Topic: Rew, Sonarworks or Dirac in Totalmix?

I have seen a few threads about VST support in RME, and I think that would be nice also, but looking at the current trend in active speakers from Genelec, Neumann and other I just want to say that I would ove to have a multiband EQ on the outputs in RME Totalmix that can import profiles for speaker calibration. It would be awesome to have it applied for all the sound going out from the computer and not just from a DAW running VST or needing extra host software like Liveprofessor. The less extra software needed - the better in my book.

2 (edited by waedi 2023-01-13 20:10:55)

Re: Rew, Sonarworks or Dirac in Totalmix?

It was requested often and explaind from RME well, it will not happen.
You ask for VST. Do you want VST2 or VST3 ?
Me mac addict want to have AU implemented.
Tomorrow another one asks for Clap plugins.
These plugin formats are changing all the time, it's a mess !
There is already a proper solution to that :
Download Reaper and put the room correction on the Loopback signal.
Reaper is a very lightweight (143,6 MB) software and super stabil !

M1-Sonoma, Madiface Pro, Digiface USB, Babyface silver and blue

3 (edited by naturligasteg 2023-01-13 20:37:09)

Re: Rew, Sonarworks or Dirac in Totalmix?

No, I am not asking for a VST.

I am just wishing for a solution for speaker calibration integration.  It would be great to have it integrated so we can use any kind of speakers calibrated without jumping through hoops and loops.

Integration is not equal to VSTs. Looking at what we have now with EQ and dynamics in totalmix it seems to me like the easiest solution would be to add a multiband EQ for calibration that is put on the outputs. If it is a matter of computing power in the Totalmix/Fireface I would gladly trade the reverb and delay for speaker calibration. Some solution to make a multiband EQ read calibration files from any choosen partner like Adam has done with their V line of speakers and most brands that make home cinema amplifiers have done with Dirac.

I really like my RME hardware, it has been reliable for many years, but I would definitely consider trading for another brand that offer an integrated calibration solution in a good software with adat/dante support.

4 (edited by mkok 2023-01-13 23:22:59)

Re: Rew, Sonarworks or Dirac in Totalmix?

I don’t know of another brand who do this. I use sonarworks as a plugin in Cubase and for my pc sounds without problems

Babyface Pro Fs, Behringer ADA8200, win 10/11 PCs, Cubase/Wavelab, Adam A7X monitors.

Re: Rew, Sonarworks or Dirac in Totalmix?

I do this with SoundID Reference (Sonarworks) app running on System audio (which is my UFX).

The first 2 snapshots in Totalmix toggle between my mains and secondary monitors.

By using a Streamdeck to trigger midi note off (velocity 0) commands via the IAC Buss to change the Snapshots in Totalmix,
then setting the SoundID Reference app to midi learn these commands, for the two different monitor profiles, it all works in sync.

Very simple and very effective.

I also have Digicheck being fed by a Source Nexus plugin (tapping into the signal on my master buss) in LogicProX or ProToolsUltimate to feed a playback channel of Totalmix and in turn DigicheckNG. (therefore bypassing the SoundID Reference for accurate metering)

Works a treat.

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Matt McKenzie-Smith (UFXII, UFX, Babyface) MacStudioUltra OS13.2.1
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Re: Rew, Sonarworks or Dirac in Totalmix?

mkok wrote:

I don’t know of another brand who do this. I use sonarworks as a plugin in Cubase and for my pc sounds without problems

AVID, DigitalAudioDenmark and MergingTechnologies integrate this in hardware.

----------------
Matt McKenzie-Smith (UFXII, UFX, Babyface) MacStudioUltra OS13.2.1
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Re: Rew, Sonarworks or Dirac in Totalmix?

mattrixx wrote:
mkok wrote:

I don’t know of another brand who do this. I use sonarworks as a plugin in Cubase and for my pc sounds without problems

AVID, DigitalAudioDenmark and MergingTechnologies integrate this in hardware.

Ok, must look into them and see how they do it. Can you name what products that have speaker calibration in them?

8 (edited by naturligasteg 2023-01-14 07:59:12)

Re: Rew, Sonarworks or Dirac in Totalmix?

mattrixx wrote:

I do this with SoundID Reference (Sonarworks) app running on System audio (which is my UFX).

Works a treat.

Ok, so SoundID is a separate app on you computer (mac or PC)? that you route system audio though? How much extra latency does it add? I would prefer not to have more middle ware, but if it is on system audio and not just in my daw that is better for me cause I want calibrated sound on all my playback.

Re: Rew, Sonarworks or Dirac in Totalmix?

naturligasteg wrote:
mattrixx wrote:

I do this with SoundID Reference (Sonarworks) app running on System audio (which is my UFX).

Works a treat.

Ok, so SoundID is a separate app on you computer (mac or PC)? that you route system audio though? How much extra latency does it add? I would prefer not to have more middle ware, but if it is on system audio and not just in my daw that is better for me cause I want calibrated sound on all my playback.

There are multiple ways to run SoundID and plenty of options regarding latency. ie The low latency mode of it, does not correct all of the phase issues in a monitoring environment.  However, it will introduce latency when using full correction, depending on the amount of correction it is doing.  ie Time correction, phase coherence between monitors and EQ filters etc.

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Matt McKenzie-Smith (UFXII, UFX, Babyface) MacStudioUltra OS13.2.1
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Re: Rew, Sonarworks or Dirac in Totalmix?

Ok, SoundID does not top my wishlist. Will look more into hardware that support calibration.

Re: Rew, Sonarworks or Dirac in Totalmix?

Sound Id has a zero latency setting and I think you would be extremely hard pressed to hear any phase problems. I use it in Cubase with the zero latency setting right up to the final mix. I can’t hear any difference with whichever mode it is in but I use the linear phase for mixing just in case.

Babyface Pro Fs, Behringer ADA8200, win 10/11 PCs, Cubase/Wavelab, Adam A7X monitors.

Re: Rew, Sonarworks or Dirac in Totalmix?

mkok wrote:

Sound Id has a zero latency setting and I think you would be extremely hard pressed to hear any phase problems. I use it in Cubase with the zero latency setting right up to the final mix. I can’t hear any difference with whichever mode it is in but I use the linear phase for mixing just in case.

Still. I am a hardware person. I prefer to have as little software on software as possible to minimize the risk of things crashing down due to incompatibility.

Re: Rew, Sonarworks or Dirac in Totalmix?

Why not just get some hardware to do this then? Like minidsp for instance, they have their whole business cenetered around this.

Babyface Pro FS, MSI GS66, Studio One

Re: Rew, Sonarworks or Dirac in Totalmix?

Sonarworks SoundID integrated into my BF pro FS would be very very nice. I would gladly trade reverb and delay for it. In Merging+Anubis it runs different calibration profiles for different outputs simultaneously. You only run the PC/Mac app for monitor calibration and then export the calibration files to Merging+Anubis. Very neat solution. Close to zero latency. M+A also runs different headphone calibration profiles simultaneously on the headphone outputs.

Re: Rew, Sonarworks or Dirac in Totalmix?

I've got this (SoundID) working with ATMOS as well as 2 sets of stereo monitoring via UFXII.
Created virtual routing using Source Nexus, all selected via either Streamdeck or ARC USB.
Works a treat.

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Matt McKenzie-Smith (UFXII, UFX, Babyface) MacStudioUltra OS13.2.1
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Re: Rew, Sonarworks or Dirac in Totalmix?

I too would like to know if it will be possible in the future to load my sonarworks profile into my UFX+.

Merging/Neumann, Avid, DAD and Audient supporting such workflow on an interface level.

There are also speaker manufacturers who support this.

Re: Rew, Sonarworks or Dirac in Totalmix?

+1
Me too, will experiment with their export functions as some might come in handy to type in the values into Total Mix.
A dedicated one to the implementation / available bands in Total Mix would be most welcome though!

18 (edited by hselters 2024-03-12 15:49:21)

Re: Rew, Sonarworks or Dirac in Totalmix?

For those using Sonarworks Sound ID Reference: I found out that you can export a calibration profile for DAD family with SPQ DSP and it will give you two alternative .txt files. The one ending with [...] Flat - 8 - PEQ.txt contains information like the following (using an example of my Center speaker, same goes for Left, Right etc.):

C channel calibration:
Delay: 1.74603 ms
Gain: 0 dB

|Type                |Freq      |Gain      |Q         |
|:-------------------|:---------|:---------|:---------|
|Parametric Eq 1     |40      Hz|3.884   dB|1.856     |
|Parametric Eq 2     |53      Hz|-5.068  dB|2.381     |
|Parametric Eq 3     |77      Hz|3.306   dB|3.687     |
|Parametric Eq 4     |139     Hz|3.856   dB|4.51      |
|Parametric Eq 5     |192     Hz|1.905   dB|10        |
|Parametric Eq 6     |319     Hz|2.136   dB|10        |
|Parametric Eq 7     |550     Hz|-2.193  dB|10        |
|Parametric Eq 8     |1676    Hz|2.197   dB|4.699     |

Although designed to be imported into DADMan those values can also work for Total Mix Room EQ (with a bit of rounding, as Room EQ does not allow such precise decimal values...).

There is also a [...] Flat - 16 - PEQ.txt file which can be useful to use all 9 bands of Room EQ + the regular 3 band EQ on Total Mix Hardware Outputs for a total of 12 (for a more precise Bass response in my case). Best to then skip 4 bands from the generated 16 which have no close neighbouring frequencies.

E.g. (using only the ones in bold)


C channel calibration:
Delay: 1.74603 ms
Gain: 0 dB

|Type                |Freq      |Gain      |Q         |
|:-------------------|:---------|:---------|:---------|
|Parametric Eq 1     |40      Hz|4.546   dB|1.778     |
|Parametric Eq 2     |54      Hz|-7.159  dB|1.835     |
|Parametric Eq 3     |87      Hz|6.873   dB|1.449     |
|Parametric Eq 4     |96      Hz|-6.357  dB|3.868     |
|Parametric Eq 5     |149     Hz|6.408   dB|3.512     |
|Parametric Eq 6     |163     Hz|-5.947  dB|3.218     |
|Parametric Eq 7     |189     Hz|2.906   dB|7.658     |
|Parametric Eq 8     |243     Hz|2.453   dB|6.552     |
|Parametric Eq 9     |283     Hz|-2.732  dB|4.646     |

|Parametric Eq 10    |313     Hz|3.327   dB|5.936     |
|Parametric Eq 11    |383     Hz|-1.6    dB|8.883     |
|Parametric Eq 12    |553     Hz|-2.876  dB|8.89      |
|Parametric Eq 13    |687     Hz|2.074   dB|3.5       |
|Parametric Eq 14    |968     Hz|-1.547  dB|6.718     |
|Parametric Eq 15    |1690    Hz|2.19    dB|4.068     |
|Parametric Eq 16    |2432    Hz|-1.469  dB|6.833     |

Re: Rew, Sonarworks or Dirac in Totalmix?

Great news!

Re: Rew, Sonarworks or Dirac in Totalmix?

Anyone have any suggestions on how to get headphone correction curves easily ported over from SoundID to the room correction EQ? I've reached out to Sonarworks to see if they will implement .tmreq export. I've managed to match it by eye pretty close but its not quite perfect.

Re: Rew, Sonarworks or Dirac in Totalmix?

Anyone tested the suggestion from hselters to export Sonarworks SoundID EQ config and load it up into TotalMix?

Would that be a replacement for the Sonarworks plugin? Or is the TotalMix EQ too limited?
I would love to get rid of that plugin in my DAW and have room correction enabled per default on my main speaker output.

22

Re: Rew, Sonarworks or Dirac in Totalmix?

Just wait. A direct export is on its way.

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME

Re: Rew, Sonarworks or Dirac in Totalmix?

trigg wrote:

Anyone tested the suggestion from hselters to export Sonarworks SoundID EQ config and load it up into TotalMix?

Would that be a replacement for the Sonarworks plugin? Or is the TotalMix EQ too limited?
I would love to get rid of that plugin in my DAW and have room correction enabled per default on my main speaker output.

That's how I did it on day one.. It's time consuming, but well worth it.

MC, that's super awesome news!!

----------------
Matt McKenzie-Smith (UFXII, UFX, Babyface) MacStudioUltra OS13.2.1
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Re: Rew, Sonarworks or Dirac in Totalmix?

MC wrote:

Just wait. A direct export is on its way.

Wow, nice!

I’ll wait..

25 (edited by alexander.mcvittie 2024-03-22 21:34:49)

Re: Rew, Sonarworks or Dirac in Totalmix?

If you're impatient, I've created a little script that converts the DAD 8 ch export to TMREQ format smile

https://gist.github.com/mcvittal/2f55fe … fc48558efc


Screenshot comparing it:
https://i.imgur.com/iv6aOiU.png

26 (edited by Megalobass 2024-03-23 22:22:04)

Re: Rew, Sonarworks or Dirac in Totalmix?

MC wrote:

Just wait. A direct export is on its way.

Good news!

Bertrand Allaume

Re: Rew, Sonarworks or Dirac in Totalmix?

For owners of UFX units that don't use much of the EQs on board at all, I'd love to see the option to get an 18 or 36 band EQ option.  I really don't use many EQs, and I'd be happy to sacrifice a lot of 3 band EQ channels to have a really accurate room correction EQ curve.

Re: Rew, Sonarworks or Dirac in Totalmix?

alexander.mcvittie wrote:

If you're impatient, I've created a little script that converts the DAD 8 ch export to TMREQ format smile

https://gist.github.com/mcvittal/2f55fe … fc48558efc


Screenshot comparing it:
https://i.imgur.com/iv6aOiU.png

Thank you, that worked very well! Still looking forward to an official export support (9 bands are better than 8, right?)

But for now, I am very happy to finally got rid of the Sonarworks plugin and the ongoing glitches this was causing through software rerouting etc.

For the headphone correction I found all settings through oratory1990 on reddit, as those cannot be exported from the Sonarworks app.

29

Re: Rew, Sonarworks or Dirac in Totalmix?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ThnD4__RMB0

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME

Re: Rew, Sonarworks or Dirac in Totalmix?

Hi

Any news when this are coming "A direct export is on its way"?

Regards
A Fireface UFX III is RME user :-)