you cannot go digitally above 0dbfs. you can get intersample peaks that go above 0dbfs that get created in the d/a stage. i guess it would depend on how well your users d/a works as to how that distorted d/a conversion sounds. not sure how many speakers have limiters these days, but some do, so why would you risk it? doesn't really make sense.

i cant see how getting +0.1dbfs? (or presumably less) at the risk of your track having harsh clipping on a some systems could be seen as worth the risk.

also note that on any streaming platform that you might be selling your tracks on, a rule of thumb is at least -1db of true peak limiting to prevent distortion during conversion to lossy formats.

im also on Ableton live (11.1.6)

i tried the following experiment:

-load up a drum loop and turn up the gain to +6db on the fader, the master fader goes well into the red on the master fader

-make sure no plugins are on the master fader, limiters compressors etc

-export the loop to wav

-start a new session in Ableton, drag the previously exported loop into Ableton

-look at the waveform and see that a huge ammount peaks are squared off at 0dbfs, and there is really harsh digital clipping

-play the loop and check the peak meter on the master fader

-peaks at a maximum of +0.05dbfs

those +0.05dbfs are intersample peaks

I have no idea how you exported a file that can then be reimported and show a peak of +3dbfs -- it literally shouldn't be possible.

feel free to upload an exported wav file that peaks at +3dbfs, I'd love to see it.

regarding a "clipping algorithm" afaik, there isn't one, if a sample is +2dbfs in the daw, it just gets exported as 0dbfs, which results in a squaring off of the wave form.

"and then partially reliant on the D/A converters that have to figure out how to translate those peaks to analog signal" -- yes the d/a needs to handle the intersample peaks, but if you have a load of 0dbfs sample points in a row, its just going to sound like 0dbfs -- really nasty clipping.

I would personally just get a good peak limiter and smash it to 0dbfs and turn off "protect intersample peaks" if you wanted to maximise your output. fab filter pro-l has that option. most clubs have decibel limits and, most dj gear has auto volume correction, so that's something to think about also.

limiters like the pro-l can be pushed into limiting distortion which many people say they "like the sound", but no-one likes the sound of digital clipping.

cheers, pops

oh that's interesting MC

would you mind uploading a WAV file that I can see has intersample peaks of +3dbfs?

thanks, pops

that's interesting, when I load the Untitled.wav file into Ableton it shows a peak of 0.0dbfs on my master channel with no limiter on the masterbus. waves true peak meter is showing +2.7dbtp -- I'm still interested how you can get a track above 0dbfs, if MC has some insight into the limiter idea I'd be very interested.

cheers, pops

Yes... so I wonder if "clipping the master" hard is a silly fad, or is there possibly something interesting here that will remain in the future in some form?

The article you point out that it gives you extra brightness from 5-22k, and that's true for all clipping in my experience — in EDM this extra presence can be desirable. It's interesting to see Example 4 (BEGIN TO HOPE, FIDELITY, REGINA SPEKTOR) go up to +1.49 dB because of the percussion.

I guess my question to MC is: How do good vs bad DACs handle ISP differently? Enough that consumers on their phones (or using bad DAC) may notice a difference?

Why do people like the sound of it more than just putting a clipper on the master? Just because it's louder? Or is there something else there in addition to loudness.