• Registered: 2019-04-21
  • Posts: 160

Topic: Buffer performance digiface USB and M1 Macs

About two months ago we upgraded our Mac Pro based recording systems to a Mac Studio with a M1 Ultra, 128 GB, 4 TB. We connect our converters to a RME digiface USB. The whole system is set on 96 kHz sampling rate.
The computer feels really fast. It did several benchmarks and the performance is very impressive. However sometimes the audio systems glitches (typical sound for buffer underrun). Interesting is that increasing the buffer size doesn‘t change anything. I have also installed a software called „live professor“ (which I recommend :-)) This software shows when the audio interface runs out of buffer. Unfortunately it shows this too often. (Sometimes just ever every five, six minutes but sometimes a couple time per minute). This is really annoying, especially when using external hardware. Going up all the way to 1024 Bit (coming from 64 Bit) does not make any difference. The clicks appear with any daws, with or without LiveProfessor and even just with simple playback software like preview or Apple Music.
Do you have an idea what to do?

2 Reply by oli77sch (edited by oli77sch 2023-05-07 08:13:57)

  • Registered: 2016-06-14
  • Posts: 1,142

Re: Buffer performance digiface USB and M1 Macs

Hi
Please post also the informations about your exact software versions:
- Digiface firmware
- RME driver
- macOS
Is the Digiface directly plugged to the Mac? Or is there a hub involved? What USB cable and what length?

UCX - FF 400 - Babyface pro - Digiface USB - ADI-2 (original)
Mac mini M1 - Macbook pro - iPad Air2

3 Reply by mruebsamen (edited by mruebsamen 2023-05-07 08:36:32)

  • Registered: 2019-04-21
  • Posts: 160

Re: Buffer performance digiface USB and M1 Macs

Hi,
Mac OS 13.3.1. on M1 Ultra, 128 GB
Digiface Firmware v18, Driver 4.07
Converters: RME ADI 2 pro fs, 2 x Prism Orpheus (all connected via ADAT)
Digiface is connected va USB 2 directly to the USBc port of the Mac , cable length 0,75 m
All other USB ports are busy as well with (Mackie Controls, USB SSL Keyboard, iLock, RME USB ARC, Elagato StreamDeck, iPad, Fujuitsu ScanSnap, the „nOb“ and a WebCam —> but everything on a dedicated port)

4 Reply by MC

  • MC
  • MC
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  • Registered: 2007-04-06
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Re: Buffer performance digiface USB and M1 Macs

USB 2 ports are very limited, and most probably not separated (in the hardware) at all. The one on USB-C could be separate (it would be on a Windows system). Still one thing to try would be to remove any other USB 2 device and try again.

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME

MC's Website

5 Reply by mruebsamen (edited by mruebsamen 2023-05-07 11:32:29)

  • Registered: 2019-04-21
  • Posts: 160

Re: Buffer performance digiface USB and M1 Macs

The Mac Studios ports are just USBc ports with thunderbolt / USB4 / USB 3.1 „inside“; all on different lanes as far as I remember…
But I will try to remove the other USB devices…

  • Registered: 2019-04-21
  • Posts: 160

Re: Buffer performance digiface USB and M1 Macs

I disconnected all USB devices from my Mac besides the DigiFace USB. But I still have clicks :-/

  • Registered: 2016-06-14
  • Posts: 1,142

Re: Buffer performance digiface USB and M1 Macs

mruebsamen wrote:

I disconnected all USB devices from my Mac besides the DigiFace USB. But I still have clicks :-/

Is it the first time you use the Digiface in combination with the driver 4.07 ('new driverkit generation')?

UCX - FF 400 - Babyface pro - Digiface USB - ADI-2 (original)
Mac mini M1 - Macbook pro - iPad Air2

8 Reply by mruebsamen (edited by mruebsamen 2023-05-08 17:20:02)

  • Registered: 2019-04-21
  • Posts: 160

Re: Buffer performance digiface USB and M1 Macs

I bought the new computer (Studio with M1 Ultra, 20 cores) about 3 months ago. First I had the Beta 4.06 installed. But I had similar issues. Since about 2 weeks I have upgraded to 4.07; but  nothing has improved. I just don‘t understand it. There is a window in Live Professor that shows the performance of the buffer and the dropouts reported by the audio interface. This shows very low values (typically about 10% at 32 bit Buffersize, but then out of nothing dropouts…. There is absolutely no change when I increase the buffersize…

  • Registered: 2016-06-14
  • Posts: 1,142

Re: Buffer performance digiface USB and M1 Macs

mruebsamen wrote:

I bought the new computer (Studio with M1 Ultra, 20 cores) about 3 months ago. First I had the Beta 4.06 installed. But I had similar issues. Since about 2 weeks I have upgraded to 4.07; but  nothing has improved. I just don‘t understand it. There is a window in Live Professor that shows the performance of the buffer and the dropouts reported by the audio interface. This shows very low values (typically about 10% at 32 bit Buffersize, but then out of nothing dropouts…. There is absolutely no change when I increase the buffersize…

Ok, but you never tried kernel extension driver version 3.xx?
And now 4.08 is available.

UCX - FF 400 - Babyface pro - Digiface USB - ADI-2 (original)
Mac mini M1 - Macbook pro - iPad Air2

10 Reply by Eithunsen (edited by Eithunsen 2023-05-09 07:43:18)

  • Registered: 2022-02-15
  • Posts: 14

Re: Buffer performance digiface USB and M1 Macs

Hi @mruebsamen

I have the same dropout/stuttering/glitches problems as you (A lot of people have according to this forum). After I read about your use of Live professor i decided to test it myself. As you, I get a lot of audio dropouts when using the UCX II as audio interface. When I switched to Mac internal audio interface all the dropouts disappeared. See screenshot.

So.. I am no audio engineer, but this doesn't look very thrustworthy. I hope RME will acknowledge that this must be a serious problem with the Mac drivers soon. I'm so tired of this. What to do? Buy something else? Switch to Windows?

https://e.pcloud.link/publink/show?code … FmzHWcHijy

Regards
Terje

  • Registered: 2019-04-21
  • Posts: 160

Re: Buffer performance digiface USB and M1 Macs

I tried different audio interfaces now
- Digiface USB with the USB driver 4.07 —> dropouts
- RME ADI2 pro fs —> without any driver —> no dropouts
- MOTU D112 with MOTU Driver —> no dropouts
- internal sound & monitor sound through hdmi —> no dropouts

12 Reply by MC

  • MC
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Re: Buffer performance digiface USB and M1 Macs

mruebsamen wrote:

I tried different audio interfaces now
- Digiface USB with the USB driver 4.07 —> dropouts
- RME ADI2 pro fs —> without any driver —> no dropouts
- MOTU D112 with MOTU Driver —> no dropouts
- internal sound & monitor sound through hdmi —> no dropouts

MOTU D112 USB is Class Compliant AFAIK.

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME

MC's Website

  • Registered: 2019-04-21
  • Posts: 160

Re: Buffer performance digiface USB and M1 Macs

I'm pretty sure that it's using the MOTU driver when connecting it via thunderbolt.

  • Registered: 2019-04-21
  • Posts: 160

Re: Buffer performance digiface USB and M1 Macs

can I go back to the legacy 3 driver? I thought with Ventura (Mac OS 13) Apple has abbonded kernel extensions...

15 Reply by MC

  • MC
  • MC
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  • From: Germany/Thailand
  • Registered: 2007-04-06
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Re: Buffer performance digiface USB and M1 Macs

They still work.

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME

MC's Website

  • Registered: 2019-04-21
  • Posts: 160

Re: Buffer performance digiface USB and M1 Macs

do I have to deinstall the current driver? If so, how?
Thank you smile
PS: just tried 4.08 (instead of 4.07) the same issues...

  • waedi
  • DAW Mastermind
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  • From: Swiss Zürich
  • Registered: 2020-12-08
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Re: Buffer performance digiface USB and M1 Macs

Delete all RME files manually.
In the applications folder Totalmix and Fireface USB settings
In the system library, system Extensions, folder with big number as name, rme file

Then install the other driver.

M1-Sequoia, Madiface Pro, Digiface USB, Babyface silver and blue
  • Registered: 2019-04-21
  • Posts: 160

Re: Buffer performance digiface USB and M1 Macs

I just installed the 3.28 package. I had to change the security policies in the start up menu.
Since 1 hour no dropout ... yippie smile
But anyways, this costed me many hours of fustration...

  • Registered: 2019-04-21
  • Posts: 160

Re: Buffer performance digiface USB and M1 Macs

a couple days later... The situation has improved since I downgraded the driver to 3.28. But the DigiFace USB still crackles, clicks and pops. Very annoying. As I mentioned above this didn't happen with my PrimSound orpheus and it doesn't happen with the ADI 2 Pro fs and it doesn't happen with the MOTU 112D. So I guess it is the Digiface USB hardware or the driver.
What shall I do now? It's not possible to work with this setup :-/
I need some help...

  • Registered: 2016-06-14
  • Posts: 1,142

Re: Buffer performance digiface USB and M1 Macs

mruebsamen wrote:

a couple days later... The situation has improved since I downgraded the driver to 3.28. But the DigiFace USB still crackles, clicks and pops. Very annoying. As I mentioned above this didn't happen with my PrimSound orpheus and it doesn't happen with the ADI 2 Pro fs and it doesn't happen with the MOTU 112D. So I guess it is the Digiface USB hardware or the driver.
What shall I do now? It's not possible to work with this setup :-/
I need some help...

What are your sample rate and clock settings? Which device is master?

UCX - FF 400 - Babyface pro - Digiface USB - ADI-2 (original)
Mac mini M1 - Macbook pro - iPad Air2
  • Registered: 2019-04-21
  • Posts: 160

Re: Buffer performance digiface USB and M1 Macs

- Sample rate is 96 kHz
- Digiface USB is the master
-  Attachted to the Digiface are 2 Prism Orpheus, and ADI 2 Pro fs
- Taking the Prisms or the ADI2 Pro FS off, doesn't change anything

Connecting the ADI 2 Pro FS directly via USB solves everything... (unfortunately I need all the other inputs and outputs as well)

  • Registered: 2016-06-14
  • Posts: 1,142

Re: Buffer performance digiface USB and M1 Macs

… so the two Prisms and the ADI are connected each with two optical cables, one per direction? And you are 100% sure to have set the three units to receive the clock signal over ADAT (as slaves)?
The crackling noise, where does it appear? On the Digiface headphone out? On ADI and Prisms analog outputs? Have you tried other sample rates?

UCX - FF 400 - Babyface pro - Digiface USB - ADI-2 (original)
Mac mini M1 - Macbook pro - iPad Air2
  • Registered: 2019-04-21
  • Posts: 160

Re: Buffer performance digiface USB and M1 Macs

oli77sch wrote:

… so the two Prisms and the ADI are connected each with two optical cables, one per direction? And you are 100% sure to have set the three units to receive the clock signal over ADAT (as slaves)?
The crackling noise, where does it appear? On the Digiface headphone out? On ADI and Prisms analog outputs? Have you tried other sample rates?

I‘m 100% sure that all converters are set to 96 kHz and receive wordclock through ADAT from the Digiface USB (the control LED is even on) Also it doesn‘t matter if the Prisms are on or off…
It’s basically on all outputs from all converts. I didn’t try the headphones output on the Digiface yet. I‘ll try it tomorrow…
No other sample rate tried because the converters are set to 96 kHz and unfortately it‘s not easy to reconfigure them (since apple dropped ForeWire support sad)

  • Registered: 2016-06-14
  • Posts: 1,142

Re: Buffer performance digiface USB and M1 Macs

mruebsamen wrote:

… (since apple dropped ForeWire support sad)

Beside the main topic, maybe it’s worth a try to connect the Prism interfaces to the Mac again. On my M1 Mac mini with macOS Ventura, I can use several different FireWire equipment without any issues: RME Fireface400, miniDV camcorder…
When I search the web to find informations about this 'dropped FireWire support', I’m usually not very successful.

UCX - FF 400 - Babyface pro - Digiface USB - ADI-2 (original)
Mac mini M1 - Macbook pro - iPad Air2
  • Registered: 2019-04-21
  • Posts: 160

Re: Buffer performance digiface USB and M1 Macs

oli77sch wrote:
mruebsamen wrote:

… (since apple dropped ForeWire support sad)

Beside the main topic, maybe it’s worth a try to connect the Prism interfaces to the Mac again. On my M1 Mac mini with macOS Ventura, I can use several different FireWire equipment without any issues: RME Fireface400, miniDV camcorder…
When I search the web to find informations about this 'dropped FireWire support', I’m usually not very successful.

I just tried...
When I start the Orpheus control panel I get a crash right away :-/
Here is the beginning of crash report, in case of someone has an idea...However, I know this is a RME forum and not a Prism Forum... :-)

Library not loaded: /System/Library/Frameworks/FWAUserLib.framework/Versions/A/FWAUserLib
  Referenced from: <5A8D5FAA-DBE9-3F92-B6C2-35AA98AB6E9C> /Applications/Prism Sound/Orpheus.app/Contents/MacOS/Orpheus
  Reason: tried: '/System/Library/Frameworks/FWAUserLib.framework/Versions/A/FWAUserLib' (no such file), '/System/Volumes/Preboot/Cryptexes/OS/System/Library/Frameworks/FWAUserLib.framework/Versions/A/FWAUserLib' (no such file), '/System/Library/Frameworks/FWAUserLib.framework/Versions/A/FWAUserLib' (no such file, not in dyld cache)
zsh: abort      /Applications/Prism\ Sound/Orpheus.app/Contents/MacOS/Orpheus

Saving session...
...copying shared history...
...saving history...truncating history files...
...completed.
Deleting expired sessions...       3 completed.

  • Registered: 2016-06-14
  • Posts: 1,142

Re: Buffer performance digiface USB and M1 Macs

mruebsamen wrote:
oli77sch wrote:
mruebsamen wrote:

… (since apple dropped ForeWire support sad)

Beside the main topic, maybe it’s worth a try to connect the Prism interfaces to the Mac again. On my M1 Mac mini with macOS Ventura, I can use several different FireWire equipment without any issues: RME Fireface400, miniDV camcorder…
When I search the web to find informations about this 'dropped FireWire support', I’m usually not very successful.

I just tried...
When I start the Orpheus control panel I get a crash right away :-/
Here is the beginning of crash report, in case of someone has an idea...However, I know this is a RME forum and not a Prism Forum... :-)

Library not loaded: /System/Library/Frameworks/FWAUserLib.framework/Versions/A/FWAUserLib
  Referenced from: <5A8D5FAA-DBE9-3F92-B6C2-35AA98AB6E9C> /Applications/Prism Sound/Orpheus.app/Contents/MacOS/Orpheus
  Reason: tried: '/System/Library/Frameworks/FWAUserLib.framework/Versions/A/FWAUserLib' (no such file), '/System/Volumes/Preboot/Cryptexes/OS/System/Library/Frameworks/FWAUserLib.framework/Versions/A/FWAUserLib' (no such file), '/System/Library/Frameworks/FWAUserLib.framework/Versions/A/FWAUserLib' (no such file, not in dyld cache)
zsh: abort      /Applications/Prism\ Sound/Orpheus.app/Contents/MacOS/Orpheus

Saving session...
...copying shared history...
...saving history...truncating history files...
...completed.
Deleting expired sessions...       3 completed.

Sorry to hear that. To be honest, I don’t understand this whole 'no-more-FireWire-thing'. At least with RME devices and its drivers it works. But as we know, it needs a recovery boot and security settings first, then also allowing the RME driver in system settings is necessary. And of course RME published new drivers in 2021 for macOS 11(12,13) for the FireWire equipped units, even Fireface 800 and 400!

UCX - FF 400 - Babyface pro - Digiface USB - ADI-2 (original)
Mac mini M1 - Macbook pro - iPad Air2

27 Reply by mruebsamen (edited by mruebsamen 2023-05-16 13:43:55)

  • Registered: 2019-04-21
  • Posts: 160

Re: Buffer performance digiface USB and M1 Macs

oli77sch wrote:
mruebsamen wrote:
oli77sch wrote:

Beside the main topic, maybe it’s worth a try to connect the Prism interfaces to the Mac again. On my M1 Mac mini with macOS Ventura, I can use several different FireWire equipment without any issues: RME Fireface400, miniDV camcorder…
When I search the web to find informations about this 'dropped FireWire support', I’m usually not very successful.

I just tried...
When I start the Orpheus control panel I get a crash right away :-/
Here is the beginning of crash report, in case of someone has an idea...However, I know this is a RME forum and not a Prism Forum... :-)

...

Sorry to hear that. To be honest, I don’t understand this whole 'no-more-FireWire-thing'. At least with RME devices and its drivers it works. But as we know, it needs a recovery boot and security settings first, then also allowing the RME driver in system settings is necessary. And of course RME published new drivers in 2021 for macOS 11(12,13) for the FireWire equipped units, even Fireface 800 and 400!

I know... That is one reason why I really like RME a lot. Unfortunately other companies are not that responsible to protect customers money...
However, it would be great. If M1 based computers and RME would play a little better (at least forme...)