• Registered: 2015-01-29
  • Posts: 38

Topic: WTF is wrong with the MadiFace USB ?

Hey Guys
I don’t know wtf is wrong with the Madiface USB (MF)
Plan was to get rid of my PC and use the Mac Studio for making Music but it wont work as planed. ARM CPUs are obviously the future and PCs with 350 Watt Graphic Cards and 1000 Watt Power Supplies are history soon. At least for me.

Before you ask. The MF has the newest Firmware and the newest Software installed (Mac and PC) and i tried different Madi Cables, different USB cables, different Audio Cables and the result was always the same. Shit.
I bought some new Analog Hardware and thought the new(used) Hardware had an issue.
Then I bypassed the new Hardware and went directly out after the DA Converter (SSL X-Logic Alpha Link -  AX) and the Summing Hardware (Neve Orbit) but it was the same.

My Chain is:
HDSPe MADI (PC), MadiFace USB (MAC)
Madi from Computer into the SSL, via DB-25 into the Orbit. Orbit Main Out via XLR into MYTEK Stereo96 ADC and via SPDIF Toslink into the BabyFace Pro and then Record the Audio Source. (Btw. I also skipped the Mytek and went Analog into the BabyFace but had the same Result so I just kept using the Mytek as it will be in my final Chain exactly like this.

So then the Result is a Waveform which somehow “moves” over time and which has a super weird Waveform.

I tested it first on nice Audio stuff which I can listen too like Bassdrums etc but for a more “reasonable” result I decided to create a Waveform. Now it’s a Triangle Waveform and its just one Loop. This Waveform stays 100% the same and it shouldn’t sound any different AT ALL after being recorded so wtf is happening here?

I recorded the Waveform in 48khz and 24bit at different Length so you can see how it looks zoomed in after being recorded and I recorded it with the HDSPe and the MF so look at the difference !

0 is a screenshot of the original WAV. 1= recorded 6 sec length, 2= 1,4 sec, 3= 18ms, 4= 4ms
Blue = HDSPe Waveform Screenshot, Red = MF Waveform Screenshot

https://i.postimg.cc/rDhfvGxy/0-Triangle-Waveform-1-Loop.jpg
https://i.postimg.cc/zbhpb9M3/1-HDSPe-MADI-6sec.jpg
https://i.postimg.cc/WDCX425Q/1-Madi-Face-6sec.jpg
https://i.postimg.cc/ppCCFQ0Q/2-HDSPe-MADI-1s40.jpg
https://i.postimg.cc/dLwn3N9t/2-Madi-Face-1s40.jpg
https://i.postimg.cc/MfbDt1zS/3-HDSPee-MADI-18ms.jpg
https://i.postimg.cc/NL1pgvmz/3-MADIFace-18ms.jpg
https://i.postimg.cc/67yMw7fr/4-HDSPee-MADI-4ms.jpg
https://i.postimg.cc/q6dw81Vw/4-Madi-Face-4ms.jpg

As you can see the Waveform played back with the HDSPe always looks fine and correct. The MF Waveform is always wrong and weird. I never saw a waveform like this.
I also used the HDSPe and MYTEK with (and without) a Black Lion Wordclock, to see if its the intenal Clock but the recording always looked the same. So this didn’t make any difference.


I played the Waveform from the PC with the MF and recorded it on the Mac Studio with the Babyface
then
I played the Waveform from my Macbook with the MF and recorded it on the Mac Studio with the Babyface
then
I played the Waveform from my Mac Studio with the MF and recorded it on the Macbook with the Babyface
then
I played the Waveform from my Mac Studio with the MF and recorded it on the PC with the Babyface
then
I played the Waveform from my PC with the MF and recorded it on the Macbook with the Babyface.
I thought there may should be somewhere an error or a difference in the chain if its somehow sofware releated but no. It always looked the same. So it doesn’t matter which driver it is or if played back from Windows or Mac Os. The recorded Waveform played back with the MF is always weird.
Again, when I used the HDSPe it looked good.

So as I bought the MF USB used, I guessed I had been ripped off and the MF has a Hardware damage/bug/issue as its obviously not a Software issue SO ITS A Hardware issue, right ? 
(PS: I changed nothing in TotalMix at all) and why should I? When I use the HDSPe over TotalMix it works just fine

So what else can i do to be sure that it really is a faulty MF ???????????
yes


I bought another MF USB -  NEW and tested it!
… AND ??????
Yes, its exactly the same result as with my MF. A weird ass messed up Waveform. (ps I didn’t update the Firmware on the new MF) Now im absolutely clueless as it seems my MF is OK ? Can’t be that both are faulty right ? So after a 1.5 Weeks of testing this drives me to Insanity and I am at the end of “normal user “ Solutions.

So anyone here at RME has any idea what could be the problem or what I can do now ? Besides selling the MF-ing MF ?
Thanks.

2 Reply by MC

  • MC
  • MC
  • Administrator
  • Offline
  • From: Germany/Thailand
  • Registered: 2007-04-06
  • Posts: 25,599

Re: WTF is wrong with the MadiFace USB ?

> My Chain is:
> HDSPe MADI (PC), MadiFace USB (MAC)

You did not mention that you used this simple connection as a first check to record the data that the MF Pro receives on the Mac. Is that still ok? Is the MF Pro synced to its MADI input? Who is clock master in this whole mess?

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME

MC's Website

3 Reply by bazooka (edited by bazooka 2023-01-09 17:53:09)

  • Registered: 2015-01-29
  • Posts: 38

Re: WTF is wrong with the MadiFace USB ?

Hi MC
every connection i used with the MF USB had the same result, this weird waveform. I dont know which "simple connection" youre refering too. Also i never mentioned the Madiface Pro. As i dont have it. The MF USB uses "internal Clock Source". When i use anything else the waveform jumps between sample rates and the Audio has Gaps. So no other option.

https://i.postimg.cc/d14MC4vB/Settings.jpg

  • From: Germany
  • Registered: 2007-04-10
  • Posts: 9,776

Re: WTF is wrong with the MadiFace USB ?

Can you provide short downloadable samples of these files? I don't think a hardware issue of the MF could cause such issues, but more details would be helpful.
Have you tried recording directly from and to the MF with a cable loop? Have you also tried directly conecting/recording between HDSPe Madi and MF?

Regards
Daniel Fuchs
RME

RME Support's Website

  • Registered: 2015-01-29
  • Posts: 38

Re: WTF is wrong with the MadiFace USB ?

Hi Daniel,
Yes here is a link where you DL the WAV files i took the screenshots from:
https://we.tl/t-fomavG0ant
I also added an Amen Drumloop which i did sent through some hardware that its not to boring to listen too wink


No i never tried this as the Madi Cable normally are hooked up together but i just did it and it did record a proper Waveform sad
Shall i be happy now ? So that means the MadiFace is OK so it may be the SSL X-Logic Alpha which scrambles the Waveform somehow ?
I guess your support is over now as your Hardware is working fine.
I just wonder why it records proper from the HDSPe through everything but not through the Madiface.
Danke auf jeden fall trotzdem.

  • Registered: 2009-06-30
  • Posts: 215

Re: WTF is wrong with the MadiFace USB ?

Check that SSL and Madiface have the same channel count (56 vs 64 mode). I had some really weird issues once with an SSL interface and Protools when it did not match. (All frequencies until 11kHz were mirrored to the right.)
Just guessing, since I read "SSL" all my alarms went off.
Georg

  • From: Germany
  • Registered: 2007-04-10
  • Posts: 9,776

Re: WTF is wrong with the MadiFace USB ?

I will have a look at it a bit later. But if the direct connection works, there must be something in the external signal path that causes this...

Regards
Daniel Fuchs
RME

RME Support's Website

  • From: Germany
  • Registered: 2007-04-10
  • Posts: 9,776

Re: WTF is wrong with the MadiFace USB ?

Very odd, esp. when zooming in closer. No idea how this happens. Please try dissecting the signal path to see when this first appears, or in which combination of devices.

Regards
Daniel Fuchs
RME

RME Support's Website

9 Reply by bazooka (edited by bazooka 2023-01-14 13:41:30)

  • Registered: 2015-01-29
  • Posts: 38

Re: WTF is wrong with the MadiFace USB ?

Thanks George and Daniel. Yes these Waveforms are surely strange and i tried to find how why this happens but every recording i did with the Madiface USB looked like this. As you Daniel, said i hade to try the Madi Loop, i thought it had to be the SSL and you mentioned it as well George BUT why is this then just happening with the USB madi and not with the  HDSPe ?? I litererly unplug the cable from the HDSPe where the recording where fine, plug them into the MF USB and the Waveform looks like this therefore i thought it had to be an issue with the MF, so therefore it couldnt really be a wrong setting on the SSL or ? But thanks for the hint George, i may research this but i also thought about an altenative DA Converter RME M-32 so i may get this one.
Im tired of hunting for this error but i will research this a bit longer on the weekend.
Cheers Guys !!

EDIT:
George was right.
My SSL Converter was set to 56Ch instead of 64CH. Therefore the Fireface Setting of the MF USB was not set correctly (Madi Output was set to 64 (32CH) instead of 56 (28CH) ) and was feeding the signal wrongly. No that i changed the Seetings it a "normal" waveform again.
Thanks again for your Help!