• Registered: 2021-11-27
  • Posts: 14

Topic: Why are your EXEs still 32-bit? CPUs are 64-bit since decades

- x86 is the old 32-bit CPU architecture
- x64 is the modern 64-bit CPU architecture (which commonly available from over a decade)

RME PCIe cards are expensive, and we customers deserve 64-bit drivers and apps... I can't take it, we are in 2023...

-R

TotalMixFX is 32-bit...

dumpbin /headers TotalMixFX.exe | more

Dump of file TotalMixFX.exe

PE signature found

File Type: EXECUTABLE IMAGE

FILE HEADER VALUES
             14C machine (x86)
               5 number of sections
        63A06025 time date stamp Mon Dec 19 13:59:17 2022
               0 file pointer to symbol table
               0 number of symbols
              E0 size of optional header
             102 characteristics
                   Executable
                   32 bit word machine

Panel control hdsp32.exe is also 32-bit... 

dumpbin /headers hdsp32.exe | more

Dump of file hdsp32.exe

PE signature found

File Type: EXECUTABLE IMAGE

FILE HEADER VALUES
             14C machine (x86)
               4 number of sections
        63BD5140 time date stamp Tue Jan 10 12:51:28 2023
               0 file pointer to symbol table
               0 number of symbols
              E0 size of optional header
             102 characteristics
                   Executable
                   32 bit word machine

2 Reply by ramses (edited by ramses 2023-02-25 16:49:22)

  • ramses
  • DAW Mastermind
  • Offline
  • From: UTC+1
  • Registered: 2012-10-14
  • Posts: 13,132

Re: Why are your EXEs still 32-bit? CPUs are 64-bit since decades

It doesn't matter, the main thing is that it works :-)

64-bit would not give you any advantages here. The application is fine with the address room that 32bit offers and as long as CPUs support 32-bit instruction set and Windows supports 32-bit applications, there is absolutely no issue.

For me, it's just like complaining that AD/DA converters don't work with 64-bit.

Or where would you see a real improvement to using a 64-bit application?

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub14
  • Muffin
  • S/Mux specialist
  • Offline
  • Registered: 2021-12-26
  • Posts: 192

Re: Why are your EXEs still 32-bit? CPUs are 64-bit since decades

robpap wrote:

- x86 is the old 32-bit CPU architecture
- x64 is the modern 64-bit CPU architecture (which commonly available from over a decade)

RME PCIe cards are expensive, and we customers deserve 64-bit drivers and apps... I can't take it, we are in 2023...

-R

TotalMixFX is 32-bit...

dumpbin /headers TotalMixFX.exe | more

Dump of file TotalMixFX.exe

PE signature found

File Type: EXECUTABLE IMAGE

FILE HEADER VALUES
             14C machine (x86)
               5 number of sections
        63A06025 time date stamp Mon Dec 19 13:59:17 2022
               0 file pointer to symbol table
               0 number of symbols
              E0 size of optional header
             102 characteristics
                   Executable
                   32 bit word machine

Panel control hdsp32.exe is also 32-bit... 

dumpbin /headers hdsp32.exe | more

Dump of file hdsp32.exe

PE signature found

File Type: EXECUTABLE IMAGE

FILE HEADER VALUES
             14C machine (x86)
               4 number of sections
        63BD5140 time date stamp Tue Jan 10 12:51:28 2023
               0 file pointer to symbol table
               0 number of symbols
              E0 size of optional header
             102 characteristics
                   Executable
                   32 bit word machine

Is there any particular reason as to why you want that to be 64 bits on Windows, apart from nice to have?

4 Reply by robpap (edited by robpap 2023-02-25 18:03:33)

  • Registered: 2021-11-27
  • Posts: 14

Re: Why are your EXEs still 32-bit? CPUs are 64-bit since decades

Guys, I hope that you are joking smile

The instructions of x86 do not exist in your CPU (unless your PC is very very old), so they must be emulated using the real x64 instructions, like in virtual machines.

Imagine that you buy a nice modern Mercedes car to travel in your town. When you open the car hood, you find that there is the typical engine of a WV Golf designed a dozen of years ago. You go to the car shop and complain, and the seller tells you if you have any reason/advantage as the speed limit in town is anyway 50km/h, so what's the issue to have a better engine smile

Cheers
-R

P.S. The RME AES PCIe cards have been recently renewed, but their software is still 10 years old. Yes, it runs, of course.

  • Registered: 2018-06-29
  • Posts: 99

Re: Why are your EXEs still 32-bit? CPUs are 64-bit since decades

This is not about instruction sets but addressable memory.

64 bit makes sense if you need to adress more than 4 GB of random access memory directly.

If this is your use case, you need to wait or look somewhere else.

Otherwise it does not matter. At all.

  • ramses
  • DAW Mastermind
  • Offline
  • From: UTC+1
  • Registered: 2012-10-14
  • Posts: 13,132

Re: Why are your EXEs still 32-bit? CPUs are 64-bit since decades

Such comparisons always lag a bit. Nobody would expect a VW engine in a Mercedes and vice versa.
If RME has a lot of time and no longer knows how they should go with all the time, they will certainly tackle such things. ;-)

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub14

7 Reply by Muffin (edited by Muffin 2023-02-25 22:26:53)

  • Muffin
  • S/Mux specialist
  • Offline
  • Registered: 2021-12-26
  • Posts: 192

Re: Why are your EXEs still 32-bit? CPUs are 64-bit since decades

robpap wrote:

Guys, I hope that you are joking smile

The instructions of x86 do not exist in your CPU (unless your PC is very very old), so they must be emulated using the real x64 instructions, like in virtual machines.

Imagine that you buy a nice modern Mercedes car to travel in your town. When you open the car hood, you find that there is the typical engine of a WV Golf designed a dozen of years ago. You go to the car shop and complain, and the seller tells you if you have any reason/advantage as the speed limit in town is anyway 50km/h, so what's the issue to have a better engine smile

Cheers
-R

P.S. The RME AES PCIe cards have been recently renewed, but their software is still 10 years old. Yes, it runs, of course.

This is a weak argument for switching to AMD64 when there are significant risks with no/little benefits. There are no performance penalties on AMD64 running x86 code on Windows, unlike some other x86 emulations layers on, say, ARM64.

8 Reply by Randyman... (edited by Randyman... 2023-02-26 10:15:43)

  • From: Houston, TX
  • Registered: 2007-05-11
  • Posts: 1,191

Re: Why are your EXEs still 32-bit? CPUs are 64-bit since decades

The driver is native to the OS.  64-bit OS will use 64-Bit drivers for audio I/O.  It's only the TMFX app and the DSP tray (the .exe's) that are 32-bit, and have nothing to gain by being re-coded to native 64-bit code.  Would not provide one iota of benefit for audio performance or quality unless you think TMFX (literally just a GUI interface that controls the hardware's FPGA) will need more than 4GB of RAM tongue

MADIface-XT+ARC / 3x HDSP MADI / ADI648
2x SSL Alphalink MADI AX
2x Multiface / 2x Digiface /2x ADI8
  • Registered: 2021-03-15
  • Posts: 104

Re: Why are your EXEs still 32-bit? CPUs are 64-bit since decades

Hilarious.

  • From: Germany
  • Registered: 2007-04-10
  • Posts: 9,751

Re: Why are your EXEs still 32-bit? CPUs are 64-bit since decades

robpap wrote:

Imagine that you buy a nice modern Mercedes car to travel in your town. When you open the car hood, you find that there is the typical engine of a WV Golf designed a dozen of years ago. You go to the car shop and complain, and the seller tells you if you have any reason/advantage as the speed limit in town is anyway 50km/h, so what's the issue to have a better engine smile

These exe files aren't the engine. That's what you seem to be missing....

Regards
Daniel Fuchs
RME

RME Support's Website