1 Topic by memopro (edited by memopro 2024-03-20 13:50:36)

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Topic: Babyface Pro FS - White noise from right output channel after startup

Hello everyone!
I have a problem with the right output channel on my Babyface Pro FS
The problem is loud white noise after starting Windows, noise may be about 100 db SPL.
It does it after restarting, after waking up and after starting Windows ie. at any type of computer startup.
The noise is from the right channel of the sound card.
I don't know how many versions of drivers and firmware have come out so far, I've tried them all, it's not one of them. The interface is still under warranty, but I don't know how they will find the problem, it doesn't do it every time.
The problem disappears after removing the usb cable of the interface or restarting Windows.

I just turned on the computer and look what happened: ATTENTION LOUD NOISE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IKiXbhsCVSE

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
There is no sound indication in totalmix. CORRECTION: Тhere is a red indication at the top, just on the right speaker output (can be seen in the clip 0:35 min)
There is no noise in the left channel/speaker.
There is no noise in the headphones.
Hitting mute doesn't change anything.
When changing the volume from the big button, nothing changes.
Tried almost all USB ports, nothing.
When I played music while I had the problem with this noise, the music played normally through the left channel and no music played from the right channel, it didn't play anything at all, it just made white noise.
Built-in sound card on the motherboard is disabled the from the BIOS.
I put the cable from the right speaker into another speaker (JBL LSR305) and there it was the same, it had the same loud white noise.

I have had the interface since December 2021.
Yamaha HS8  set to +4db (12h) i.e. 50%.
RME Babyface Pro FS set to +4dbu.

OS: Windows 11 Home upgrade from Windows 10 Home.
Mainbord:MSI B560M-A PRO
CPU: Intel Core i5-11400
RAM: 2x8GB DDR4 3200 Corsair Vengeance LPX
System SSD: M.2 256GB SSD Team Group MP33

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  • From: Bulgaria
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Re: Babyface Pro FS - White noise from right output channel after startup

Any ideas?!

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  • From: Southern Sweden
  • Registered: 2022-03-28
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Re: Babyface Pro FS - White noise from right output channel after startup

As far as I could see in your YouTube clip, you are on an old driver for the Babyface.
Try updating Windows driver and then update the Babyface.
Then restart everything.

  • From: Bulgaria
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Re: Babyface Pro FS - White noise from right output channel after startup

zyberguran wrote:

As far as I could see in your YouTube clip, you are on an old driver for the Babyface.
Try updating Windows driver and then update the Babyface.
Then restart everything.

Until yesterday I had the latest driver and firmware, in the first post I wrote that I tried all drivers and firmware so far.
Thanks.

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  • From: Southern Sweden
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Re: Babyface Pro FS - White noise from right output channel after startup

FWIW, I have a similar laptop into my Babyface Pro FS and they work just fine with the latest driver and firmware.
Have you tried another PC?
Have you tried with another interface and/or dac?

6 Reply by memopro (edited by memopro 2023-06-26 15:58:50)

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Re: Babyface Pro FS - White noise from right output channel after startup

zyberguran wrote:

FWIW, I have a similar laptop into my Babyface Pro FS and they work just fine with the latest driver and firmware.
Have you tried another PC?
Have you tried with another interface and/or dac?

I haven't tried BFPFS on another computer.
I also have a Motu M2, I haven't had a similar problem with it.

Sometimes it doesn't do this for weeks. I can't pinpoint exactly when or why it does it, but it is very startling.

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Re: Babyface Pro FS - White noise from right output channel after startup

No noise frpm headphones - only from right channel/speaker.
Have you tried changing left and right cable from BBF to your monitors?

8 Reply by memopro (edited by memopro 2023-06-26 16:17:20)

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Re: Babyface Pro FS - White noise from right output channel after startup

zyberguran wrote:

No noise frpm headphones - only from right channel/speaker.
Have you tried changing left and right cable from BBF to your monitors?

No noise frpm headphones - only from right channel/speaker - Yes, exactly.

Have you tried changing left and right cable from BBF to your monitors? - That's what I thought of today too, i.e. the cable is problematic (Stagg SAC3PSXF DL).  I will try this variant but as I wrote above it doesn't do it every time, I just don't know when it will do it next time, it always happens when I have forgotten about the problem and every time it freaks me out.

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9 Reply by MC

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Re: Babyface Pro FS - White noise from right output channel after startup

This seems to be an internal hardware issue. The question is what triggers it. Boot up, for sure, as rebooting fixes it. But what in boot up - data initialization or power up behaviour from the computer power? My bet is power delivery from the computer. Does power go off when the computer sleeps? Most probably, so fix number 1 would be to use an external power supply for the BF. Fix number 2 is send it in for check, mentioning the video and a clear description of the issue. Maybe it can be reproduced. Not a fix but option 3: get a different BF Pro to check that it will not happen with that one. Your local distributor might be able to help with that.

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME

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10 Reply by memopro (edited by memopro 2023-06-26 20:18:20)

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Re: Babyface Pro FS - White noise from right output channel after startup

MC wrote:

This seems to be an internal hardware issue. The question is what triggers it. Boot up, for sure, as rebooting fixes it. But what in boot up - data initialization or power up behaviour from the computer power? My bet is power delivery from the computer. Does power go off when the computer sleeps? Most probably, so fix number 1 would be to use an external power supply for the BF. Fix number 2 is send it in for check, mentioning the video and a clear description of the issue. Maybe it can be reproduced. Not a fix but option 3: get a different BF Pro to check that it will not happen with that one. Your local distributor might be able to help with that.

Thanks for the reply!
Apart from restarting, unplugging and plugging in the USB cable, it still fixes the problem!

I think I'll try the option with an external power supply.

P.S. Now I try, put the computer to sleep, turn it off, restart it, but the problem does not appear. Let's see when it shows up again.

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  • Registered: 2013-10-28
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Re: Babyface Pro FS - White noise from right output channel after startup

I recently changed my PC motherboard and this started happening. Exactly as the OP said. White noise on the right channel on max. volume. Unplugging the USB fixes it, but it can happen any time on startup.
To the OP: does it also happen with USB2 port? I only tried it with USB3 until now.

  • From: Bulgaria
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Re: Babyface Pro FS - White noise from right output channel after startup

anoise wrote:

I recently changed my PC motherboard and this started happening. Exactly as the OP said. White noise on the right channel on max. volume. Unplugging the USB fixes it, but it can happen any time on startup.
To the OP: does it also happen with USB2 port? I only tried it with USB3 until now.

Both USB2 and USB3 had the problem.


After my last post here, I immediately bought an external power supply ie. July 2023
I bought a mid-range external power supply, with the voltage and amperage recommended by RME.
The problem has since disappeared.
Thanks to (MC) Matthias Carstens for the tip!

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Re: Babyface Pro FS - White noise from right output channel after startup

I see, thanks. I wonder if there is a setting in the UEFI, that maybe fixes this...
By the way, using the external power supply, does the Babyface turn off with the PC, or it remains powered on all the time? I know it's not an issue, but I would like it to switch off with the PC.

14 Reply by MC

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Re: Babyface Pro FS - White noise from right output channel after startup

It stays on all time. Use a Master/Slave power socket to switch the BF PS on and off when the computer goes on/off.

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME

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Re: Babyface Pro FS - White noise from right output channel after startup

Just wild speculation, I wonder if this issue could be fixed via firmware, by delaying the power delivery to the Babyface on PC startup or something similar? Maybe power spikes on startup are the cause... with my old mainboard there were no issues.

16 Reply by MC

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Re: Babyface Pro FS - White noise from right output channel after startup

The BF Pro has softstart and does not cause high inrush currents on boot.

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME

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Re: Babyface Pro FS - White noise from right output channel after startup

anoise wrote:

I see, thanks. I wonder if there is a setting in the UEFI, that maybe fixes this...
By the way, using the external power supply, does the Babyface turn off with the PC, or it remains powered on all the time? I know it's not an issue, but I would like it to switch off with the PC.


I bought an extension cord with a switch for the external power supply of the BF.

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  • Registered: 2013-10-28
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Re: Babyface Pro FS - White noise from right output channel after startup

I have USB-C on my new motherboard so I connected it via USB-C now. Let's see if it happens again.
Yes, I have my speakers connected to an extension cord with a switch, so I will plug the external power also there if the USB-C connection does not fix it. sad Still would be nice to know why this problem exists.

  • From: Bulgaria
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Re: Babyface Pro FS - White noise from right output channel after startup

anoise wrote:

Still would be nice to know why this problem exists.

I think it's from the motherboard, apparently the BF and the motherboard are incompatible in some respects, maybe some default setting is the problem and can be solved by changing the bios as well.

Before, I was with Asrock, with whom there was no such problem.
The problem appeared when I switched to the MSI B560M-A PRO.

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20 Reply by anoise (edited by anoise 2024-01-17 14:59:12)

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Re: Babyface Pro FS - White noise from right output channel after startup

My old (with no problems) and new board are from ASUS, so I don't think it's a brand issue. I hope there is a fix in the UEFI/BIOS somewhere. The number of settings there are overwhelming.
The thing is, for me, the noise blasted only when I started a software playback after the boot, not immediately on PC power on/boot outside of windows.

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Re: Babyface Pro FS - White noise from right output channel after startup

The loud white noise from the right speaker (channel) of my interface has reappeared. I downloaded the latest firmware 206 (Jan 2024) even though I had the same version since September 2023, reinstalled it, unplugged the usb cable and plugged it back in, then clicked on the new 1249 driver to install it, and immediately there was that loud startling white noise from the right channel of my BF.
Then I reinstalled the old 206 firmware and then out of curiosity I reinstalled the new firmware 206 (Jan 2024) to see if there would be white noise but it was gone. But to be sure, in the end I installed the old firmware again so that I don't have problems later. I'm sharing this so RME people know and if they have an opinion to share. Thanks.

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Re: Babyface Pro FS - White noise from right output channel after startup

Are you saying that the noise reappeared even with an external power supply? I understand you have fixed it before with a power supply.
After using USB-C connection the noise did not reappear for me...yet. But this solution is not ideal, occupying the fastest port on my system with a USB 2 device. Good thing I don't need the C port for other things yet. I am hesitant to try to connect it again to a USB A port. That noise is disturbing. I have a power supply ready, but if that does not fix it either...

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Re: Babyface Pro FS - White noise from right output channel after startup

anoise wrote:

Are you saying that the noise reappeared even with an external power supply? I understand you have fixed it before with a power supply.
After using USB-C connection the noise did not reappear for me...yet. But this solution is not ideal, occupying the fastest port on my system with a USB 2 device. Good thing I don't need the C port for other things yet. I am hesitant to try to connect it again to a USB A port. That noise is disturbing. I have a power supply ready, but if that does not fix it either...


Well, it appeared for the first time in 6 months, although I have an external power supply. I had installed the latest firmware and driver. Then I went back to the old firmware. However 2 days ago a loud (pink) noise came from the right speaker, it wasn't like the white noise but it was just as loud, just as I turned the volume down the volume of the pink noise went down, while with the white noise the volume control doesn't work then only unplugging the USB cable helps.

I am writing about this last case for the first time now.

The only difference from 6 months ago was that I had installed the latest driver 1249, now for 2 days I have been with the previous driver 1246 with which I had no problem for 6 months. I.e. now I'm with the firmware ( 206, September 2023) and drivers (1246, September 2023) I had no problem with for 6 months. Time will tell.

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Re: Babyface Pro FS - White noise from right output channel after startup

The problem reappeared. This time I was looking for a different solution to stop the noise. Changing the latency didn't stop the problem, then I opened total mix and with the speaker EQ disabled, the noise instantly stopped.

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Re: Babyface Pro FS - White noise from right output channel after startup

anoise wrote:

The thing is, for me, the noise blasted only when I started a software playback after the boot, not immediately on PC power on/boot outside of windows.

Yes, I noticed that the problem does not activate when I turn on the computer, when I open something, a program or a browser, then the noise starts.
P.S. I went from Windows 10 to 11 together with the mainboard change.

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26 Reply by anoise (edited by anoise 2024-02-29 09:12:16)

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Re: Babyface Pro FS - White noise from right output channel after startup

Interesting, also for me, yesterday the noise came back with a vengeance. PC was on but BF USB 3 cable was not connected because I was installing a new SSD. So, I plug in the USB cable while the PC is on, and start a youtube video. Instant white noise in the right speaker... Totalmix was showing OVR on the right channel main output. So using USB2 or USB3 won't make a difference.
I was using multiple playback channels setup in Totalmix. ASIO playback AN1/2; Windows audio on PH 3/4; Foobar2000 on AS 1/2; Sometimes there were audio glitches after closing the browser, like stuck audio buffer repeating endlessly, until I started audio playback in the browser again. Maybe this white noise is also a similar glitch... So, today I reverted back to a simple 1 channel for all windows output, 1 WDM devices in Fireface USB settings. I am also in Win 11... Let's see if this fixes anything.

27 Reply by anoise (edited by anoise 2024-02-29 09:01:11)

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Re: Babyface Pro FS - White noise from right output channel after startup

memopro wrote:

... then I opened total mix and with the speaker EQ disabled, the noise instantly stopped.

Hmm... I also use the EQ on the main outs and headphones... is the EQ the source for this problem? I don't think so, because I had the same setup in Win11 and Totalmix on the old Motherboard without problems. But who knows, interesting find with the EQ.

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Re: Babyface Pro FS - White noise from right output channel after startup

anoise wrote:
memopro wrote:

... then I opened total mix and with the speaker EQ disabled, the noise instantly stopped.

Hmm... I also use the EQ on the main outs and headphones... is the EQ the source for this problem? I don't think so, because I had the same setup in Win11 and Totalmix on the old Motherboard without problems. But who knows, interesting find with the EQ.

No, I didn't mean that the equalizer was the problem, I just wanted to more point out one solution to stop the problem, it's even more convenient than pulling out the USB cable. When changing other parameters in totalmix, the problem may also disappear, I will try next time.

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Re: Babyface Pro FS - White noise from right output channel after startup

anoise wrote:

I recently changed my PC motherboard and this started happening.

What motherboard do you have?

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Re: Babyface Pro FS - White noise from right output channel after startup

ASUS Prime Z790-P

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Re: Babyface Pro FS - White noise from right output channel after startup

Today, I start the PC, start to play some music with foobar2000 and I hear it sounds different, more low mids. I then disable the EQ on the main outs in Totalmix and the sound goes back to normal. I switch the EQ on again and it is as expected, it is alright. So, on startup, the EQ did some strange thing, it seems there is something going on with it. This never happened before. Maybe that's the source of the white noise also...

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Re: Babyface Pro FS - White noise from right output channel after startup

Only @MC knows but could be a defect in the dsp or ram. Or not....

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Re: Babyface Pro FS - White noise from right output channel after startup

Recently, this exact same issue occurred a few times with my Babyface Pro FS.

My question for RME is: Is it theoritically/technically possible that the white noise would come through the headphone out?

34 Reply by MC

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Re: Babyface Pro FS - White noise from right output channel after startup

As long as we don't know what is going on here - everything is possible.

@vinark: there is no DSP and no RAM in the Babyfaces. But the timing of the used FPGA (which emulates the DSP) could be critical.

@ anoise, memopro, joshvanrux: please post the serial number of your Babyface Pro FS. We need these to find out what exact hardware is inside, then will try to find a fix.

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME

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Re: Babyface Pro FS - White noise from right output channel after startup

my serial number is: 73017877 (the number on the bottom of the device)

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Re: Babyface Pro FS - White noise from right output channel after startup

73000593

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Re: Babyface Pro FS - White noise from right output channel after startup

After reflashing the firmware 10 days ago, the problem has disappeared and the device is functioning without any issues.

I'm using the device with USB bus power. Power settings in Windows 11 are unchanged default settings, so Windows will power off USB after going to sleep.

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Re: Babyface Pro FS - White noise from right output channel after startup

What version of the firmware are you using now, that resolved the issue, and what version did you have before?

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Re: Babyface Pro FS - White noise from right output channel after startup

I was already using the latest firmware version 206, I reflashed this version.
I did update the driver from version 1246 to 1249.

40 Reply by memopro (edited by memopro 2024-03-20 13:53:41)

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Re: Babyface Pro FS - White noise from right output channel after startup

MC wrote:

As long as we don't know what is going on here - everything is possible.

@vinark: there is no DSP and no RAM in the Babyfaces. But the timing of the used FPGA (which emulates the DSP) could be critical.

@ anoise, memopro, joshvanrux: please post the serial number of your Babyface Pro FS. We need these to find out what exact hardware is inside, then will try to find a fix.


My SN:73026740

Thanks for your attitude!


P.S.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IKiXbhsCVSE
Watching last year's clip I noticed something I missed. If you stop the clip at 0:35 min and look closely, you'll notice that there is a red indication at the top, just on the right speaker output. This may help resolve the issue.

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41 Reply by MC

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Re: Babyface Pro FS - White noise from right output channel after startup

I uploaded a test version v207 that has some optimizations and is generated with the latest compiler. It may help - or not, please just try it. If not then we will have to get our hands on one of these units (and can only hope that the error then shows up in our lab).

Windows FUT for BF Pro FS v 207: https://www.rme-audio.de/downloads/fut_usb_bf_v207.zip

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME

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Re: Babyface Pro FS - White noise from right output channel after startup

MC wrote:

I uploaded a test version v207 that has some optimizations and is generated with the latest compiler. It may help - or not, please just try it. If not then we will have to get our hands on one of these units (and can only hope that the error then shows up in our lab).

Windows FUT for BF Pro FS v 207: https://www.rme-audio.de/downloads/fut_usb_bf_v207.zip

Thanks, I've installed it and we'll see what happens.



I have a question for you: I have an adapter according to your recommendation, but the noise has appeared 2 times recently, after about 6 months without a problem. My question is, will it make a difference if I first turn on the computer and after 5 seconds the BF adapter, in principle I turn on the adapter first to power the BF and then turn on the computer.
But if I inadvertently turned on the computer first and then the adapter, could that have caused the problem to occur again?

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Re: Babyface Pro FS - White noise from right output channel after startup

I really can't say, sorry. Right now we can only speculate what exactly happens here, and then what might influence it.

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Matthias Carstens
RME

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Re: Babyface Pro FS - White noise from right output channel after startup

Today I got the issue with the EQ on startup. Steps: start PC, open browser to YT video, start playback, distorted sound, I disable the EQ in totalmix on the Main out, sound is normal, enable EQ again, it's normal. It looks like FUT 207 did not solve the problem. No white noise yet...

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Re: Babyface Pro FS - White noise from right output channel after startup

Removed my post as it was my mistake. I had headphones behind the speaker which hissed as they were on the adat before they had synced. I forgot I had put them there.

Babyface Pro Fs, Behringer ADA8200, win 10/11 PCs, Cubase/Wavelab, Adam A7X monitors.