Topic: USB error diagnosis - where should the zeros be?

Hello folks,

New UFX ii user here having migrated from a long time use of a FF400.

I am unfortunately having drop outs and errors and am experimenting with cables, usb ports etc.

Regarding the USB diagnosis I am a little unsure where I need to see the zero to ensure me that I am getting error free operation.

I have already found that if I start to get a number in between the  |   |  then I get a drop in the audio. Sometimes this spirals to a Fifo error. I think I have managed to reduce these so that I have a zero in between those two characters.

It always says 0 CRC 5/16 err to the lower left of that. Should there be zeros there too? I have looked in the manual but it doesn't go into any detail here.

Finally, is the "min" just a timer for how long the data connection has been in place?

Many thanks

2 (edited by ramses 2022-06-30 10:16:51)

Re: USB error diagnosis - where should the zeros be?

EDITED: pls reread

CRC check is running as long / only if you keep the driver settings window open.
There should be zero CRC errors or this indicates a transport problem.
Typically being caused by bad or too long cables.
USB2 cables may be 5m long, but I would try then with shorter cables for a test to exclude that, e.g. 2m.

I made very good experience with Lindy premium cables which are (at least for USB3) up to 3 times shielded.

But maybe the error could also result because of the USB port that you are using.
Check all USB ports and preferrably use those ports coming from chipset.
In USB3 (which is not the case for you) there can be issues with e.g. some ASMedia USB3 chipsets.
With USB2 I am not sure whether there are similar issues.
But I would preferrably use USB ports from chipset.

An alternative is to use an add-on USB3 card (maybe the proven Sonnet cards with FL1100 chipset).
They are backward compatible to USB2.
They use a driver (win10 has already a working driver included) which uses more efficient MSI (message signalled) interrupts.

You should also check your BIOS settings to remove any Energy saving.
And in Windows you should also use energy settings for "full power".
There is one setting which is hidden from Windows Workstation version (ultimate performance).

You can also try to measure DPC latency on your system.

See the many threads in this forum where I was involved.
Use extended forum search, search for ramses and the following keywords:
DPC OR Latency OR BIOS

You will find many references also background information what DPC latencies mean here and there.

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub13

Re: USB error diagnosis - where should the zeros be?

Thanks for the quick reply, it is appreciated.

So to confirm am I correct that my diagnosis numbers are showing no errors then? When the drop outs and noises did happen there was a number in between those  |   |  and eventually a FIFO error.

Yes I spent a long time on this forum and found many of your old posts which were helping me and giving me ideas to try.

I have run the various latency checkers and analysis tools and ebverything looks well. This system ran two FF400s very well indeed. I just hit some bad problems when I switched to the UFX ii, but searching on the forum I can see a few people have had issues that can be hard to track down.


I have ordered a Sonnet Technologies USB3-4PM-E Allegro PCI-e Card (4-Port, Allegro Type A USB 3.2 4-PORT) so that the UFXii can have its own port and hopefully this will help.

I think initially my problem was mostly down to my USB cable length and the quality of the cable. I have ordered some Lindy cables also.

It seems to be stable so far now I have moved my PC to within 2 metres but I really need it to be 4 metres away.
I have seen suggestions of powered USB hubs to resfresh the signal but it seems that some will work and some won't.

I think I saw from one of your previous posts that you are using a Lindy Cromo 5 metres cable with success?
Is this with the UFX ii? Is it a USB 2 or USB 3 cable? I'm not entirely sure if I can use a USB 3 cable with the UFX ii or if there is even any benefit?

Many thanks

Re: USB error diagnosis - where should the zeros be?

Thanks again for the extra info.

I'm sorry to ask again, but I'm still not clear on that "0 CRC 5/16 err" in my diagnosis window.
Is that telling me I got an error?
I wondered if it was only the number in between the |   | that I was to focus on?

Thanks again

5 (edited by woodnut 2022-06-30 11:11:41)

Re: USB error diagnosis - where should the zeros be?

I just found your reply on this forum to the same question where you said

"This is not an error, the name of the counter has been updated / "fixed" from "crc5" to "crc5/16. Didn't you wonder already, that the counter is permanently stuck at 16".

So it is indeed the counter in between the |   | that I am to monitor and also the zero in front of the "crc5/16".

Re: USB error diagnosis - where should the zeros be?

For the UFX+ I see here 5 counters ...

https://www.dropbox.com/s/d30bu444p5aitya/2022-06-30%2014_15_27-MADIface%20CRC%20counters.jpg?dl=1

MC told already that it doesn't matter which of the counters actually increase, all should be zero.

The UFX II is a 30ch interface, the manual tells you on the 1st page that it uses USB2.
USB2 supports cable lengths up to 5m according to standards.

Whatever USB3 port you choose, the connector will connect to the USB2 compatible pins / lines of the plug and USB3 interfaces are all USB2 compatible.

But could still be a chipset/driver issue, therefore I recommended USB ports from chipset or to at least use an aditional USB PCIe card with USB3 chips, that are known to work well and have good drivers in the hope that it works also better for USB2.

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub13

Re: USB error diagnosis - where should the zeros be?

so what is the 5 and the 16 shown above as 5/16?
Sorry, I'm trying to follow this and not sure I am.

Re: USB error diagnosis - where should the zeros be?

Thanks Ramses for the further clarification. My UFXii diagnosis display looks a little different to that but perhaps that is due to differences between the products.

It looks like for the UFX ii diagnosis there is no reading for number two as indicated in your image above. Mine doesn't show any numbers either side of that |   |, just a zero in the middle and that is the one that is giving me trouble. When the issues begin that number starts changing. If I have understood correctly this is the USB transport so I guess thats where I need to focus.

Using a shorter cable pretty much eliminates the issue at 64 samples when leaving it recording a single channel for half an hour as a test. At 32 samples I am getting a 2 or 3 in that middle number and sometimes a complete fail (FIFO error).

The PCI USB 3 card I ordered has the FL1100 chipset, maybe it will help along with a Lindy Crono USB cable. My motherboard (MSI Z370-A PRO - I8700K CPU) has an Intel Chipset however so it should be OK in line with the USB chipset guidance on the RME website.

9 (edited by ramses 2022-06-30 15:43:10)

Re: USB error diagnosis - where should the zeros be?

Wallace wrote:

so what is the 5 and the 16 shown above as 5/16?
Sorry, I'm trying to follow this and not sure I am.

Simply different types of crc check ... see e.g. Wikipedia which types of CRC checks exist.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyclic_redundancy_check

According to RME any failing CRC check is bad.

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub13

10 (edited by Wallace 2022-06-30 15:51:14)

Re: USB error diagnosis - where should the zeros be?

Thanks for the link.

So ‘5’ is one type of check and ‘16’ is another.
Therefore 5/16 in the reported data shown above in post No6 is As expected and nothing to be concerned about?

Asking because I have exactly the same numbers in my UFXii driver screen.
Thx

Re: USB error diagnosis - where should the zeros be?

crc5, crc16, crc32 are the names/types of CRC check and the number in front of it is the error counter where 0 is no error.

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub13

Re: USB error diagnosis - where should the zeros be?

Perfect! Thank you.