase combined without ANY problems. Flawless.
I then decided to work from my hometown for few weeks, so I moved my setup for an 8 hours drive; protected equipment, original boxings and foams.. you know the song. Had no '' noticeable '' shocks during the road.

Once I connected my setup here... my RME started to behave in weird ways;
i.e; I could open a simple .wav file from the File Explorer and hear very brief high pitched spikes, glitches.

When I start clicking on mostly any application, such as Google Chrome, the playback starts to lose control and then audio starts going ON - OFF - ON - OFF - ON - OFF. About 2 times per seconds, very precise cuts like a metronome.
I do not know the term, but audio starts chopping and the only way to get a proper audio is to reboot the card. Then it ends up being ok for the next 20 seconds.

When I explained the problem to RME supports, the man though about Clocking Issue // Power Supply problems.
IT RANG A BELL because we had a big storm around Montreal / Quebec region, and I had power shutdown while my gear was open. But did not noticed anything wrong when it was back on.   

So from my hometown, I started to troubleshoot: - Try different USB cable // Try different Power Supply Cable // Try different power outlet since '' maybe '' this house could not provide enough power for the card to work properly... who knows - desperate.

Then I had friends who had sound cards I could borrow for a test; I needed to believe this problem would also occur on these card because why would a Fireface break like this ?? ----- and there it was; the other card was a Fireface UC, installed the proper driver, and everything worked properly.

(This cant be true!! - I have to test my UFX II on an other computer)

So here I was, testing the UFX II on an other computer in the house... 2012 ish Alienware, quite clean and barely used. Installed UFXs Driver ( which is the driver_madiface_win_09747.zip download content on RME website )
And steams came out of my ears; the UFX had ZERO bugs on the other computer.

So I started to have weird hopes on my UFX and started pointing at corruptions between my computer and the drivers.
My TotalMix FX works super fine with the borrowed soundcard ( the Fireface UC ) -- But starts glitching at the same time with the card when I select my UFX II as Playback.

**** I do not need to have Cubase Open to make it go crazy, it goes crazy when it feels like it ****
**** I did reboots - I did disable / enable usb ports and tried different ones ****

Weird facts: I can play a game on STEAM for hours before it starts going crazy. But when I ask the card to playback more than one thing; it goes crazy.

Guesses I heard:
- Computer Powersupply had a shock from the drive, cant give enough power to the RME ? ( sounds hairpulled )
- Corrupted communication between UFX and this very computer ?
- Wrong uninstallation of the drivers ?
- UFX Powersupply burned from an electric shock during the storm... making it work halfway


I can not make business with this situation. Thank you all for reading this topic and giving any hints that comes in mind!

Thank you very much and wish you a beautiful time

Re: RME DRIVERS - Possible Corruptions ? (UFX II USB) Win10

** Since this is a very long topic I will try to make the short version **

UFX II - Windows 10

Playback started to chop and glitch after 2 years of working flawlessly
Tried an other soundcard ------ worked perfectly.
Tried my subject soundcard (UFX II) on an other computer ------ worked perfectly???

Trashed/Uninstalled drivers and install fresh again ----- still have the issue on my main computer.
Played games on my main computer ---- works well until I tell my computer to do an other action at the same time, such as playing a simple audio files. (multiple playback tasks seems to mess with it )

Help the poor guy!
Have a nice day

Re: RME DRIVERS - Possible Corruptions ? (UFX II USB) Win10

Hello!

Did you try to set WDM Devices to "0" ? (and test with ASIO driver only)

RME Gear: Digiface USB, HDSP 9632

4 (edited by ramses 2022-05-26 12:51:13)

Re: RME DRIVERS - Possible Corruptions ? (UFX II USB) Win10

Re-Edited, please re-read (12:43)

Dear Vincent,
not so nice problem, maybe MetalHeadKeys, me or others can help you on this forum.

Maybe its a problem of settings or something screwed up with your Windows installation, because the UFX II works on another system and another recording interface (UC) works on your computer.

If you have a 2nd SSD then you could quickly perform a new installation of Windows, minimum of chipset and mainboard drivers and only a few applications for testing ? By this you could easily exclude everything bad which can happen to an operating system in terms of screwed up settings.

Important: before you make further changes to your system it's advised to make a backup to be able to come back to this state at any time. I do not trust Windows internal tools. I made very good experience with Macrium Reflect Home. I would get the commercial, not the free version, because then restores will be faster by the rapid delta restore feature, to restore only the altered blocks on SSD which speeds up things dramatically. For me it takes e.g. only about 15 minutes to come back to the state of a few days before even though my 1TB SSD is nearly full. And it reduces the wear on SSDs if only altered blocks need to be re-written. https://www.macrium.com/products/home. You can save money if you align with some friends and to get the 4-pac, at the end you get 2 licenses for free by this cutting costs in half.

It would be interesting to know, what are the settings of the RME driver for UFX II and UC on this system, whether there are differences in the configuration. Please post a screenshot of driver settings for UFX II and UC. Here you can read, how to post pictures on forum if you are not familiar with the procedure: https://www.tonstudio-forum.de/blog/ent … rum-en-de/. In short, place picture to a cloud provider like Dropbox, get the URL to access it, copy URL to here and enclose it in img-tags.

By this screenshots I would like to check:
- Is the UFX II properly set to be clock master, clock source "internal".
- For how many I/O ports you create WDM devices
- Settings for ASIO buffersize.

Regarding ASIO buffersize (which also has impact on the WDM part of the RME driver):
Does the problem go away or gets better when using higher values, e.g. 256, 512, 1024 (@44.1 kHz)?

Did you ever check for the occurrance of USB transport errors in the RME driver settings ? Check manual ch 40.3. Only if the RME driver settings window is open, CRC check are being performed. Do you see any CRC errors? Especially when audible problems occurr?

Does the issue happen only with applications that use the WDM driver (you mentioned gaming) or does the problem also happen when using applications using the ASIO driver?

I regard the proposal from MetalHeadKeys as important to set WDM devices in driver settings to 0 and to check whether the issue comes back even if you use only the ASIO (not the WDM or Windows) driver.

You mentioned: "Weird facts: I can play a game on STEAM for hours before it starts going crazy. But when I ask the card to playback more than one thing; it goes crazy."
Please detail what you mean by "playback more that one thing": what application(s), what driver do they use, the RME driver (ASIO or WDM) or whether they use a Microsoft driver.

Do you have test cases which trigger the problem quite fast so that it's easier to see whether a change of settings has positive impact ? And please describe your test cases what triggers the issue fast.

What are the energy settings of your system, do you use high performance or ultimate performance (needs to be enabled):
https://www.howtogeek.com/368781/how-to … indows-10/
In short: powercfg -duplicatescheme e9a42b02-d5df-448d-aa00-03f14749eb61

BR Ramses
UFX+, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1650v4, Win10Pro21H2, Cub12Pro

Re: RME DRIVERS - Possible Corruptions ? (UFX II USB) Win10

MetalHeadKeys // Ramses
Thank you for your replies, I was not expecting such quick answers.

Let me elaborate the best I can
--------------------------------------------------

You both made a mention about setting WDM device to << 0 >>.
Seems like a good test I did not think of since I am nearly new with RMEs.
I did turn the WDM to ZERO and opened Cubase; and used the proper Audio Driver for my UFX ii

Unfortunately, the problem still remained.
--------------------------------------------------

Ramses:
Is the UFX II properly set to be clock master, clock source "internal"?
What are your settings for ASIO buffersize?
Is it better when using higher values for ASIO buffersize, e.g. 256, 512, 1024 (@44.1 kHz)?

Yes, the clock source is internal, I always had my buffer to 1024, even went to 2048 for desperate tests.
I also did the tests with different sample rates. No luck on this one.
--------------------------------------------------

The backup card : Fireface UC, has a different driver, so few settings are unavailable on this one. But I tried to << copy >> as much as possible;  internal clocking, WDM devices, same sample rate. etc...

And I have to mention; I did not stack or daisy chained the gear with others, no SPDIF, no ADAT used. All of this is strickly out of the box; usb to the computer, and 2 genelecs attached to it. Nice and easy.
-------------------------------------------------

Ramses:
You mentioned: "Weird facts: I can play a game on STEAM for hours before it starts going crazy. But when I ask the card to playback more than one thing; it goes crazy."
Please detail what you mean by "playback more that one thing": what application(s), what driver do they use, the RME driver (ASIO or WDM) or whether they use a Microsoft driver.

All of the other applications goes with WDM Device, all pointing to the first pair of analog out. (ANALOG 1-2).
I worked like this for about 2 years without any issues.
The other apps in question are simply Google Chrome, discord, video games, Groove Music (the simple audio file reader with windows)
So my word << playback >> in this situation simply is, when I open any Apps or audio files that would use by default the WDM device (or the ASIO for the DAWs). So at the end, when I ask sound to be played from different apps at the same time - Say; youtube, while having discord on, and opening a .wav with Groove Music; the more I demand, the closer it get to go crazy.
------------------------------------------------

These are really not proper terms; but this is what I could understand when I realized I could play a game with almost no problem until I pop a browser or ask anything else to the computer.    In other words; Everything became FRAGILE and I can not put the finger on the problem.

I simply moved my setup to an other house, no settings change.
Saying this made me add this one: I did understand that the WIFI was a new one.
So yes, WIFI was turned off -- rebooted -- tried again on a fresh boot with WIFI off.
No changes.
---------------------------------------------------

Ramses:
What are the energy settings of your system, do you use high performance or ultimate performance (needs to be enabled):
https://www.howtogeek.com/368781/how-to … indows-10/
In short: powercfg -duplicatescheme e9a42b02-d5df-448d-aa00-03f14749eb61

I am on High Performance, although never saw about the << hidden >> Ultimate performance.
I will try the procedure; but I doubt the victorious result since I worked without knowing about this. Thanks !!
---------------------------------------------------

Ramses:
Did you ever check for the occurrance of USB transport errors in the RME driver settings ? Check manual ch 40.3. Only if the RME driver settings window is open, CRC check are being performed. Do you see any CRC errors? Especially when audible problems occurr?
It starts like this:
USB Diagnosis - I 0 I -
0 crc5/16 err / 0.0min

When glitches goes by, only changes with the number here: USB Diagnosis - I (number) I -
from 0 to 100ish.... and then goes to 200ish etc...
BUT ---- i noticed that when the real audio chops begin: it says: USB Diagnosis Fifo error

I will make some research on Fifo errors from now on. ---- (5min later) ---- Fifo seems to be a good lead.
Any quick fix on this one ?  I am hearing things about GPUs, BIOS with jumpers and all... It seems to be a long road of blind tests.
---------------------------------------------------

AND LAST BUT NOT LEASTS: Spitting on Windows installation.
This is my most desperate test... I know this puny one. Yes I think wiping is a good << I give up >> way to try to fix a problem. I would like to keep this one for the end before I try to get the card checked.
--- What if ---- : What if my drivers uninstallation were not made properly. I used to be a mac user but now that I am on windows, I generally go with the << Add & Uninstall Program >> --- select everything that says RME, and Uninstall.
Although, I am aware that little RME cockroaches still remain in the computer here and there, since after I install fresh, my settings are all there.

When I installed on an other computer, it was a blank piece of TotalMix FX. And everything worked. Could it be a problem related to driver *( which was where my mind broke on the first place, explaining the title of this thread )*
Possible Corruption with drivers.

----------------------------------------------------
Again - thanks for reading me. Researches are going deeper with your help. I can't help but feel << not alone >> now that I am a Forum Enjoyer ! lol

But seriously, these are crisis time at work and you guys give good hints and I am very grateful for that.

6 (edited by ramses 2022-05-26 15:02:38)

Re: RME DRIVERS - Possible Corruptions ? (UFX II USB) Win10

You need to get rid of USB transport errors, maybe a different USB port does better, which leads me to the next questions:

What USB port did you use when connecting the UC, when all was fine as you said, see list of ports/screenshot below.
Is this the same USB cable and port that you use now for the UFX II?

You have the following external USB connections on your system, according to information on geizhals.de:
https://geizhals.de/msi-mpg-z490-gaming … 88423.html it has the following USB ports:

USB connections extern:
    1x USB-C 3.2 (20Gb/s, ASM3241)
    1x USB-A 3.1 (10Gb/s, Z490)
    4x USB-A 3.0 (5Gb/s)       (assumption: most likely also from Z490 chipset)
    2x USB-A 2.0 (480Mb/s)   (assumption: most likely also from Z490 chipset)

Hint: I would concentrate on using/trying the ports coming from chipset (see above marked boldface) starting with the 4 USB3 ports, then the USB 3.1 port and finally to use one of the USB2 ports which are usually used for mouse and keyboard. You can connect mouse or keyboard to any of the other USB3 ports to make one of the USB2 ports free.

To give you some guidance, these are the ports on the back, I gave them a description to make it easier to you to identify them:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/y45lsxm47vmc7n2/2022-05-26%20MSI%20MPG%20Z490%20Gaming%20Edge%20WiFi.jpg?dl=1

Or are you using one of the internal connectors, a slot plate with USB connections connected to the internal ports on the mainboard or connected to USB ports on the case of your PC?

USB connections intern:
    1x USB-C 3.0 Key-A Header (5Gb/s)
    1x USB 3.0 Header (5Gb/s, 2x USB 3.0)
    2x USB 2.0 Header (480Mb/s, 4x USB 2.0)

If changing of USB ports does not lead to a solution, quick check please whether this is perhaps system load depenend or whether the CRC errors also happen on an IDLE (not loaded) system.

Please perform this check:

Please restart your system, wait 1-2 min after login until CPU activity goes down and all applications and services started.

Open RME driver settings to start CRC checks. Now please write down number of CRC errors:
- after 5 min on an IDLE system (1 min after login, no applications started, no mouse activity) only driver settings opened
- after further 5 min using only an audio player
- after further 5 min working with your DAW

Finally post a screenshot of the (still opened) driver settings windows with the final counter values.
Hint: do not close the driver settings window while doing this, as this would reset the counter values.

Regarding new installation:

If the above steps do not give any positive results I would
- either try with a separate USB3 PCIe card to fully isolate the UFX II from the rest of your USB infrastructure of your system and other connected USB devices or
- recommend a new installation to an additional SSD to fully exclude any other side effects of your system.

Maybe some improvements in HW / setup:

A good PCIe USB3 card is this: https://www.sonnettech.com/product/alle … 4port.html
It has a proven FL1100 chip that works very well for the UFX+ in USB3 mode.
I would guess that it works also well in USB2 compatibility mode.
Also nice is that the drivers that are already included in Win10 and use the more efficient working MSIs (message shared interrupts, see https://blog.sasken.com/message-signale … ver-intx).

If you need/want quality USB cables, the Lindy Cromo line cables are very well:
https://www.lindy.co.uk/cables-adapters … ine-p11345

BR Ramses
UFX+, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1650v4, Win10Pro21H2, Cub12Pro