1 (edited by Flying Soda 2022-08-28 00:40:05)

Topic: Issues with UFX+ connectivity and others

Hello, I'm writing a bit of a long post with multiple topics about issues that I've been having with my RME products. I'm just hoping to get some answers and to better understand what's going on. I've been fighting some of this for a number of months, as well as trying and failing to access the forums when I've had time, so I really apologize if my frustrations color my writing.

I got a UFX+ a year or so ago, but the chip shortage delayed its arrival to this year. I've been under the assumption that a new ESS AD/DA chip set was put into this box, given it was among the batch that went in stock after the AKM fire. I've encountered some issues that I hope people have answers for.

  • Since I received it, it's had a distinct issue with the outputs. If it's turned off, sometimes upon reboot the outputs simply won't work. At all. It will register audio out in mixFX, but none of the outputs like the analog, madi, adat, etc. have any output signal.

    I'm looking for a permanent solution to this. Powering off and on didn't fix this, and toggling other settings did nothing. Only by reinstalling the firmware does this seem to solve the issue temporarily. This isn't a large problem, normally, but there are so many settings and disparate menus in so many places that I have trouble orienting myself when sound doesn't work.

    Unfortunately, though, that's not the end of it. Today, in the middle of a field recording the UFX+ dropped out. all of the outputs stopped working again while it was running, and completely killed the session. I don't know if this is a new issue or not, but it's caused a very messy turnabout.

All of the following issues were unchanged after a complete Windows Reset.

  • While recording through my desktop, which I use mainly for mixing, the UFX+ has distinct pops and clicks. This is irrespective of sample rate, buffer size, computer workload, CPU core speed, CPU frequency lock, USB port, etc. (I've checked latency mon, everything is below 700 microseconds after two hours of light usage) The only "fix" I found was changing the RAM speed. Different rates caused random changes in the frequency of the pops and clicks. 3200 was best, but 2933 was the second best rate to minimize clicks. I don't hear clicks using my old Presonus box and a Digiface. Is there something I can do to permanently solve this as well?

  • Changing buffer sizes necessitates a computer reset to get non-desynced/crackling audio. While changing the sample rate works... maybe 60% of the time without issue, changing the buffer size causes otherwise unfixable crackling.

  • The UFX+ has a distinct scratchiness in the 10k+ band. I had somewhat recently purchased a new pair of fairly unforgiving speakers, and A/Bing them across other interfaces shows a very painful harshness on the top end. I'm attaching images to an I/O test. One of the UFX+ and one of an ADI-Pro, whose input I'm using to measure the UFX+. In the images of the next post, I'm showing why this seems so unusual. At my normal listening volumes I don't see any distortion in the output.

Bandlimited pulse Impulse response of UFX to ADI PRO Slow Filter:

https://i.imgur.com/2zEx15y.png

ADI Pro to ADI Pro, Slow to Slow impulse response

https://i.imgur.com/m62YRld.png

---

I also purchased a 12mic, and in every use it's been treating me well. I would call it very convenient, except that I can't control it through madi, which is the only interface that the UFX+ can provide at 96khz. I'm very confused as to why there hasn't been any integration of midi-thru-madi to control the box when I've been told, on multiple occasions for months that it was in the works. Is there a slated time of release?

---

On another note, I've purchased on 30 day guarantee an ADI-2 PRO FS R BE to act as my main outputs instead of the UFX+ and to test my output. While it works mostly fine, I've already encountered an issue with it.

  • The most recent firmware update doesn't seem to consistently fix the ADAT double and quad-speed issue. I've reset and re-installed the drivers via uninstalling them in the device manager, as well as reinstalled the firmware, but the box dropped the ADAT connection mid-way through mixing a song, and was stuck at 48khz until I re-installed the firmware. Also, the firmware check says the current iteration is 265, while the box itself says 06/2022, contrary to what my friend's, who also has the ADI PRO BE, display reads, 08/2022.

Any help on any of these topics would be very, very much appreciated.

Thank you,

Will

2 (edited by Flying Soda 2022-08-28 00:37:24)

Re: Issues with UFX+ connectivity and others

Supplemental images for UFX A/D response.

UFX+ to ADI Pro Harmonic Distortion at 15000hz at 192khz - output 0dBr 4dBU out & input 19db ref (autoset by accident)

https://i.imgur.com/5tz7nQH.png

ADI PRO to ADI Pro, Harmonic Distortion at 15000hz at 192khz - output 0dBr input 19db ref

https://i.imgur.com/NaRanvS.png

UFX+ Harmonic Distortion at 15000hz at 192khz at my standard listening levels - output -30dBr 4dBU out & 19dbu input

https://i.imgur.com/Bcn0Cwa.png

3

Re: Issues with UFX+ connectivity and others

Start the official RME FUT. What is the firmware version (all numbers) you are on now with the UFX+? From the readme:

Fireface UFX+: Thunderbolt 110, USB 54, DSP 46 (AKM), TB 164, USB 68 (ESS)

https://www.rme-audio.de/downloads/fut_madiface_win.zip

What computer is that? Changing the buffer size will only produce crackling when WDM devices block the change. AMD systems are also known for such effects.

The latest ADI firmware is also present in the upper download. A '08/2022' firmware does not exist.

Finally: if you use the digital input of the ADI and see issues disable SRC and make sure the clocking is set correctly.

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME

Re: Issues with UFX+ connectivity and others

Hi MC, the firmware data given is such:

https://i.imgur.com/rlWm3lV.png

https://i.imgur.com/mupIrqI.png

And I am indeed using an AMD TR 1950x. When you say the WDM devices block the change, are you referring to the Windows mixer devices not updating to the new sample rate? Is there a method to circumvent this?

Also, I can confirm that I had a miscommunication with my friend, and his ADI Pro says '06/2022'. Not sure that I understand what it's referring to, maybe the FPGA DSP version?

Update on the ADI PRO. Using the SPDIF optical input directly from the UFX+, I seem to get a desync after about... maybe 2 hours of usage where I get a lot of crackling, and it eventually resets to single lane ADAT unless I physically restart the box before then. My current settings are "SPDIF in: Optical", "SRC: OFF", "Clock Source: SPDIF", "Basic Mode: DAC" "CC-Mode: Stereo", "AD/DA Source: Optical".

I apologize if I missed something. I'm a crack shot at missing the obvious.

If you have any thoughts about the intermittent popping in recording and muted output phenomena, I would be incredibly, deeply grateful.

Thank you for your response!

5

Re: Issues with UFX+ connectivity and others

Ok, firmware is the latest one on both units.

> Update on the ADI PRO. Using the SPDIF optical input directly from the UFX+, I seem to get a desync after about... maybe 2 hours of usage where I get a lot of crackling, and it eventually resets to single lane ADAT unless I physically restart the box before then.

Do the same again, but this time:

- open the Settings dialog and check for USB errors (counter beside Latency)

- change to the Status Overview in the Pro and check that the SPDIF optical input is correct (sync, sample rate)

> And I am indeed using an AMD TR 1950x. When you say the WDM devices block the change, are you referring to the Windows mixer devices not updating to the new sample rate? Is there a method to circumvent this?

Don't use WDM devices if you don't need them, by setting WDM devices to 0 in the Settings dialog. Or don't change sample rate and ASIO buffer size while working in both.

You can search this forum for specific AMD issues and  solutions. Example:

https://forum.rme-audio.de/viewtopic.php?id=35746

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME

Re: Issues with UFX+ connectivity and others

Why i cant add a new Topic? So i try here My problem is The connectivity UFX Plus with my new M1 Pro i think it’s  a driver issues everything is up-to-date it starts with a strong crackling sound or burning fire than Monterey reject the UFX Plus and it says i should use other audio interface
So RME what is The solution I just paid 2800€ for this!

7 (edited by Flying Soda 2022-09-11 04:49:32)

Re: Issues with UFX+ connectivity and others

Don't use WDM devices if you don't need them, by setting WDM devices to 0 in the Settings dialog. Or don't change sample rate and ASIO buffer size while working in both.

Ah...  A catch 22. I have to enable a WDM device so I can loopback audio for a stream that I record.

De-sync seemed to happen while I wasn't playing anything. I tried firmware-resetting both the ADI and the UFX+, but it didn't fix it, this time.  now have to keep the USB plugged in for the dac to set to the correct sample rate, or I switch optical 2 out to AES/SPDIF, which... I can't do since I'm also using the AES I/O.

open the Settings dialog and check for USB errors (counter beside Latency)

- change to the Status Overview in the Pro and check that the SPDIF optical input is correct (sync, sample rate)

No errors detected on the ADI-2 the entire time I was running it.

This is what it says. Input is 192khz, and the SPo at the bottom changes to 192 when I plug in via USB.

https://i.imgur.com/EocEz3o.jpg

--

Also, I've noticed something very strange with the linear response of the UFX. I'm seeing a distinct ripple in the frequency response. Please look to the following image:

Blue is UFX to ADI, Pink is ADI to ADI

https://i.imgur.com/wXOnYNY.png

I think there's some kind of miscalculation of the coefficients or mistiming in the DA-Filter which is causing this. I see the same exact problem in all of the analog inputs as well.

Notably, the impulse response of the UFX+ has a second ripple! (to see a clear picture look to my previous post)

https://i.imgur.com/P2F6KJk.png

I have to ask because it's starting to become a pertinent question. Given the UFX+ also randomly stops making sound (on multiple computer systems no less), do I have a defective unit? It's subtly wrong so it might be some kind of difference the ESS version has, but this is really awful.

8

Re: Issues with UFX+ connectivity and others

Regarding the 'second ripple'. That is a known effect from subsampling. Means you don't have enough sample points for a proper graphical representation. A sinc interpolation would fix this and show a perfect impulse response. I doubt PluginDoctor can do that.

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME

9 (edited by Flying Soda 2022-10-13 04:51:10)

Re: Issues with UFX+ connectivity and others

Thank you MC, that definitely answered the issue I was seeing.

I've also since replaced my AMD chip with an Intel 12700k, and it's eliminated the crackling in loopback, so I'm just going to call it an early adopter symptom. Sorry for all of that trouble.

The ADAT issue still remains, and I've found it's a bit more universal than I expected. if I switch the UFX+ ADAT 2 port from SPDIF/AES to ADAT 2 it immediately switches to taking mono input from the first lane in SPDIF and the ADI 2 PRO says the input clock is 48khz instead of 96 or 192. I tried testing the UFX+ by hooking up a Digiface USB to it (connected to the same computer), and that box also says it's seeing 48khz when in ADAT mode. Output from the Digiface USB to the ADI 2 PRO in ADAT mode also has the same exact error. They're all using the latest firmware and my computer is using the 9/9/22 driver.

Complete non sequitur, I might have missed this from the manual, but I recall the 12mic switches antialiasing filters at different sample rates. Does the UFX+ do this as well?

10

Re: Issues with UFX+ connectivity and others

You seem to ave missed the chapters in the manual explaining ADAT and SMUX operation. Unless your ADAT source supports the un-official 96 kHz flags input sample rate will be shown as what it is - 48 kHz. And mono issues will go away after you have changed the sample rate to the correct value.

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME

11 (edited by Flying Soda 2022-10-14 03:08:11)

Re: Issues with UFX+ connectivity and others

Hello MC,

Unless I've mistaken the ability to perform S/MUX operation for the ability to flag the receiver that it's performing a multiplex operation, then I'm fairly certain that every RME product I've used explicitly states in its manual that it's capable of sending and receiving both S/MUX and S/MUX4 protocols.

From the UFX+
https://i.imgur.com/uCLa8zw.png

I'm of the assumption that the conversion and recognition of this format should be automatic. At least on the UFX+ side
https://i.imgur.com/XZu93L8.png

and the ADI-2 Pro FS R side.
https://i.imgur.com/csvmOYd.png

If it has to do with the UFX+'s and Digiface's ability to flag for the multiplex protocol, then please tell me how to do so, I've completely read all three manuals involving the ADAT protocol, and I've been unable to solve this issue. If I can't send the flag, then I'd like to request an update to send it. I would assume, since it's a single fiber stream, that the flag would just be part of the standard digital stream, but please correct me if I'm wrong.

12

Re: Issues with UFX+ connectivity and others

The clock shown in the Settings dialog is always the physical carrier clock. I think we had a product that showed it as double sf when the SMUX/2 flag was detected, but most shouldn't do that. So seeing 48 at 96K ADAT or 192 kHz ADAT is fully normal.

- Even with flag detected there is no automatic switching to the respective clock mode. None of our interfaces does that, for various reasons. Changing from single to double or quad speed always requires to manually change the rate at the audio interface. This is no issue in real world as you do exactly that - you want to record at 96 kHz then you set that rate in the DAW and the DAW sets it in the hardware. Second there have been wrong implementations of ADAT transmitters (from other manufactuerrs) that send the double speed flag in single speed mode. That made any auto detection feature useless.

- Regarding the WDM issues: Sonarworks used systemwide has been reported to cause issues with crackling and changing buffers...just in case...

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME