• Registered: 2020-08-25
  • Posts: 17

Topic: Adding FireFace 800 to my setup

Currently running a FireFace 802 FX and an OctoPre. The 802 is running from Firewire to a PC and the OctoPre is driving the clocking ie it's the ADAT master device. I am considering buying a FF 800 to add more I/O and still have TotalMix control - albeit without FX on the 800. My question: how should this trio be attached to the system? Will TotalMix see the 800 as the last 8 channels of my ADAT allocation with just an optical connection or do I need to piggyback the FireWire from the 802 to the 800? Will this all work? Any suggestions or problems please post. I don't want to buy this unless I can see and manage it in TotalMix. Thanks for your time - it's much appreciated.

Fireface 802, Octamic II, UAD Quad, Midas Venice 320, Cubase, Windows 10.
  • From: Germany
  • Registered: 2007-04-10
  • Posts: 9,776

Re: Adding FireFace 800 to my setup

You will need a real Firewire connection, at least for initial configuration of the standalone routings etc. There is no way to connect through Firewire on the 802.

Regards
Daniel Fuchs
RME

RME Support's Website

  • From: San Francisco CA US
  • Registered: 2008-03-04
  • Posts: 38

Re: Adding FireFace 800 to my setup

RME Support wrote:

You will need a real Firewire connection, at least for initial configuration of the standalone routings etc. There is no way to connect through Firewire on the 802.

So are you saying the FF800 cannot be connected to the 802 by Firewire even if the 802 is connected to the computer by USB, thus leaving the FW ports open?

FireFace800 (D 3.125, fw 2.77) Ryzen9 3950X, 570X Extrm4,  Win10 Prox64 1909, 32Gb DDR4-3600, GTX950
  • Registered: 2016-06-14
  • Posts: 1,142

Re: Adding FireFace 800 to my setup

SF_Green wrote:
RME Support wrote:

You will need a real Firewire connection, at least for initial configuration of the standalone routings etc. There is no way to connect through Firewire on the 802.

So are you saying the FF800 cannot be connected to the 802 by Firewire even if the 802 is connected to the computer by USB, thus leaving the FW ports open?

USB and FireWire are different protocols. RME interfaces with both of these connections (like the 802) even use different drivers for each. Such an interface cannot act as a 'USB to FireWire converter'.

UCX - FF 400 - Babyface pro - Digiface USB - ADI-2 (original)
Mac mini M1 - Macbook pro - iPad Air2
  • From: San Francisco CA US
  • Registered: 2008-03-04
  • Posts: 38

Re: Adding FireFace 800 to my setup

oli77sch wrote:
SF_Green wrote:
RME Support wrote:

You will need a real Firewire connection, at least for initial configuration of the standalone routings etc. There is no way to connect through Firewire on the 802.

So are you saying the FF800 cannot be connected to the 802 by Firewire even if the 802 is connected to the computer by USB, thus leaving the FW ports open?

USB and FireWire are different protocols. RME interfaces with both of these connections (like the 802) even use different drivers for each. Such an interface cannot act as a 'USB to FireWire converter'.

Yes, I would expect there to be different drivers for the computer the 802 is connected to, but both protocols must be on the controller chip or firmware of the 802.  So you are saying that as soon as you plug a USB cable into the 802 the FW port is deactivated, and vice versa?  I understand it not being a converter, but it would not be acting as a converter if it communicated with the computer by USB and to a FF800 by Firewire would it?  What I get from your statement is that in the scenario I suggested is that the 802 merely passes communication to the computer from the 800, rather than processing signal from the 800 within the 802.  Is that correct?

FireFace800 (D 3.125, fw 2.77) Ryzen9 3950X, 570X Extrm4,  Win10 Prox64 1909, 32Gb DDR4-3600, GTX950
  • Registered: 2022-06-24
  • Posts: 8

Re: Adding FireFace 800 to my setup

RME Support wrote:

You will need a real Firewire connection, at least for initial configuration of the standalone routings etc. There is no way to connect through Firewire on the 802.

Is this video then not correct? Would this setup work with an 800 and an 802?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cfexKXS7wNk

7 Reply by waedi (edited by waedi 2023-02-11 10:13:59)

  • waedi
  • DAW Mastermind
  • Offline
  • From: Swiss Zürich
  • Registered: 2020-12-08
  • Posts: 4,549

Re: Adding FireFace 800 to my setup

The video is correct and the method 3 is the one suitable for your demand.

M1-Sequoia, Madiface Pro, Digiface USB, Babyface silver and blue
  • Registered: 2020-08-25
  • Posts: 17

Re: Adding FireFace 800 to my setup

RME Support wrote:

You will need a real Firewire connection, at least for initial configuration of the standalone routings etc. There is no way to connect through Firewire on the 802.

So this video which clearly shows daisy chaining FW from even an 800 is incorrect? Is this the best support I can get from RME?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cfexKXS7wNk

Fireface 802, Octamic II, UAD Quad, Midas Venice 320, Cubase, Windows 10.

9 Reply by waedi (edited by waedi 2023-02-13 00:18:45)

  • waedi
  • DAW Mastermind
  • Offline
  • From: Swiss Zürich
  • Registered: 2020-12-08
  • Posts: 4,549

Re: Adding FireFace 800 to my setup

The Fireface 802 is not part of that video.
The FF800 has two FW ports so Daisy chain is possible.
The 802 has only one port wich is for connecting to the computer, not for connecting other interfaces.
There is no chain with one port.

M1-Sequoia, Madiface Pro, Digiface USB, Babyface silver and blue
  • From: Germany
  • Registered: 2007-04-10
  • Posts: 9,776

Re: Adding FireFace 800 to my setup

paulkneipp wrote:
RME Support wrote:

You will need a real Firewire connection, at least for initial configuration of the standalone routings etc. There is no way to connect through Firewire on the 802.

So this video which clearly shows daisy chaining FW from even an 800 is incorrect? Is this the best support I can get from RME?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cfexKXS7wNk

The FF400 and FF800 are Firewire devices exclusively, and they provide full Firewire hub functionality, you can even connect a good old MiniDV video cam to a PC through them to transfer video.

What you see in the video does not constitute some kind of internal connection between the two FF800, they do not communicate with each other by way of Firewire, only with the computer individually (one by way of the hub).

The 802 only has one Firewire port and therefore could not even physically act as a Firewire hub. As has been explained here, there is no way to "convert" or otherwise connect between USB and Firewire. The question whether the Firewire port is "deactivated" when USB is connected does not even arise, because it provides no functionality to connect to another Firewire device whatsoever, apart from direct connection to a Firewire port on a computer.

Firewire connectivity on devices like the original UCX and the 802 is limited in comparison to the older dedicated Firewire interfaces, it's more of a legacy extension that was kept along with USB for older systems. So what's in the video is not a matter of what "even an 800" can do... It's just what the older Firewire interfaces did.

Regards
Daniel Fuchs
RME

RME Support's Website