1 (edited by spnc 2022-08-27 20:40:33)

Topic: Is the ADI-2 DAC "soundstage 2-dimensional"? And the ADI-2 Pros?

Hi I've been looking to get the ADI-2 (Pro) since I'm producing music and I can't make any compromise when it comes to my sound gear/headphones/headphones amp I've only heard the best things about the ADI-2 from all over the internet and friends. But I wouldn't buy a DAC/AMP that flattens the sound I have from, say, my sound card source. I need something transparent but also not reducing the soundstage like crazy, for mixing purposes I'm sure you understand what I mean. My Lake People G103-S MK2 is actually pretty awesome for the price but I thought I would need to get this RME everyone is raving about. So I've had in my mind to get the ADI-2/4 Pro of course since it looks like it's coming out very soon!

Anyway I accidentally stumbled upon this comment - I don't think he/she's speaking about the Pro, only the entry-level ADI-2 DAC? But since I have never tried either, do the DAC and Pro series share the same soundstage?

And will the ADI-2/4 Pro soundstage sound > "2-dimensional, with little height and depth, more sibilant, more fatiguing and less refined, with harshness, squeal, screech, sqawk, metallic sheen, unnatural, extra distorted and all?" as the author claims (again it's referring to the DAC here I think, but still, is this any true??) It's not alarming me so far since I trust RME but I'd like a second opinion though. Cheers guys!

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/rme-adi … t-17081993

As for the Hugo2, since no-one else has chimed in, I was led to try Hugo2 because of dissatisfaction with the sound from the ADI2-DAC (and the iFi Audio iDAC2). I have owned and used all three together for two years now. The ADI2-DAC has a couple of flaws to my ears. The first is the soundstage which is rather 2-dimensional. It is wide but doesn't have much height and has very little depth to it. The Hugo2 puts the stage in a sphere around your head with better height and much better depth. The second flaw occurs whenever the recording contains any harshness, squeal, screech, sqawk, metallic sheen or undue sibilance. The ADI2-DAC makes it worse and is fatiguing to listen to for those tracks. It makes me want to turn it down or listen to something else. The Hugo2 is far more refined. It doesn't add distortion of its own to what is already distorted. It just sounds natural and unfatiguing because it is far more accurate in time than the RME. You can still hear the flaws in those recordings. They are just not thrown at you in an unpleasant way.

The best I can describe it is that when I first got the Hugo2, I found myself tensing and flinching for faults I was expecting to hear, only for them not to occur. I quickly learned to stop flinching and tensing and just relax knowing that the Hugo2 was not going to offend my ears. I wrote somewhere else (but can't now find it) that the Hugo2 is what I've been waiting 40 years for digital audio to sound like. The ADI2-DAC is still a good and very versatile piece for it's price, but I'm afraid the Hugo2 plays on an altogether loftier plain and is worth every penny of its asking price. Of course if you already have a headphone amp, you could save some by getting the Qutest.

On the subject of USB, neither ADI2-DAC nor Hugo2 are perfect here. Both can be improved by addition of an iPurifier2/3 (disclaimer: I own a bunch of these, other decrapifiers are available but the iFi ones are very good in my experience). I feed my DACs by optical or coaxial where those options are available.

EDIT: one more thing on latency. The ADI2-DAC has a couple of short delay filters - SD Sharp and SD Slow. Be sure to use those. Personally I use both the ADI2-DAC and Hugo2 on optical with the TV and have never had any lipsync issues.

Re: Is the ADI-2 DAC "soundstage 2-dimensional"? And the ADI-2 Pros?

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/rme-adi … t-17082786

i agree with your conclusions about the rme adi-2 fs soundstage. But it is so versatile that is unbeatable ... never heard hugo2 but even compared to chord mojo it feels less 3d dimensional...

Re: Is the ADI-2 DAC "soundstage 2-dimensional"? And the ADI-2 Pros?

What kind of reply do you want by posting BS like this from head-fi.org?

4 (edited by Babaluma 2022-08-28 08:56:20)

Re: Is the ADI-2 DAC "soundstage 2-dimensional"? And the ADI-2 Pros?

Best to get a unit in and try it yourself, rather than relying on some unknown audiophile's POV on the internet. When the 2/4 drops I'll order it immediately and test it in my own studio. If I need to return it, it will be no problem. Only way to really know.

https://musicwall.app/hermetech

5 (edited by KaiS 2022-08-27 23:50:33)

Re: Is the ADI-2 DAC "soundstage 2-dimensional"? And the ADI-2 Pros?

@spnc:
If you are searching for confirmation, better post in a forum you copied that stuff from.


Now my collegial tip, as an audio engineer:

These claims do not stand the test of reality.
In a blind, level matched A/B comparison you will have a hard time finding sound differences between high quality pro audio stuff.

I did that 100’s of times, have a rig handy to do it.

Additionally I have the most valid test in my daily job all the time:
compare the analog original (from musicians playing live) to the recording.
If there was an audible quality difference I would change my equipment.

If these sound differences claimed existed, we would not have classy recordings from former times, when high res equipment was in the far future.

6

Re: Is the ADI-2 DAC "soundstage 2-dimensional"? And the ADI-2 Pros?

Muffin wrote:

What kind of reply do you want by posting BS like this from head-fi.org?

This forum definitely misses a like button...

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME

7 (edited by ramses 2022-08-28 08:32:36)

Re: Is the ADI-2 DAC "soundstage 2-dimensional"? And the ADI-2 Pros?

MC wrote:

This forum definitely misses a like button...

https://forum.rme-audio.de/viewtopic.ph … 16#p191016

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub13

Re: Is the ADI-2 DAC "soundstage 2-dimensional"? And the ADI-2 Pros?

The poster here has just shared a bunch of nonsense, totally irrelevant  to using RMe products and technologies for various audio use cases. This discussion should occur on some other forum , but not here.

WY

CD Transport>optical>RME ADI-2 DAC FS(AKM)>XLR balanced >GLM software>Genelec Monitors 8340A

Re: Is the ADI-2 DAC "soundstage 2-dimensional"? And the ADI-2 Pros?

Alright duly noted, please don't shoot the messenger though it doesn't look good lol

Wasn't aware there was such a 'rule' that external feedback couldn't be commented here

I guess it's pretty hard to form an opinion without trying first hand so I'll do just that (when it's eventually out, until then I/we can only speculate)

Head-fi sounded like a credible source since it has 'Head' and 'fi' in it, oh well my bad haha

10 (edited by KaiS 2022-08-28 13:15:37)

Re: Is the ADI-2 DAC "soundstage 2-dimensional"? And the ADI-2 Pros?

spnc wrote:

...Head-fi sounded like a credible source since it has 'Head' and 'fi' in it, oh well my bad haha

Could be, but it’s the same amount of trolling, hear-say and parroting there like in other places.
You have to pick the pearls and avoid the Hifi-Myth-Traps.

We try to keep this out from here.
Have a look at Klaus Heyne’s Mic Lab forum, that I like very much:
https://repforums.prosoundweb.com/index.php?board=27.0

Klaus is strict: first hand information only.
And he’s all about sound, even subjectively in some way, but no myths and mumbo-jumbo.

Re: Is the ADI-2 DAC "soundstage 2-dimensional"? And the ADI-2 Pros?

SPNC, I rarely take anyone's word for how something sounds as they never tell us how good their own hearing is.  To me this is like a manufacturing claiming a bunch of stuff and not backing it up with specs.  Would you buy anything from that manufacturer?  Probably not.  So take that claim about the ADI as an opinion only and you know what they say about opinions right....;-)

12 (edited by ramses 2022-08-28 17:30:20)

Re: Is the ADI-2 DAC "soundstage 2-dimensional"? And the ADI-2 Pros?

Or if people are not informed about which mistakes to avoid when testing, so that psychoacoustic phenomena do not falsify the test result or make it completely useless and if this mixes with or boosts HiFi myths ...

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub13

13 (edited by spnc 2022-08-28 19:31:43)

Re: Is the ADI-2 DAC "soundstage 2-dimensional"? And the ADI-2 Pros?

Actually the poster came back with additional feedback which is still not helping lol

As a music listener, I would encourage you as a producer to get the RME so that you can more clearly indentify the faults in your product (music) and fix them before they are inflicted on the public.

The RME is not a bad DAC of its type. It was plenty good enough to bring me to tears with the shear musical beauty I was hearing through the RAAL|requisite headphones at Canjam. It enables me to enjoy movies and the music within them on a daily basis. However, when it comes to listening to my music collection for pleasure and enjoying it warts and all without fatigue, the Hugo2 wins hands down.

Anyway, I guess I need to save even more to get the Hugo2 as well (FOMO syndrome), and return the one I like the least, or keep them two for different purposes...

I love/hate the Internet xD

Re: Is the ADI-2 DAC "soundstage 2-dimensional"? And the ADI-2 Pros?

The way its described it sounds like some idiot reviwed the unit with an unsynced clock :-/

ADI-2 DAC, ADI-2 PRO, DigifaceUSB, UCXII, ARC, HEGEL.h80, KEF.ls50, HD650, ie400pro _,.\''/.,_

15 (edited by spnc 2022-08-28 21:48:34)

Re: Is the ADI-2 DAC "soundstage 2-dimensional"? And the ADI-2 Pros?

Happy_amateur wrote:

The way its described it sounds like some idiot reviwed the unit with an unsynced clock :-/

Last one for the road ^^

Not surprised by any of those comments. I am after all just some guy on the internet. I'm also 62 years old and have been listening to hifi equipment since I was 13. I own around 600 CDs worth of music across quite a few genres. I know harshness and distortion when I hear it.

Re: Is the ADI-2 DAC "soundstage 2-dimensional"? And the ADI-2 Pros?

By unsynced clock I mean the signal is synced to wrong sorce. That could produce the artifacts this guy is talking about. RTFM you know or maybe the ADI-2 DAC is just a treath to these ppls world view, its known to happen with some audiophiles

ADI-2 DAC, ADI-2 PRO, DigifaceUSB, UCXII, ARC, HEGEL.h80, KEF.ls50, HD650, ie400pro _,.\''/.,_

Re: Is the ADI-2 DAC "soundstage 2-dimensional"? And the ADI-2 Pros?

There‘s a lot people on a “Can-Jam” type event can screw up on ADI-2.

All the DSP functions activated and misadjusted can make it sound like the worst converter ever.

What I mean- these quotes might be perfectly correct and perfectly wrong at the same time!
People can’t know, they randomly turn the knobs, then go and leave ADI-2 totally screwed up for the next person, who then writes a comment ...

Same cannot happen with a one trick pony type of device.


Used as intended, ADI-2 can be just neutral, faithfully reproducing the original sound, or be a powerful tool to improve the listening experience.

18

Re: Is the ADI-2 DAC "soundstage 2-dimensional"? And the ADI-2 Pros?

Not to mention all the people that hit the mono button on the remote unintentionally, then after weeks complain about a soundstage not as wide as on other DACs...

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME

Re: Is the ADI-2 DAC "soundstage 2-dimensional"? And the ADI-2 Pros?

yuhasz01 wrote:

This discussion should occur on some other forum , but not here.

Not sure if I agree. Ideally such discussions should not occur anywhere at all. Having seen human behavior, that might not ever happen though..

I know harshness and distortion when I hear it.

First step to knowledge is ackowledging one actually doesn't know a lot, and in order to gain knowledge about something easily measurable and falsifiable like this, the scientific method is the only way. Everything else is just guesswork backed by biases.