1 Topic by tstreetman (edited by tstreetman 2023-05-10 20:59:38)

  • Registered: 2023-05-10
  • Posts: 15

Topic: PLEASE HELP: Connecting Fireface UFX+ to Thunderbolt 3 Port

I updated my studio computer yesterday and cannot connect my Fireface UFX+ successfully to the Thunderbolt port on my motherboard. 

Computer specifications:

Processor: Intel I9-13900K
Motherboard: ASRock Z790 TAICHI Intel LGA1700 EATX

I was able to connect to my old computer with a Thunderbolt card and an Apple Thunderbolt adapter, but the adapter doesn't work with my new motherboard with onboard Thunderbolt. 

Can anyone help me understand how I can connect my interface to my computer?

  • Registered: 2016-06-14
  • Posts: 1,142

Re: PLEASE HELP: Connecting Fireface UFX+ to Thunderbolt 3 Port

Hi
Is the cable ready for Thunderbolt (and not only USB)? Since the plugs have the same form factor, not every USB-C cable works for Thunderbolt.

UCX - FF 400 - Babyface pro - Digiface USB - ADI-2 (original)
Mac mini M1 - Macbook pro - iPad Air2
  • Registered: 2023-05-10
  • Posts: 15

Re: PLEASE HELP: Connecting Fireface UFX+ to Thunderbolt 3 Port

oli77sch wrote:

Hi
Is the cable ready for Thunderbolt (and not only USB)? Since the plugs have the same form factor, not every USB-C cable works for Thunderbolt.

Yes, sir.  I used the Thunderbolt cable I was using with my previous studio computer and the same Apple Thunderbolt adapter.

  • Registered: 2016-06-14
  • Posts: 1,142

Re: PLEASE HELP: Connecting Fireface UFX+ to Thunderbolt 3 Port

Ok.
Did the installation of the RME TB-driver went well?
Motherboard works well beside the TB / RME issue?
Does the UFX+ appear somewhere in the system (device manager)?
Could the interface be in class compliant mode?

UCX - FF 400 - Babyface pro - Digiface USB - ADI-2 (original)
Mac mini M1 - Macbook pro - iPad Air2
  • Registered: 2023-05-10
  • Posts: 15

Re: PLEASE HELP: Connecting Fireface UFX+ to Thunderbolt 3 Port

oli77sch wrote:

Ok.
Did the installation of the RME TB-driver went well?
Motherboard works well beside the TB / RME issue?
Does the UFX+ appear somewhere in the system (device manager)?
Could the interface be in class compliant mode?

I used all the same drives from my old computer... everything just plugged in and worked as it should... except the UFX+.  I suspect that it could be due to the Apple Thunderbolt adapter, but I can't be sure, as the UFX+ uses the displayport version of Thunderbolt and my board uses the USB-C connector version.  I have to use an adapter, as I did with my previous board with the Thunderbolt card.

I am not sure how to check class compliance mode, but I will look into that.  The interface did have the connection light illuminated, but it wouldn't work with Pro Tools.

I am at a loss here.  I don't really want to use the USB 3 connection, but I will if I have to... the problem is that it is half the speed of Thunderbolt.

  • Registered: 2016-06-14
  • Posts: 1,142

Re: PLEASE HELP: Connecting Fireface UFX+ to Thunderbolt 3 Port

So you didn’t do a proper installation of the right drivers for the Windows version on the new computer? I highly recommend to do that! Probably it will solve the issue.

„Display port“ in this case is Thunderbolt 1 or 2. Newer versions use USB-C plugs and ports.

Class compliant mode: you can find it in the manual.

USB 3 vs TB: it’s not about „speed“, it’s about bandwidth. USB 3 has enough bandwidth for all the channels. Latency times are comparable with RME drivers and the right USB ports / controllers.
See manual for related details.

UCX - FF 400 - Babyface pro - Digiface USB - ADI-2 (original)
Mac mini M1 - Macbook pro - iPad Air2
  • Registered: 2023-05-10
  • Posts: 15

Re: PLEASE HELP: Connecting Fireface UFX+ to Thunderbolt 3 Port

oli77sch wrote:

So you didn’t do a proper installation of the right drivers for the Windows version on the new computer? I highly recommend to do that! Probably it will solve the issue.

„Display port“ in this case is Thunderbolt 1 or 2. Newer versions use USB-C plugs and ports.

Class compliant mode: you can find it in the manual.

USB 3 vs TB: it’s not about „speed“, it’s about bandwidth. USB 3 has enough bandwidth for all the channels. Latency times are comparable with RME drivers and the right USB ports / controllers.
See manual for related details.

The hard drives, drivers, and everything is exactly the same as the old computer.  I just replaced the motherboard, processor, and the liquid cooling.  The drivers are exactly as they were in the old computer.

I did, however, try reinstalling the drivers and it didn't help.

  • From: Canada
  • Registered: 2016-02-11
  • Posts: 87

Re: PLEASE HELP: Connecting Fireface UFX+ to Thunderbolt 3 Port

Maybe you need a TB3 > TB2 adapter. https://www.startech.com/en-ca/cables/tbt3tbtadap
In my former setup, I used this adapter for my UFX+ connection to a Gigabyte TB3 card and it worked OK. However, I suggest switching to USB as this is the way forward for RME if you search other posts on the forum. I have made the change, still with UFX+, and everything works fine.  Alternatively, if you want to buy the Startech adapter, I have one available.

ADI-2 pro fs be; UFX+; MADIfaceUSB; Startech active USB3 cable; Sonnet Allegro Pro adapter; Win11x64
  • Registered: 2023-05-10
  • Posts: 15

Re: PLEASE HELP: Connecting Fireface UFX+ to Thunderbolt 3 Port

Labdoc wrote:

Maybe you need a TB3 > TB2 adapter. https://www.startech.com/en-ca/cables/tbt3tbtadap
In my former setup, I used this adapter for my UFX+ connection to a Gigabyte TB3 card and it worked OK. However, I suggest switching to USB as this is the way forward for RME if you search other posts on the forum. I have made the change, still with UFX+, and everything works fine.  Alternatively, if you want to buy the Startech adapter, I have one available.

Have you seen any change in latency at all with the USB connection?  I have connected mine with USB at this moment and it is working, but I haven't tried recording a bunch of inputs to disk yet, but it seems to be fine so far.

  • From: Canada
  • Registered: 2016-02-11
  • Posts: 87

Re: PLEASE HELP: Connecting Fireface UFX+ to Thunderbolt 3 Port

I do not do recordings, so I cannot answer the question. FWIW, the MADIfaceusb.exe utility reports no USB errors at 256 buffer size and 88.2 kHz playback via SPDIF input to the Optical 2 (ADAT 2) port.

ADI-2 pro fs be; UFX+; MADIfaceUSB; Startech active USB3 cable; Sonnet Allegro Pro adapter; Win11x64

11 Reply by tstreetman (edited by tstreetman 2023-05-11 01:31:08)

  • Registered: 2023-05-10
  • Posts: 15

Re: PLEASE HELP: Connecting Fireface UFX+ to Thunderbolt 3 Port

Labdoc wrote:

I do not do recordings, so I cannot answer the question. FWIW, the MADIfaceusb.exe utility reports no USB errors at 256 buffer size and 88.2 kHz playback via SPDIF input to the Optical 2 (ADAT 2) port.



I just armed 20 tracks at once with no discernible latency.  I think USB 3 is going to work... does yours identify itself as RME Fireface UFX+ with USB?  Mine doesn't identify itself, instead saying ASIO Madiface USB.

I installed the USB drivers from the website, but it still doesn't really identify itself.

  • Registered: 2023-05-10
  • Posts: 15

Re: PLEASE HELP: Connecting Fireface UFX+ to Thunderbolt 3 Port

I just recorded 40 tracks at once with no hiccups at all... I think that the USB 3 version will work okay.  I would still like to use Thunderbolt, as I spent $500 on my motherboard just so I could have it built in without a card though.

  • From: Canada
  • Registered: 2016-02-11
  • Posts: 87

Re: PLEASE HELP: Connecting Fireface UFX+ to Thunderbolt 3 Port

Same for me: ASIO MADIfaceusb

ADI-2 pro fs be; UFX+; MADIfaceUSB; Startech active USB3 cable; Sonnet Allegro Pro adapter; Win11x64
  • Registered: 2023-05-10
  • Posts: 15

Re: PLEASE HELP: Connecting Fireface UFX+ to Thunderbolt 3 Port

Labdoc wrote:

Same for me: ASIO MADIfaceusb

Thanks for confirming.  I am new to using the USB version, so I wanted to be sure I have things set right.

15 Reply by MC

  • MC
  • MC
  • Administrator
  • Offline
  • From: Germany/Thailand
  • Registered: 2007-04-06
  • Posts: 25,599

Re: PLEASE HELP: Connecting Fireface UFX+ to Thunderbolt 3 Port

tstreetman wrote:

I updated my studio computer yesterday and cannot connect my Fireface UFX+ successfully to the Thunderbolt port on my motherboard. 

Computer specifications:

Processor: Intel I9-13900K
Motherboard: ASRock Z790 TAICHI Intel LGA1700 EATX

I was able to connect to my old computer with a Thunderbolt card and an Apple Thunderbolt adapter, but the adapter doesn't work with my new motherboard with onboard Thunderbolt. 

Can anyone help me understand how I can connect my interface to my computer?

This mobo has TB4 ports, not TB3, that do not support TB 1/2 anymore. This won't work.

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME

MC's Website

  • Registered: 2023-05-10
  • Posts: 15

Re: PLEASE HELP: Connecting Fireface UFX+ to Thunderbolt 3 Port

MC wrote:
tstreetman wrote:

I updated my studio computer yesterday and cannot connect my Fireface UFX+ successfully to the Thunderbolt port on my motherboard. 

Computer specifications:

Processor: Intel I9-13900K
Motherboard: ASRock Z790 TAICHI Intel LGA1700 EATX

I was able to connect to my old computer with a Thunderbolt card and an Apple Thunderbolt adapter, but the adapter doesn't work with my new motherboard with onboard Thunderbolt. 

Can anyone help me understand how I can connect my interface to my computer?

This mobo has TB4 ports, not TB3, that do not support TB 1/2 anymore. This won't work.

Okay.  I want to be clear... I cannot connect to my new computer with Thunderbolt.  Is this accurate?

If that is the case, how can I set my device so that it can be used as a Windows audio device for general use as well?  I have it connecting to Pro Tools as ASIO Madiface USB.  It shows up in the device manager as Fireface UFX+.  It will not show up as an output device in Windows though.

Is there an application other than TotalMix FX for setting things up?  I have never really had any issues until I had to move to USB.

17 Reply by oli77sch (edited by oli77sch 2023-05-11 08:54:46)

  • Registered: 2016-06-14
  • Posts: 1,142

Re: PLEASE HELP: Connecting Fireface UFX+ to Thunderbolt 3 Port

MC wrote:
tstreetman wrote:

I updated my studio computer yesterday and cannot connect my Fireface UFX+ successfully to the Thunderbolt port on my motherboard. 

Computer specifications:

Processor: Intel I9-13900K
Motherboard: ASRock Z790 TAICHI Intel LGA1700 EATX

I was able to connect to my old computer with a Thunderbolt card and an Apple Thunderbolt adapter, but the adapter doesn't work with my new motherboard with onboard Thunderbolt. 

Can anyone help me understand how I can connect my interface to my computer?

This mobo has TB4 ports, not TB3, that do not support TB 1/2 anymore. This won't work.

On some new Macs there are also TB4 ports, but these do support TB2 over the Apple TB2>TB3 adapter (at least in some product specs it’s clearly declared: TB2 over separate adapter). Are there maybe other mobos which would support TB2 on a TB4 port? Or PCIe cards?

UCX - FF 400 - Babyface pro - Digiface USB - ADI-2 (original)
Mac mini M1 - Macbook pro - iPad Air2

18 Reply by MC

  • MC
  • MC
  • Administrator
  • Offline
  • From: Germany/Thailand
  • Registered: 2007-04-06
  • Posts: 25,599

Re: PLEASE HELP: Connecting Fireface UFX+ to Thunderbolt 3 Port

tstreetman wrote:
MC wrote:
tstreetman wrote:

I updated my studio computer yesterday and cannot connect my Fireface UFX+ successfully to the Thunderbolt port on my motherboard. 

Computer specifications:

Processor: Intel I9-13900K
Motherboard: ASRock Z790 TAICHI Intel LGA1700 EATX

I was able to connect to my old computer with a Thunderbolt card and an Apple Thunderbolt adapter, but the adapter doesn't work with my new motherboard with onboard Thunderbolt. 

Can anyone help me understand how I can connect my interface to my computer?

This mobo has TB4 ports, not TB3, that do not support TB 1/2 anymore. This won't work.

Okay.  I want to be clear... I cannot connect to my new computer with Thunderbolt.  Is this accurate?

Not at all. You can not connect Thunderbolt 1 and Thunderbolt 2 devices. Clear and accurate.

tstreetman wrote:

If that is the case, how can I set my device so that it can be used as a Windows audio device for general use as well?

Settings dialog - set WDM Devices to unequal zero. Explained in the manual.

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME

MC's Website

  • Registered: 2023-05-10
  • Posts: 15

Re: PLEASE HELP: Connecting Fireface UFX+ to Thunderbolt 3 Port

MC wrote:
tstreetman wrote:
MC wrote:

This mobo has TB4 ports, not TB3, that do not support TB 1/2 anymore. This won't work.

Okay.  I want to be clear... I cannot connect to my new computer with Thunderbolt.  Is this accurate?

Not at all. You can not connect Thunderbolt 1 and Thunderbolt 2 devices. Clear and accurate.

tstreetman wrote:

If that is the case, how can I set my device so that it can be used as a Windows audio device for general use as well?

Settings dialog - set WDM Devices to unequal zero. Explained in the manual.

The manual is very long.  You are quite rude.

I won't ask for help from you again.

  • Registered: 2023-05-10
  • Posts: 15

Re: PLEASE HELP: Connecting Fireface UFX+ to Thunderbolt 3 Port

MC wrote:
tstreetman wrote:
MC wrote:

This mobo has TB4 ports, not TB3, that do not support TB 1/2 anymore. This won't work.

Okay.  I want to be clear... I cannot connect to my new computer with Thunderbolt.  Is this accurate?

Not at all. You can not connect Thunderbolt 1 and Thunderbolt 2 devices. Clear and accurate.

tstreetman wrote:

If that is the case, how can I set my device so that it can be used as a Windows audio device for general use as well?

Settings dialog - set WDM Devices to unequal zero. Explained in the manual.

I might also mention that it is bad form to be rude to someone who spent over $3000 US dollars on your product.  This is a poor representation of your company, and it makes me a bit sad, as I have convinced a few of my other friends to buy your products for their studios.  I will not make that mistake again.

21 Reply by waedi (edited by waedi 2023-05-11 20:53:50)

  • waedi
  • DAW Mastermind
  • Offline
  • From: Swiss Zürich
  • Registered: 2020-12-08
  • Posts: 4,546

Re: PLEASE HELP: Connecting Fireface UFX+ to Thunderbolt 3 Port

Can't see any rude from MC, his answer was on the point and accurate as possible.
Better not try to blame other for your missing knowlege.
The user manual is long for the UFX+, may be because the UFX+ is one of the most complex audio interface on the planet.

M1-Sequoia, Madiface Pro, Digiface USB, Babyface silver and blue
  • Registered: 2023-05-10
  • Posts: 15

Re: PLEASE HELP: Connecting Fireface UFX+ to Thunderbolt 3 Port

waedi wrote:

Can't see any rude from MC, his answer was on the point and accurate as possible.
Better not try to blame other for your missing knowlege.
The user manual is long for the UFX+, may be because the UFX+ is one of the most complex audio interface on the planet.

The response is rude, but maybe not in Europe... it is rude in Texas for sure.

  • Jeff
  • Jeff
  • Moderator
  • Offline
  • From: USA
  • Registered: 2007-05-21
  • Posts: 4,665

Re: PLEASE HELP: Connecting Fireface UFX+ to Thunderbolt 3 Port

Windows Audio channels are disabled by default, and you can show whichever channels you like. This is in the Settings app (not TotalMix) and you use the WDM Devices -> Configure button to choose which channels are available to non-ASIO applications.

Regards,
Jeff Petersen
Synthax Inc.

Jeff's Website

  • Registered: 2023-05-10
  • Posts: 15

Re: PLEASE HELP: Connecting Fireface UFX+ to Thunderbolt 3 Port

Jeff wrote:

Windows Audio channels are disabled by default, and you can show whichever channels you like. This is in the Settings app (not TotalMix) and you use the WDM Devices -> Configure button to choose which channels are available to non-ASIO applications.

I have to find the settings application.  I haven't seen one in my RME folder.  I looked in the manual and it refers to an application that I don't have as well, but I couldn't find that on the RME website.  WDM Device Configuration in section 7.2 of the manual.

I am a bit lost, so I apologize if it is easy to figure out... hahahha.  All I really have to configure it is TotalMix FX and the menus there.

25 Reply by waedi (edited by waedi 2023-05-12 00:03:29)

  • waedi
  • DAW Mastermind
  • Offline
  • From: Swiss Zürich
  • Registered: 2020-12-08
  • Posts: 4,546

Re: PLEASE HELP: Connecting Fireface UFX+ to Thunderbolt 3 Port

The application Fireface USB Settings is installed by the installer of the driver, a shortcut icon should be there down in the taskbar next to the Totalmix icon.
Otherwise the windows search function will show it.

M1-Sequoia, Madiface Pro, Digiface USB, Babyface silver and blue

26 Reply by MC

  • MC
  • MC
  • Administrator
  • Offline
  • From: Germany/Thailand
  • Registered: 2007-04-06
  • Posts: 25,599

Re: PLEASE HELP: Connecting Fireface UFX+ to Thunderbolt 3 Port

Nearly correct. The UFX+ uses the MADIface Series driver, so the Setting dialog is 'MADIface Settings', which Windows search can not find. You need to type madifaceusb. I am pretty sure it is running and hidden behind the chevron, though.

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME

MC's Website

  • Registered: 2023-05-10
  • Posts: 15

Re: PLEASE HELP: Connecting Fireface UFX+ to Thunderbolt 3 Port

MC wrote:

Nearly correct. The UFX+ uses the MADIface Series driver, so the Setting dialog is 'MADIface Settings', which Windows search can not find. You need to type madifaceusb. I am pretty sure it is running and hidden behind the chevron, though.

I will look for this tonight.  I appreciate this advice.  I am having issues finding the proper information in the manual.

  • From: Germany
  • Registered: 2007-04-10
  • Posts: 9,776

Re: PLEASE HELP: Connecting Fireface UFX+ to Thunderbolt 3 Port

tstreetman wrote:

I am having issues finding the proper information in the manual.

If you are using the printed manual, download the pdf from our website, which will let you search for terms like WDM.

Regards
Daniel Fuchs
RME

RME Support's Website

  • Registered: 2023-05-10
  • Posts: 15

Re: PLEASE HELP: Connecting Fireface UFX+ to Thunderbolt 3 Port

What can you connect with Thunderbolt 4?

Thunderbolt™ devices. Connect devices bearing the Thunderbolt™ logo, including docks, displays, storage, and video capture devices. Thunderbolt™ 3 devices and cables are compatible with Thunderbolt 4 ports.

https://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en … olt-4.html

I can't seem to find the information on what version of Thunderbolt the Fireface UFX+ has built in.  It if it Thunderbolt 3 it should work directly with the Thunderbolt 4 ports on my computer.

The RME website just says Thunderbolt.  I have to apologize, but I am not sure how to tell which version it is.

  • From: Canada
  • Registered: 2016-02-11
  • Posts: 87

Re: PLEASE HELP: Connecting Fireface UFX+ to Thunderbolt 3 Port

tstreetman wrote:

I can't seem to find the information on what version of Thunderbolt the Fireface UFX+ has built in. .

Manual page 116:
The UFX+ offers one Thunderbolt port, being fully compatible to Thunderbolt 2.

ADI-2 pro fs be; UFX+; MADIfaceUSB; Startech active USB3 cable; Sonnet Allegro Pro adapter; Win11x64

31 Reply by MC

  • MC
  • MC
  • Administrator
  • Offline
  • From: Germany/Thailand
  • Registered: 2007-04-06
  • Posts: 25,599

Re: PLEASE HELP: Connecting Fireface UFX+ to Thunderbolt 3 Port

tstreetman wrote:

I can't seem to find the information on what version of Thunderbolt the Fireface UFX+ has built in.  It if it Thunderbolt 3

Thunderbolt 3  uses a USB-C connector...

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME

MC's Website