• Registered: 2008-10-21
  • Posts: 57

Topic: Crossroads: Advice on upgrade / setup strategy

Dear all,

maybe, someone can give me advice on how to handle this (some history ahead): After 10+ years on my iMac i7, I just ordered a Mac studio which will arrive around the end of July. Central parts of my music studio have to be exchanged or upgraded. My FF800 has served me well for almost 15 years now, it is incredibly rock solid, and RME’s driver support is nothing short of amazing!

However, after browsing through these forums for a while, I need to think hard how to play this:

  • Firewire access still seems to work under Monterey (which I wanted for my new Mac, that’s why I bought it before Ventura - just to skip the first months of issues with macOS 13.x)

  • However, it seems to be an incredible hassle with driver installation in Recovery mode which might or might not work or crash with the next sub release or whatever.

  • Hence, using the new DriverKit drivers (now beta 4.04) from the start could be an option - just what Apple wants.

  • This means though that I can’t use my trusty old FF800 no longer via Firewire, AND I have to buy a new interface (plan: FF800 > ADAT > Babyface Pro FS) AND I only get 8 straight analog inputs for my hardware synths which feels like a misuse of a routing monster like the FF800 AND the beta drivers will give me a bumpy start AND if I mis-configure the FF800’s stand alone mode, I won’t have the Mac to make changes.

Now what? Any ideas or advice on how to proceed? Should I try to install the old type of drivers and simply hope for them to work for another year or so until I switch to Ventura+?

Or should I rather make the hard cut with the future-proof driver type and a new Babyface, but weeks or months of hassle because of the beta drivers?

Considering that the Babyface is very hard to come by these days, I might have chosen the wrong time for my switch, but that’s how it is.

Any ideas or realistic consolation („Just use the FF800, it works greaaaaaat under M1 / Monterey!“) would be wonderful. wink

Thanks and best regards,

Christian

2 Reply by ramses (edited by ramses 2022-06-19 13:39:27)

  • ramses
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  • Registered: 2012-10-14
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Re: Crossroads: Advice on upgrade / setup strategy

Hi Christian,

I would sell the firewire based FF800 as long as firewire is still supported. Then you can still get a reasonable price on the second hand market to counter finance a current USB based recording interface.

If you would use the FF800 yourself up to the very end, you may end up getting nothing at all for it, whether in the event of a possible defect or if Firewire would at a certain point of time no longer be supported. RME driver doesn't help alone it also needs support for Firewire in the operating system (at least for Windows this is the case, for Apple most likely as well).

After that, you will have many years of peace with the new equipment.

You didn't mention a budget. I would not buy the recording interface too small in any case. BBF Pro FS only if it must be really small and compact (mobile). Otherwise UCX II, UFX II and UFX+ would be the best choice.
If necessary, it can be supplemented with an ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, if you want to have all the features for monitoring (via speakers or headphones).

Regarding product selection, in case you are interested:
In this blog article I provide an Excel where you can compare the different recording interfaces for USB/Firewire/TB:
The blog article: https://www.tonstudio-forum.de/blog/Ent … B-MADIfac/
The direct link to the Excel: https://www.tonstudio-forum.de/attachme … 4-08-xlsx/

Here you can find information about the integration of an ADI-2 Pro into your setup:
https://www.tonstudio-forum.de/blog/Ent … our-Setup/

Some information about the different models of ADI-2 DAC/Pro
https://www.tonstudio-forum.de/blog/Ent … ses-EN-DE/

Regarding ADI-2 Pro, an advice. In any case I would base everything on a recording interface with all of TotalMix FX capabilities (routing, loopback, etc). The ADI-2 Pro can be added at any time later.

P.S.: my current setup and use cases: https://www.tonstudio-forum.de/blog/Ent … -DURec-DE/

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub13
  • Registered: 2008-10-21
  • Posts: 57

Re: Crossroads: Advice on upgrade / setup strategy

Hey, thanks very much for the advice and the suggestions. The Excel is great!

Since I also have an iPad Pro M1, I'd be very interested in mobile work. Therefore, BFPFS seems very capable, is Class Compliant, and maybe there's even hope for a real driver with iPadOS 16 one day, which seems to allow drivers for iPads.

Also, my hardware synths (and they're only synths, no guitar tracks, hardly any vocal work) are quite old and rarely used, soft synths are much more capable now and easier to handle. Hence, my hardware will be getting smaller, fewer individual line outputs will be used, the studio will be slicker and more consolidated.

Although the UCX II looks like a great replacement for an FF800, it might be (expensive) overkill, even though it's also CC. But would I take it with me on vacation? BF seems easier to handle on the road.

Of course, I also thought about going MOTU or something like that. But driver support at RME is much more convincing, and the products come closer to what I want.

Best regards,

Christian

4 Reply by sbcrikey (edited by sbcrikey 2022-06-20 14:52:13)

  • Registered: 2021-12-30
  • Posts: 151

Re: Crossroads: Advice on upgrade / setup strategy

Hi Christian,

I own both the BBF Pro Fs and the UCXII. You won't regret either device. I first bought the Babyface and was super happy with it. Then I did a little more research and found out about DuREC on the UCXII yikes

At that point the plan was to exchange the BBF for the UCXII but I'd already fallen in love with the metering, compact and solid housing of the Babyface so I decided to keep both! To have standalone recording as a backup to laptop/PC recording was just too enticing to pass up on the UCXII. I love both interfaces. The BBF gets used mostly at home when doing small editing tasks or listening to youtube and Spotify while the UCXII is what I take out for field work.

If you know you won't have any future needs for the additional ins/outs of the UCXII you could just get the BBF and put the 500 bucks you saved towards a Ferrofish unit for an additional 8 channels of ADAT down the road. But if you decide to go with the UCXII, my recommendation is to get the ARC controller as well because a desktop encoder is so nice to have.

Cheers!

-Steve

  • ramses
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  • Registered: 2012-10-14
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Re: Crossroads: Advice on upgrade / setup strategy

sbcrikey wrote:

Hi Christian,
I own both the BBF Pro Fs and the UCXII. You won't regret either device. I first bought the Babyface and was super happy with it. Then I did a little more research and found out about DuREC on the UCXII yikes

Regarding "more research", I posted a summary about the changes / benefits in contrast to the old UCX model here:

https://forum.rme-audio.de/viewtopic.php?id=33222

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub13

6 Reply by vinark (edited by vinark 2022-06-20 16:01:47)

  • vinark
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  • Registered: 2009-06-05
  • Posts: 2,738

Re: Crossroads: Advice on upgrade / setup strategy

If your hardware synths are not used that much and never need to be recorded simultaneously, a simple analogue hardware mixer connected to inputs 3 and 4 of a Babyface would work very nicely. No need to have 8 12 16 or whatever ad converters if 2 or 4 will do. Also it is very easy to get levels right, some eq and even some FX on the synths.

Vincent, Amsterdam
https://soundcloud.com/thesecretworld
BFpro fs, 2X HDSP9652 ADI-8AE, 2X HDSP9632
  • Registered: 2008-10-21
  • Posts: 57

Re: Crossroads: Advice on upgrade / setup strategy

Thanks, nice ideas!

The most expensive one is the extra UCX, don't tempt me, man! ;-)

Maybe I can even do without the mixer: my Korg workstation has analog inputs and an optical output. I could send my JD-800 into the workstation and send both into the BF's optical input. BF Input 3/4 are for Virus TI analog out, one mono microphone input and one mono Bass Station input, and I'm set.

This is a cable orgy, tho. Will see how it suits me. Quite a few more options, if it doesn't.

Thanks for all your input so far... I just ordered a Babyface Pro FS, so I can update its firmware on the old Mac before the new one arrives. Until then, the beta driver may be further ahead, so I don't have to bother with the kernel extension.

Best regards,

Christian

8 Reply by Christian Baum (edited by Christian Baum 2022-06-24 17:27:46)

  • Registered: 2008-10-21
  • Posts: 57

Re: Crossroads: Advice on upgrade / setup strategy

First step is done: Today, a new Babyface Pro FS arrived at my doorstep in its cute little reed basket (or something like that).

Now, that was easy: Unpacked, driver installed (still on my old iMac / Catalina), Babyface plugged in - works! Incredibly easy!

XLR outputs connected to my Adam active speakers, Bass Station 2 into Input 2 (Input 1 kept free for Mic), optical out goes into my age old Logitech surround system, in TotalMix connected as "Speaker B" and switchable without even reading the manual.

Issues hopefully solved over the weekend:

- Bass Station kills my Adams, no chance to keep this TotalMix channel at 0 dB and not destroying it all. Maybe set to Mic input or something? Gain is DEADLY, it seems.
- It is unclear to me if I can use phones outputs as independent line outs, e.g. 6.3 mm for actual phones and 3.5 mm for some line output.
- optical cable from my Korg workstation to SPDIF in at the BF is too short. Dunno if this will work. wink

Two letdowns so far: I can't understand why RME didn't make the mic inputs as Mic/Line/Instr combi sockets. To get the Bass Station as a line input, I had to use a 6.3 mm line to XLR cable which is strange. Why oh why?
For the time being, I use regular mic XLR cables from the XLR outputs to the Adams. While the male XLR parts nicely click into the Adams, the female part does NOT click into the BF. With a medium pull, you can disconnect the cable. Sniff.

But anyway, never has it been so easy to connect half a studio to such a nice unit. Now for some tests in Logic Pro X... and hopefully, this all works as nicely on the Mac studio to come.

Best regards,

Christian

  • Registered: 2008-10-21
  • Posts: 57

Re: Crossroads: Advice on upgrade / setup strategy

Okay, for once, I now have switched from +19 dB to +4 dB on the bottom. Now, the line input doesn't kill the Adams as much. Apart from that, I naturally was not used to use the audio interface as my monitor controller! Before, the Fireface went to a Mackie Big Knob and THEN into the Adams. Now, Main Output faders are my monitor faders and cannot be at 0 dB, obviously. Gotta get used to that first.

So my main issue has been resolved after 10 more minutes. smile