• Registered: 2022-09-16
  • Posts: 19

Topic: What would cause delayed onset of constant crackles?

I just got a new laptop and am getting constant crackles on a project that ran fine on my previous laptop.  However, the crackles don't start until several minutes after opening the project and they start off with one or two and slowly build until they're pretty constant.  The delay scales with buffer size - larger buffers result in longer delays until the crackles start but once they start they progress until they sound about the same.  So buffer size determines when the crackles start but not the severity of the crackles.

Also, the crackles occur without any indication of audio dropouts on the Cubase ASIO meter.  The meter never shows an overload.

Can anyone think of how I might fix this problem?  Or what could be causing it?

Thanks,

rgames

2 Reply by MC

  • MC
  • MC
  • Administrator
  • Offline
  • From: Germany/Thailand
  • Registered: 2007-04-06
  • Posts: 25,433

Re: What would cause delayed onset of constant crackles?

Check the Settings dialog - USB errors might be shown there, counting up.

There are tons of threads here how to analyze and hopefully fix such effects. Just that with a laptop the possible cures are more limited than on a desktop machine.

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME

MC's Website

  • Registered: 2022-09-16
  • Posts: 19

Re: What would cause delayed onset of constant crackles?

Hi Matthias - yes, there are a huge number of topics related to "crackles" so I wasn't sure where to begin.

But you have pointed me in the right direction, I think: the second number in the "errors" count does, indeed, start increasing as I start to hear the crackles.

So does that mean the USB driver is not performing the data transfer correctly?

That would explain why I'm not seeing any indication of dropouts in the ASIO meter in Cubase.

Any suggestions on how to go about fixing that issue?

Thanks!

  • ramses
  • DAW Mastermind
  • Online
  • From: UTC+1
  • Registered: 2012-10-14
  • Posts: 12,861

Re: What would cause delayed onset of constant crackles?

A selection of postings here: https://forum.rme-audio.de/viewtopic.ph … 04#p186404

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub13
  • Registered: 2022-09-16
  • Posts: 19

Re: What would cause delayed onset of constant crackles?

Hi ramses - thanks for the info.

Here is what I have done so far to address the issue.  Unfortunately none of these actions has an effect.

- Disabled power management features for all USB devices I can find in the Windows device manager
- Disabled many other devices (wireless, onboard audio, Bluetooth, etc.)
- Disabled CPU power management in the BIOS (I think this option disables the C-states but it's not stated that way in the BIOS)
- Confirmed the Babyface works on a different computer
- Confirmed crackles do not occur with onboard audio
- Discovered that the buffer size changes the time at which crackles start (larger buffer = later start) but once the crackles start they're independent of buffer size
- Discovered that the crackles begin much sooner if I have the Nvidia graphics enabled.  They still occur with Nvidia disabled (using only built-in Intel GPU) but they take much longer to appear.

Does anyone else have any suggestions on what to try?

This new laptop is great - it runs my orchestral template basically the same as my desktop - so I'd hate to have to return it because the darn USB won't work with the Babyface...!

Thanks in advance,

rgames

  • ramses
  • DAW Mastermind
  • Online
  • From: UTC+1
  • Registered: 2012-10-14
  • Posts: 12,861

Re: What would cause delayed onset of constant crackles?

What cable are you using (USB2, USB3) and how long is the cable? Did you try all USB2 and USB3 ports of your laptop?

Check whether the RME driver settings dialog shows CRC errors (transport errors over USB).
You need to keep the driver settings window open for the CRC checks to run …

Perform measurements with LatencyMon to see whether you can find spikes.
Best on an idle system without applications, mouse, keyboard activity.
For approx 5-10 min.

After stopping LatencyMon, post a screenshot of the Status Window and the report text.
Also screenshot from the drivers tab with column Highest execution time [ms] sorted from highest to lowest value.

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub13
  • Registered: 2022-09-16
  • Posts: 19

Re: What would cause delayed onset of constant crackles?

One other bit of info - I get error-free performance when I run the laptop on battery.  I get the errors only when plugged in.

I don’t think electrical noise would be an issue - everything is powered through the laptop (i.e. no potential for ground loops).  I guess maybe there could be something about the charging circuit that is driving noise into the transfer but it seems it would be defective to the point of not charging if that were the case.  But I’m not sure about that.

So there must be something about the high-power state that adversely affects the USB transfers.  Odd, because it’s usually low-power states that cause issues.

Any ideas what that might be?

Thanks

  • ramses
  • DAW Mastermind
  • Online
  • From: UTC+1
  • Registered: 2012-10-14
  • Posts: 12,861

Re: What would cause delayed onset of constant crackles?

Sorry no idea.

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub13
  • vinark
  • DAW Mastermind
  • Offline
  • Registered: 2009-06-05
  • Posts: 2,738

Re: What would cause delayed onset of constant crackles?

Check for bios or driver updates for the laptop manufacturer! And try to disable the power management software that came with the laptop, just stop it from taskmanager.

Vincent, Amsterdam
https://soundcloud.com/thesecretworld
BFpro fs, 2X HDSP9652 ADI-8AE, 2X HDSP9632
  • Registered: 2022-09-16
  • Posts: 19

Re: What would cause delayed onset of constant crackles?

Yes, BIOS and drivers are all up-to-date.  I’m running a clean install of Windows so there shouldn’t be any manufacturer software on there.  But maybe they snuck it in through some update, so I’ll dig around to see if there’s something there.  I agree power management features must be the culprit.  I’ll start tweaking things and see if I discover anything.

Is there any way to tell what’s being changed when I plug in the computer?

The ASIO meter in Cubase drops significantly when I plug it in.  So whatever it’s doing it happens quickly and consistently.  I just don’t know what that is.  Presumably a lot of it is handled in the BIOS.

Thanks

  • Registered: 2022-09-16
  • Posts: 19

Re: What would cause delayed onset of constant crackles?

I think I figured it out - it was clearly related to changes between plugged in and running on battery so I started tweaking all of those parameters in BIOS and in Windows.  It appears to be related to the "PCI Express Link State Power Management" settings in the Windows power plan: that must be set to "Maximum Power Savings".  Mine was set to "Maximum Power Savings" on battery and "Off" when plugged in.

When I changed it to "Maximum Power Savings" for plugged in, the crackles disappeared and the CRC errors remained at 0.

So far that appears to have worked.

  • ramses
  • DAW Mastermind
  • Online
  • From: UTC+1
  • Registered: 2012-10-14
  • Posts: 12,861

Re: What would cause delayed onset of constant crackles?

If it was the change between the setting in both power profiles ... Wouldn't it be better to set both to no power savings to get the best possible performance for transmission via the bus? That won't make the world of difference in consumption.

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub13
  • Registered: 2022-09-16
  • Posts: 19

Re: What would cause delayed onset of constant crackles?

That is the common wisdom but no, the crackles went away when the power savings were set to maximum.

I guess there's a lesson in there about common wisdom smile

  • vinark
  • DAW Mastermind
  • Offline
  • Registered: 2009-06-05
  • Posts: 2,738

Re: What would cause delayed onset of constant crackles?

rgames1 wrote:

That is the common wisdom but no, the crackles went away when the power savings were set to maximum.

I guess there's a lesson in there about common wisdom smile

I would expect a bug in the bios or drivers that inverted the function of the setting or just plain weird lol

Vincent, Amsterdam
https://soundcloud.com/thesecretworld
BFpro fs, 2X HDSP9652 ADI-8AE, 2X HDSP9632
  • Registered: 2022-09-16
  • Posts: 19

Re: What would cause delayed onset of constant crackles?

vinark wrote:
rgames1 wrote:

That is the common wisdom but no, the crackles went away when the power savings were set to maximum.

I guess there's a lesson in there about common wisdom smile

I would expect a bug in the bios or drivers that inverted the function of the setting or just plain weird lol

Yeah I agree it's weird.  I've been setting that power management feature to "off" for ages.

When set to "off" I do see a lower average level and fewer/lower spikes in the Cubase ASIO meter, so it's doing what it's supposed to (I think).  But then the USB transfers don't work.

This is a brand new model Lenovo laptop so I think it's been released with a few bugs remaining...  Real-time performance is not something laptop manufacturers really care about (as far as I can tell).  I had a similar issue with an HP laptop many years ago when NVMe first came out - constant audio dropouts when I booted from the NVMe drive but none when booted from a SATA drive.  They eventually fixed that with a BIOS update, though, so kudos to HP for doing that.  We'll see what Lenovo does.

Cheers,

rgames