Topic: UXF III audio dropouts on USB 3.0

Man I'm bummed. I just bought a UFX III and I'm getting audio dropouts on USB 3.0. I've tried different ports and different cables. It's a PC Windows 10 machine, self-built. I never had problems like this before with any audio interface before this one including RME Babyface Pro on usb 2.0, UA Apollo on Firewire, and Apogee Duet 3 on USB 2.0 . I'm using the computer as a studio machine mostly and it needs to be able to record and mix without audio dropouts, I use a lot of hardware and have to bounce in real time. I get intermittent errors in the line of 3 numbers on top of the "usb diagnosis" bar in madiface settings control window, and I get audible dropouts of my audio during playback. I need USB 3.0 to work because my main converters are on MADI and those aren't available on the USB 2 of UFX III. Sucks man... I really needed this to work, like solid. My old interface crapped out and I have work to do and people to record. Anybody got any ideas? Should I swap this interface out for a MADI PCI-e card? F*ck....

Re: UXF III audio dropouts on USB 3.0

I’m almost sure this issue is related to the computer (USB port / controller / driver) and not to the UFX III and its drivers. USB 2.0 and 3.0 are really not the same, so it’s easily possible to have no issues with 2.0 devices but lots of problems with 3.0 devices at the same port.

FF 400 - Babyface pro - Digiface USB - ADI-2 (original)
Mac mini M1 - Macbook pro - iPad Air2

3 (edited by FusionGlory 2023-05-01 15:15:56)

Re: UXF III audio dropouts on USB 3.0

oli77sch wrote:

I’m almost sure this issue is related to the computer (USB port / controller / driver) and not to the UFX III and its drivers. USB 2.0 and 3.0 are really not the same, so it’s easily possible to have no issues with 2.0 devices but lots of problems with 3.0 devices at the same port.

What do I do, then? I have several different usb 3.0 ports on my machine. I have tried 2 out of 4 of them. I will continue to test but this just seems like a major problem, the type that usually doesn’t go away… It’s a really nice motherboard from Asus and I have all the up to date firmware and drivers installed. Cables came with the ufx iii. I tried both usb 3.0 cables in the package.

Any suggestions? The features of this box are exactly what I need. No other interfaces says if can do exactly what this one can do. I banked my whole studio crossover on this interface working for me.

Should I get a different motherboard for the computer? Is there a list of compatible working motherboards for RME units?

The issue is I have 16 channels of ADDA’s on MADI, 2 out on AES to my dac, 2 in on AES from my ADC. So I need a “hub” like this unit to bring everything into the computer.

Re: UXF III audio dropouts on USB 3.0

Which mainboard and which two ports did you try, USB3 ports coming from chipset?

Try all USB3 ports. The ports from Intel/AMD chipset are preferred.
Did you read manual ch 40.3? USB3 ports from a 3rd party chip might have compatibility problems.

Keep the driver settings window open, as long as it is open you see, whether there are USB transport errors which could indicate cable issues. But look closely ... "crc5/16" and "crc32" are names for CRC checks, not an actual error counter! If there are audio drops but no CRC errors, then the root cause is another one than the USB3 cable.

If you still have issues, that you can't fix, then I propose you isolate the UFX III behind a dedicated USB3 card with a supported chipset. The Sonnet card with FL1100 USB3 chipset works very well, search the forum for FL1100.

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub13

5 (edited by FusionGlory 2023-05-02 01:19:45)

Re: UXF III audio dropouts on USB 3.0

ramses wrote:

….If you still have issues, that you can't fix, then I propose you isolate the UFX III behind a dedicated USB3 card with a supported chipset. The Sonnet card with FL1100 USB3 chipset works very well, search the forum for FL1100.

Hi Ramses, thanks for the message. I researched the Sonnet Usb 3.0 card you speak about. Would it be ok to use the cheaper $50 one they still make as long as I only plug the ufx into it to keep it isolated? I see they made a more expensive one $150 which seems to have separation between the 4 usb ports on their own controllers. Is one better than the other for this problem, as long as I only plan to plug the ufx into it? Or can I get away with using this cheaper one here? Will this one work ok?

Sonnet Allegro USB 3.0 PCIe 4-Port (Mac and Windows Compatible) https://a.co/d/f8OJ4aF

I ask because it seems you can still buy the more expensive one with isolated ports, but I would rather save $100 if I can use the cheaper $50 card linked here.

Re: UXF III audio dropouts on USB 3.0

OK I have an update: It appears to be processing related maybe because the card will only play back audio at 2048 or 1024 samples buffer size. This is insane for a computer that is capable of so much more, I know that! I used to use it for live gigs at 64 samples and no problems on USB 2.0.

On USB 3.0 I can't playback at all above 512 buffer size. Not even 512 works. It will play back at 1024 or 2048 samples but with crackles. Crazy... Dropouts.

Do you guys still think I will solve my problems by ordering a new USB 3.0 pci-e card? Will it really make that much difference to get it its own lane? I don't have anything else plugged into the USB 3.0 ports on my computer and it's still happening!

I did notice that removing a drive from one of the usb 3.0 ports allowed the UFX III to be seen by Windows on usb 3.0. Otherwise it was only recognized by usb 2 ports. So maybe this is the right thinking, to separate them... But this business with the performance of usb 3 on this motherboard compared to usb 2 which works leaves me feeling pretty bad about my purchase decision which was largely based around switching to MADI and I have 16 channels of used MADI gear I bought recently so I really need MADI to work...

7

Re: UXF III audio dropouts on USB 3.0

4 posts so far and you still haven't revealed if that is an Intel or AMD system, nor the exact model of the motherboard and the used graphics card.

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME

Re: UXF III audio dropouts on USB 3.0

MC wrote:

4 posts so far and you still haven't revealed if that is an Intel or AMD system, nor the exact model of the motherboard and the used graphics card.

You’re right I’m sorry:

Cpu Intel i7 8700k
Ram g.skill 32gb
Gpu nvidia 2080 Super XC Ultra
Motherboard Asus Rog Strix z370-i

Re: UXF III audio dropouts on USB 3.0

From the specs:

Intel® Z370 Chipset :
ASMedia® USB 3.1 Gen 2 controller

ASMedia chips have been problematic in the past, and this board (or the chipset) seems to be from around 2017 or so, this could well be part of the issue.

Regards
Daniel Fuchs
RME

Re: UXF III audio dropouts on USB 3.0

RME Support wrote:

From the specs:

Intel® Z370 Chipset :
ASMedia® USB 3.1 Gen 2 controller

ASMedia chips have been problematic in the past, and this board (or the chipset) seems to be from around 2017 or so, this could well be part of the issue.

Thank you very much for the help! I was afraid of something like this. I am open to replacing the motherboard, but I wanted to ask two questions:

If I install a Sonnett Allegro usb 3.0 pci-e adapter card, will that replace the problematic ASMedia usb controller?

If I need to replace the motherboard to get this system to work, which motherboard would you recommend (ideally compatible with my 8th Gen Intel i7 8700K CPU)?

Thanks!

Matt

Re: UXF III audio dropouts on USB 3.0

This card: https://www.sonnettech.com/product/alle … 4port.html

> If I install a Sonnett Allegro usb 3.0 pci-e adapter card, will that replace the problematic ASMedia usb controller?

Of course, because you mount such a PCIe card to your computer's PCIe sockets on the mainboard.
These PCIe sockets are connected with PCIe lanes coming either
- directly from CPU (preferred) or
- from the chipset (which is then further connected with multiple lanes to the CPU).

Look into your mainboards manual and check which of your PCIe sockets are connected with your CPUs PCIe lanes.
This is the best socket to take.

Normally, this should solve the issue and then there is no need to change the mainboard.

If the issues should persist, then audio drops could also be related to
- bad drivers (DPC latencies)
- graphic card related (energy saving on the nVidia card), powermizer tool might help

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub13

Re: UXF III audio dropouts on USB 3.0

ramses wrote:

This card: https://www.sonnettech.com/product/alle … 4port.html

> If I install a Sonnett Allegro usb 3.0 pci-e adapter card, will that replace the problematic ASMedia usb controller?

Of course, because you mount such a PCIe card to your computer's PCIe sockets on the mainboard.
These PCIe sockets are connected with PCIe lanes coming either
- directly from CPU (preferred) or
- from the chipset (which is then further connected with multiple lanes to the CPU).

Look into your mainboards manual and check which of your PCIe sockets are connected with your CPUs PCIe lanes.
This is the best socket to take.

Normally, this should solve the issue and then there is no need to change the mainboard.

If the issues should persist, then audio drops could also be related to
- bad drivers (DPC latencies)
- graphic card related (energy saving on the nVidia card), powermizer tool might help

Hi Ramses,

Thank you again for your help! I have some news- I bought the Allegro USB 3.0 regular card (not Pro version, I only plan to plug the UFX into it by itself so the regular one should work fine).

Before I go on: Where can I download Nvidia Powermizer? Can you post a link? I got a lot of weird search results online when I searched for that... For now I just selected "maximum performance" in the 3d settings on the Nvidia control panel but I've never heard of Powermizer before.

This is sort of unrelated but might be interesting for anyone else in my exact situation: I originally built this Windows PC in a small itx PC case for traveling and performing live with vsti's. So naturally I used a small gaming itx motherboard. The motherboard is Asus ROG Strix z370-i. It has two m.2 slots and both are connected to PCI-e lanes. Originally I installed a GPU in this machine which took up the only available pci-e 1x16 slot. I do game, and I prefer PC to consoles, so I wanted this machine to be a dual-service portable studio & music monster and also a gaming machine. So I didn't want to remove the GPU. I installed a m.2 to PCI-e adapter card in the top m.2 slot which provides 4x PCI-e access and ran ribbon riser cables to the Allegro PCI-e card. I used to do it this way with my Firewire UAD Apollo interface and a Sonnet Firewire card too, so I knew it would work. But the Allegro card was unrecognized when I installed it into the ribbon cable. The drivers installer is only built for Windows 7 and didn't work on my Windows 10 PC. So I pulled the GPU and installed the Allegro into the actual pci-e slot and it was finally recognized by Windows and the Fresco driver was automatically downloaded and installed. After that I put the Allegro card back into the ribbon cable and it worked! And so then I  finallyreinstalled the GPU and all is well.

So! Back to the UFX: After that few hours of messing around, I'm happy to report that the Fireface UFX III now works on my system in USB 3.0 mode! Before this, it wasn't usually recognized in the known incompatible USB 3.0 ports, and even when it was recognized (usually pretty later after you switched it on), the performance was impossibly bad and I couldn't play back music even at 2048 buffer size without crackles and droupouts. Now as soon as you flip the UFX III on it is recognized and opens Totalmix. I can now playback in my DAW at 512 buffer size no problem. I usually mix at the largest buffer size possible (1024 or 2048) and I also usually record that way as a safety and just use direct monitoring from the interface.

I'll admit I'm a little surprised I can't playback a mix at lower sample rates though. Anything below 256 buffer size and I get crackles. It didn't used to be this way with my Babyface Pro. I could run synths as real-time instruments at 64 or even 32 samples and play with a band or an overdub and feel good latency wise. I guess I'll keep playing with it, maybe there's another setting that will work better.

As long as I can reliably record and mix in this machine using usb 3.0 mode, though, even if I need to be at higher buffer sizes, I'm going to be very happy!

Thanks again for the support and help.

Matt

13 (edited by ramses 2023-05-03 10:01:50)

Re: UXF III audio dropouts on USB 3.0

> I bought the Allegro USB 3.0 regular card (not Pro version,

The Pro version of the Allegro card with FL1100 chip is not available anymore.
You need to get the non-Pro version to get the recommended FL1100 chip.
Newer ASMedia USB3 chips could also run better, than the older versions.
But to be on the very safe side, get the recommended chipsets as you can find in the manual.
And with the Sonnect cards everybody made good experience up to now including myself.

Which MADIface driver version are you using? Maybe try the latest, it fixes several issues after re-write which as necessary due to change @Steinberg/Microsoft (forgot details, was posted in forum):
https://www.rme-audio.de/downloads/driv … _09818.zip


I, personally, can use 32 samples @44.1 and even 48 samples @96 kHz with a big "artificial" project, just for performance test. 400 tracks, 2 VST per track and a few in the sum, in total ~804 VSTs. Playback without any problems.
https://www.tonstudio-forum.de/blog/Ent … cks-de-en/
My PC is 9y old, got a few HW upgrades, but its still based on Intel Xeon 6-core CPU .. not more.

Powermizer Switch is from a Russian dev, look in this forum (extended forum search) for threads with my name ("ramses") and the search term "powermizer" then you find postings which include the link to the tool.

Audio drops can now happen because of other things .. Energy Saving in the BIOS (C-States, etc), Win Power Profile, too high DPC latencies (bad drivers).

nVidia driver settings needs no special settings, maybe only
- Energy Managment: prefer max performance
- Threaded Optimization ON
I have these settings from a thread on cubase forum.
In contrast to the recommendations on Cubase Forum do NOT set vertical synchonization to OFF (DO NOT DO).
Because it helps NOTHING but putting a severe GPU load to your GPU when using applications with Vector Graphic.
Then the GPU works on highest load to achieve frame per second rates over maybe 450 .. although your monitor might only be capable to display 60 fps. So do yourself a favour, keep it on default settings to let the 3D Application decide whats needed.

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub13

Re: UXF III audio dropouts on USB 3.0

Thanks to all who replied with help on this: It seems that the UFX III works fine! It was my computer, as folks suggested... I also updated firmware and current driver here: https://www.rme-audio.de/downloads/driv … _09818.zip

I tried it doing a long mixing and mastering session on my Mac laptop with the UFX III and all my hardware and it worked perfectly with USB 3.0 the whole time. Pulled my graphics card out of my Windows itx sized (1 PCI-e slot only) PC and used the Sonnet Allegro USB-3 FL1100 chipset card and disabled the AS Media USB 3 driver (seemed to make a difference?) in my Windows machine and it all seems to work fine now.

The only thing that is still a minor problem is that the UFX III takes a few minutes to be recognized after turning on with my Windows machine. That's a little weird - Anyone else have that as well, is it normal? Or is that something not working right? Once it is recognized, I can turn it on and off and it is seen again by Windows.

Last night for several hours I had the MADIUSB settings window open and received no errors except 1; At the end there was an error, it was in the center of the three zeros on the top of the settings box. But I never heard a dropout and I was listening to music the whole time. So it seems to be working well. I would like to have no USB errors though... This only happens on USB 3. I wonder what else I can do to improve things on my Windows machine. USB 2 again works fine.

I have done the stuff that Ramses has recommended. I'm not sure Powermizer Switch is working correctly. The switch doesn't look different if I turn it "on" vs just loading the software. Shouldn't matter in this case anyway since I pulled the GPU out to test this and am just using onboard graphics.

15 (edited by FusionGlory 2023-05-31 05:33:39)

Re: UXF III audio dropouts on USB 3.0

I just thought I would recap this topic to let anyone who may find the post know (potentially years from now, as I routinely do with topics!) that I solved it with the help of forum members and RME support.

Basically, in summary, I bought the UFX III not knowing that some USB controllers and ports are incompatible with RME gear. I had a motherboard that had a ASMedia chipset (incomatible). I bought a Allegro USB 3 card and that still didn't work correctly on that motherboard for various reasons.

Anyway, I pulled the motherboard out and totally rebuilt my computer. I have an 8th gen Intel CPU that didn't need to be replaced (i7 8700K great CPU!) so I found a compatible Intel 1151 socket motherboard on eBay that had a Intel (supported) USB 3.0 controller & chipset. I still have the Allegro card and used that in a PCI-e slot. The motherboard I chose was the Gigabyte z390 Elite which has lots of expansion slots and an Intel USB 3.0 chipset.

I can now happily report that the UFX III works completely perfectly on my system! I am so happy that this works. This interface fit my studio like a glove as far as technical digital and analog i/o requirements, which were very specific to my studio.

I have tested it for 2 days; I recorded some test tracks, listened to many records while cleaning & organizing my studio or browsing the web, and even left the system on idling for many hours while I was out and I have had zero errors reported and I have heard zero dropouts or audio glitches during that time as well.

Rock & roll baby!

Also, now I have 30 inputs and 30 outputs here on analog, MADI, and AES (the system can do 188 channels 94 in and 94 out!) on USB! I can't believe this all works so smoothly on USB. But it does. Amazing work RME.

My MADI and AES converters are working perfectly. The system is clocked via the AES ADC on BNC cables and mirrored to all the other units with one of the MADI pieces, terminating at the UFX. The clocking setup is totally solid.

Some things that I did to make sure the system stays stable: Via Device Manager, USB controllers are not allowed to disconnect or "sleep" to save power. All power management settings are maximized including the Nvidia card & drivers I have. And yes, I have an Nvidia 2080 Ultra GPU which is known to cause problems with RME gear, but it seems to be working fine and not causing any problems. I can seem to use either hte USB 3.0 Intel built in ports on my motherboard or the Allegro Sonnet USB 3.0 card, too.

Weirdly the Sonnet Allegro card method seems to take the UFX a little bit of time to be recognized, no more than 2 minutes and most of the time under 1 minute before it pops up in Windows. I asked RME support about this and they said it's normal. Once recognized the UFX is stable and can be switched on/off and is recognized again quickly. With the Intel USB 3.0 ports on the motherboard, on the other hand, the UFX is recognized in USB 3.0 mode instantly. I want to keep the UFX separated from other USB 3.0 stuff, so the choices are either to use the USB 3.0 Intel ports only for the UFX and put any other USB 3.0 stuff (drives, dongles etc.) into the Allegro card, or just put up with the slightly delayed response time of the Allegro card for the unit on startup.

Also, UFX always worked perfectly on USB 2 on my Windows machine to being with, I just wanted the USB 3.0 features because I have MADI gear. And on my Mac, USB 3.0 was always working perfectly to begin with. It was only with USB 3.0 on Windows (which is my main studio computer) that I had problems initially. Everything is now solved for USB 3.0 on Windows here.

Thank you guys! Amazing piece of gear, the UFX III. I am thrilled to own one.

All best,
Matt

16 (edited by ramses 2023-05-31 07:27:17)

Re: UXF III audio dropouts on USB 3.0

Congrats!

FusionGlory wrote:

Weirdly the Sonnet Allegro card method seems to take the UFX a little bit of time to be recognized, no more than 2 minutes and most of the time under 1 minute before it pops up in Windows. I asked RME support about this and they said it's normal. Once recognized the UFX is stable and can be switched on/off and is recognized again quickly. With the Intel USB 3.0 ports on the motherboard, on the other hand, the UFX is recognized in USB 3.0 mode instantly. I want to keep the UFX separated from other USB 3.0 stuff, so the choices are either to use the USB 3.0 Intel ports only for the UFX and put any other USB 3.0 stuff (drives, dongles etc.) into the Allegro card, or just put up with the slightly delayed response time of the Allegro card for the unit on startup.

For comparison: on my system, TotalMix FX window pops up 10s after powering-on.

I tested these different types of connection:
1- directly to an USB3 port of mainboard from chipset (Intel C612)
2- directly to an USB3 port from Sonnet Allegro Pro (4x FL1100) with drivers from Windows 10 (in PCIe 3.0 x8 socket, with PCIe lanes from CPU)
3- directly to an USB3 port from StarTech USB3 card with 2x ASM2142 with drivers from Win10 in (in PCIe 2.0 x4 socket, with PCIe lanes from C612 chipset)
4- though StarTech active USB3 extension cable, https://www.startech.com/en-us/cables/usb3aaext3m
    to USB3 port from Sonnet Allegro Pro

After enabling WDM drivers for all 47 I/O ports it took only 2 seconds more, 12s (tested in #4).

Win10 Pro 22H2, MADIface driver 0.9818.

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub13

Re: UXF III audio dropouts on USB 3.0

ramses wrote:

Congrats!

FusionGlory wrote:

Weirdly the Sonnet Allegro card method seems to take the UFX a little bit of time to be recognized, no more than 2 minutes and most of the time under 1 minute before it pops up in Windows. I asked RME support about this and they said it's normal. Once recognized the UFX is stable and can be switched on/off and is recognized again quickly. With the Intel USB 3.0 ports on the motherboard, on the other hand, the UFX is recognized in USB 3.0 mode instantly. I want to keep the UFX separated from other USB 3.0 stuff, so the choices are either to use the USB 3.0 Intel ports only for the UFX and put any other USB 3.0 stuff (drives, dongles etc.) into the Allegro card, or just put up with the slightly delayed response time of the Allegro card for the unit on startup.

For comparison: on my system, TotalMix FX window pops up 10s after powering-on.

I tested these different types of connection:
1- directly to an USB3 port of mainboard from chipset (Intel C612)
2- directly to an USB3 port from Sonnet Allegro Pro (4x FL1100) with drivers from Windows 10 (in PCIe 3.0 x8 socket, with PCIe lanes from CPU)
3- directly to an USB3 port from StarTech USB3 card with 2x ASM2142 with drivers from Win10 in (in PCIe 2.0 x4 socket, with PCIe lanes from C612 chipset)
4- though StarTech active USB3 extension cable, https://www.startech.com/en-us/cables/usb3aaext3m
    to USB3 port from Sonnet Allegro Pro

After enabling WDM drivers for all 47 I/O ports it took only 2 seconds more, 12s (tested in #4).

Win10 Pro 22H2, MADIface driver 0.9818.

Interesting. Thank you for sharing. Do you have any tips as to how to get my device recognition time speed down to where you are at on my Allegro card? It does get recognized super fast on the Intel built in ports, but on the Sonnet card it takes 1 to 2 minutes.

This is the motherboard I am using: Gigabyte Aorus z390 Elite. The Sonnet USB 3 card is plugged into PCI-e 1_1 port (the first PCI-ex1 port, there are 4, there are also PCI-e 1x16 and PCI-e 1X4 slots on this board. I am using PCI-e 1X16 for GPU and PCI-e 1_2 for Sonnet firewire card. So I have 3 PCI-e cards installed in total.

I have 2x NVME m.2 drives installed as well. Does not seem to affect anything according to this graph on page 16 of the manual.

chrome-extension://efaidnbmnnnibpcajpcglclefindmkaj/https://download.gigabyte.com/FileList/Manual/mb_manual_z390-aorus-elite_v3_e.pdf

Re: UXF III audio dropouts on USB 3.0

Sorry, no concrete idea than to test .. "trial & error" so to say ...
Check all PCIe sockets, maybe even BIOS update or try Sonnet card in another computer with a different mainboard.

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub13

19 (edited by FusionGlory 2023-06-01 19:56:46)

Re: UXF III audio dropouts on USB 3.0

ramses wrote:

Sorry, no concrete idea than to test .. "trial & error" so to say ...
Check all PCIe sockets, maybe even BIOS update or try Sonnet card in another computer with a different mainboard.

OK! Will do. The BIOS is actually updated already. Thanks so much for your time.

Matt

Re: UXF III audio dropouts on USB 3.0

You're welcome Matt, see my reply through mail.

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub13