Topic: RME ADI-2/4 RIAA Mode

I've just set up my ADI-2/4 and started listening using the RIAA mode to my Technics SL-7 and have a few queries.

I'm using the DAC mode.

I've set the Analog Input to Auto Ref Level ON, which sets it to +1dBu. This is going to give me the best performance I guess? If I set the Ref Level any higher manually, noise performance will be worse? (I've also set RIAA mode on with +26 as this gives me closest to 0dB on the meters with no overs.)

When I first started using the turntable I could see there was an incoming analog signal but could get no output. I hadn't played any other source since switch on. I then tried to play something from Roon over USB whilst still playing from the turntable and then I had sound from the turntable.

Is this related to the fact that the ADC sets its sample rate from the last played digital source? So this is expected behaviour? It did confuse me a bit.

Also I can change the ADC sample rate by selecting different sample rate material in Roon. Is that the only way to set the ADC sample rate?

Re: RME ADI-2/4 RIAA Mode

I've been listeing to vinyl via my 2/4 all week, welcome to the club! smile

As far as I know Auto Ref level doesn't apply when RIAA mode is on.

I've found RIAA +26dB best for 90% of the vinyl I have played so far. Some really quiet cuts need louder, and some really loud 45s need quieter, to maximise SNR or stop clipping.

Just to make sure, you had "Ana" source selected on the remote for the TT input?

Not sure about your other questions, but am also interested to hear the answers!

https://musicwall.app/hermetech

3 (edited by badboygolf16v 2022-12-20 17:55:08)

Re: RME ADI-2/4 RIAA Mode

Yes, I used the remote's ANA button.

Just to confirm, when powered on device sample rate is set at 768, which is above the maximum sample rate for RIAA of 192. I have to play some digital content with sample rate of 192 or less to get some output from turntable even though Source Select is DAC Analog.

EDIT Maybe if input is Analog and RIAA mode is selected, and sample rate > 192 sample rate could be set to 192? Any issues with adding this feature to the firmware?

4

Re: RME ADI-2/4 RIAA Mode

Please study the manual regarding Basic Modes, signal routing and source selection for the two outputs.

When USB is connected then USB dictates the one and only sample rate of the unit, and as such AD/DA. There is no other way to do it.

With RIAA mode active the Ref level selection is greyed out, means not active.

The unit remembers the last sample rate. It does not default to 768 kHz. But some stupid external hardware/software does, always using/setting the max sample rate as default.

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME

Re: RME ADI-2/4 RIAA Mode

Thanks. As you say, it looks like it's Roon Bridge in idle state that's forcing the 768 rate as when I disconnected it things are ok.

Re: RME ADI-2/4 RIAA Mode

Is this available or equivalent for the original ADI 2 pro FS?

Re: RME ADI-2/4 RIAA Mode

joecaithnessmastering wrote:

Is this available or equivalent for the original ADI 2 pro FS?

No, due to certain hardware requirements it‘s a ADI-2/4 Pro SE function that cannot be implemented in other models by fimware.

But - you can connect an RIAA / vinyl turntable preamp to ADI-2.
They come in various flavors and prices.

There are even ones with integrated ADCs and digital out that would fit to ADI-2 DAC.
Might sound a bit funny in the first place, but isn’t that stupid seen from the usability factor.

Re: RME ADI-2/4 RIAA Mode

KaiS wrote:
joecaithnessmastering wrote:

Is this available or equivalent for the original ADI 2 pro FS?

No, due to certain hardware requirements it‘s a ADI-2/4 Pro SE function that cannot be implemented in other models by fimware.

But - you can connect an RIAA / vinyl turntable preamp to ADI-2.
They come in various flavors and prices.

There are even ones with integrated ADCs and digital out that would fit to ADI-2 DAC.
Might sound a bit funny in the first place, but isn’t that stupid seen from the usability factor.

Sure I've been using an ADI 2 Pro FS since early release wink but I'm keen to clean up my vinyl QC rig where poss

Re: RME ADI-2/4 RIAA Mode

Sell the Pro FS Joe, and get a 2/4, am sure you wouldn't regret it!

https://musicwall.app/hermetech

Re: RME ADI-2/4 RIAA Mode

Babaluma wrote:

Sell the Pro FS Joe, and get a 2/4, am sure you wouldn't regret it!

My bank balance would though!

11 (edited by iwokowanski 2023-11-21 20:30:27)

Re: RME ADI-2/4 RIAA Mode

There is -64db noise on both channels when in riaa mode even when no record is played.  What could cause that?

12 (edited by KaiS 2023-11-22 01:07:03)

Re: RME ADI-2/4 RIAA Mode

iwokowanski wrote:

There is -64db noise on both channels when in riaa mode even when no record is played.  What could cause that?

I get -74 dB on ADI-2/4’s meter PreFX, with the turntable connected.
44.1 kHz / RIAA +38 dB.
192 kHz / RIAA +38 dB (= worst case) it’s -69 dB - but this 5 dB additional noise is outside the audible band.

With my Ortofon OMP40 I run 32 dB, leads to -80 dB residual noise on the meter, far better than even the best vinyl’s groove noise.


Check your turntable’s ground wire, it needs to be connected to ADI-2/4 Pro SE.

A good place is the on the D-Sub connector screw.
Or simply clamped into the adapter like this:
https://cdn.head-fi.org/a/12219636.jpeg

13 (edited by iwokowanski 2023-11-22 18:13:39)

Re: RME ADI-2/4 RIAA Mode

KaiS wrote:

I get -74 dB on ADI-2/4’s meter PreFX, with the turntable connected.
44.1 kHz / RIAA +38 dB.
192 kHz / RIAA +38 dB (= worst case) it’s -69 dB - but this 5 dB additional noise is outside the audible band.

With my Ortofon OMP40 I run 32 dB, leads to -80 dB residual noise on the meter, far better than even the best vinyl’s groove noise.


Check your turntable’s ground wire, it needs to be connected to ADI-2/4 Pro SE.

A good place is the on the D-Sub connector screw.
Or simply clamped into the adapter like this:

Thank you KaiS for you answer.  I have my ground connected to D-Sub connector.  It was a bit rusty so I cleaned it.  Also tried to connect it to TS. 

I managed to reduce "noise" to -68 dB on both channels.

I can`t hear it but the problem is that I like to use auto standby mode.  Manual says that the limit which triggers this mode is -70 dB (so close)

14 (edited by KaiS 2023-11-22 21:54:10)

Re: RME ADI-2/4 RIAA Mode

iwokowanski wrote:

I managed to reduce "noise" to -68 dB on both channels.

I can`t hear it but the problem is that I like to use auto standby mode.  Manual says that the limit which triggers this mode is -70 dB (so close)

That’s simple:

Set RIAA Mode to +32 dB instead of 38 dB.

The gain is in the digital domain anyhow, so bringing volume up by 6 dB then gives the exact same result and sound quality.

Re: RME ADI-2/4 RIAA Mode

Auto standby mode is triggered even at noise level -68d.  Just tested.  Thanks again KaiS.

Re: RME ADI-2/4 RIAA Mode

iwokowanski wrote:

Auto standby mode is triggered even at noise level -68d.  Just tested.  Thanks again KaiS.

Yeah - go down one notch in the RIAA setting and you should be fine.

17 (edited by jrssc 2024-04-09 00:29:40)

Re: RME ADI-2/4 RIAA Mode

Hey everyone, I've just obtained an ADI 2/4, primarily as a replacement of my analog Preamp (Moon LP110v2) for ripping vinyl, but also for the great headphone amp. 

This device is proving far more technical than anything else I've previously owned, so I was hoping to get some advice as far as transferring vinyl goes.

I'm no stranger when it comes to ripping vinyl, though with this device I find myself getting very confused about optimal sample rates / AD filters, etc. - stuff I've typically not worried about.  Historically, I've always ripped vinyl at a sample rate of 44.1khz / 16 bit.  I've gone down the Sample Rate debate rabbit hole many times, and generally it seems that people agree there's not much benefit to higher sample rates unless you plan to do some sort of time stretching / pitch shifting of the material.

With this device, being that the RIAA is applied digitally, I find myself very confused as to whether or not it's functionality as a preamp is improved (or hindered) at varying sample rates.  Is this accurate? Or is the quality of the RIAA irrespective of sample rate?  Similarly I find myself confused about the various AD Filters.  Do different AD Filters impact the recorded audio differently?  For archiving, which is the optimal AD filter? Slow? (My unit seems to have been defaulted to Sharp)

Let's entertain the following scenario.  Say I want to rip vinyl at my typical 44.1khz, though I also want to rip at a higher sample rate simultaneously.  In the past I've accomplished this by using two different convertors and two dfiferent computers.

I have been entrusted with ripping some very rare vinyl material which in all likelihood I will never encounter again.  For this reason, I am considering ripping at a higher than normal sample rate of 96khz (I've been convinced that 192khz is not worthwhile) 

That said, from what I've read, downsampling to a more conventional 44.1khz or 48khz after the fact is not ideal - so I'd rather rip the two sample rates simultaneously.

The reasons for ripping at two sample rates simultaneously rather than in two takes are 1.) time and 2.) these are not normal records they are lacquers/acetates and therefore wear significantly more after each play than typical records.  I'll already be playing them several times with different carts/styli, so I want to minimize playing as much as possible

Previously I've accomplished this by routing a direct monitoring signal from convertor/interface 1 -> into convertor/interface 2.  If I understand correctly.  With the AD 2/4 I was curious if I can leverage the digital outs into the digital ins of interface 2.  But since the audio will be in the digital domain at that point - won't it already have been converted to the chosen sample rate of interface 1 (in this case the ADI 2/4?) Is there any benefit at this point to capturing a different sample rate using another interface? Would I need instead to use the analog outs to accomplish my goal (which again, will have already been digitally processed by the AD 2/4).

Feel free to chime in with opinions on the Sample Rate debate as well, because in reality it all makes my head spin.

18 (edited by MatrixS2000 2024-04-15 15:58:31)

Re: RME ADI-2/4 RIAA Mode

JRSS, I do a lot of vinyl recording also.  I use a different device (not because it is better or worse), so I can’t answer your questions around how to use the ADI, but I can hopefully put your mind at ease around resampling to different sampling rates.

You can use a null test to show you exactly what you are loosing when you go between sample rates.

Here are the rough steps for you:

1 - Take any high resolution file, I rip at 176.4, but whichever you choose is ok so long as it is higher than 44k and make a copy of it

2 - Resample that high resolution file to 44k

3 - Take the 44k file and resample it up to your original sample rate, so this file has no gone through 2 resamples

4 - Copy that file into your clipboard

5 - Open the original copy high resolution file and invert and mix your clipboarded file into it.

6 - What you see are the differences between the files. 

7 - Ignore anything above 22K as that material would never be in a 44K file

8 - Below 22K is what you are interested in.  Here you should see a lot of blue hash.  This is what is different between the original copy high resolution file and the twice resampled 44K file.

9 - You should note that there are differences, but they are all around -170dB, which is well beyond human hearing.  You can decide if it is worth worrying about for you, I don’t.

Hope this helps

19 (edited by KaiS 2024-04-16 09:42:15)

Re: RME ADI-2/4 RIAA Mode

I‘m ripping vinyl in 96 kHz / 24 bit.

The advantages:

• The AD- (and DA-) filter debate becomes pointless.
The fact alone, that I can hear a (tiny) difference between various filters at 44.1 kHz proves that the format is NOT fully transparent.

With 96 kHz this is not the case, the filters are out of the way.


• Later declicking is much easier, as the recorded ultrasonic part of the click is a clear sign that it’s a click and not an audio pulse.
This helps click detection.


• Downsampling can be done offline, e.g. with the very good and free app Voxengo r8brain if lower res files are needed.
The extra processing time / higher filter coefficients allowed in offline (vs. realtime) downsampling improves on the result.

Voxengo r8brain allows batch-processing of multiple files.

No 2nd or parallel record-run necessary.