• Registered: 2023-08-21
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Topic: UFX+ fifo dropouts on clean win11 install

Hi,

So I got a new computer together but I can't even play a normal media file in Audacious (pretty barebone open source music player), it has dropouts every 1-2 second for 1/2 a second. UFX+ was fine on my old i7 4770k, and it still works totally fine on a very old almost unusable laptop running win7.

Its now already been one week and I just can't figure out what to do a part from becoming insane. There is no CRC error but almost all dropouts have a fifo eror.
The only thing I can now think of is to buy a new motherboard. If you have a recommendation please advise.

So for the info, here is my setup (all latest drivers)

  • Gibabyte z790 aorus elite ax
    i7 13700k
    2x 16g Corsair Vengeance ddr5
    473 AORUS Gen4 7300 SSD 1TB M.2
    UFX+ driver 0.9824, fw 54

As you can see its pretty barebone, I have not plugged anything else and not installed anything and was having troubles...although later I installed my old GTX 1050 and an additional sata 3.5 drive, and nothing changed.


And here is what I tried:

  • Adjust power settings to 100%, disable usb selective suspend setting etc.
    Disabled all Win firewall/virus
    Disabled C-states
    LatencyMon (Max interrupt to DPC latency (µs):       71.60)
    Disabled all lan - wifi - onboard graphics (when I installed the GTX as the problems were already there)
    Tried all the usb ports also the ones on my case
    Bought a FL1100 based usb card (listed as fresco logic Usb 3.0 iin device manager, and also a USB root hub)
    Tried disabling the usb i dont need in device manager
    Disabled led lights on mb


Maybe I forgot some stuff I did....

Please let me know if there is anything else I should try. And I'm really open to a new MB as I don't think its the individual components (but I may be wrong here...its just a guess).

Thanks!!!

  • From: Canada
  • Registered: 2016-02-11
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Re: UFX+ fifo dropouts on clean win11 install

You might try Bitsum Process Lasso. There is an audio setup guide here: https://bitsum.com/docs/process-lasso-setup-guide/
I use it on a couple of PC's and like how it works, although these pcs are not doing audio tasks.

I had a problem like yours on my DIY pc built on an Asus Prime Z370-A i7-8700k 32k RAM setup. What fixed it was installing a graphics card (MSI GT1030 2GH LP OC; Nvidia; Display Port x 1 ver 1.4a) and the Sonnettech FL1100 card. USBTreeView is also a handy way to check that your USB connection is on a port without competing items.

ADI-2 pro fs be; UFX+; MADIfaceUSB; Startech active USB3 cable; Sonnet Allegro Pro adapter; Win11x64
  • Registered: 2016-06-14
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Re: UFX+ fifo dropouts on clean win11 install

You could try different USB settings on the UFX+. If you don’t need the MADI channels, maybe USB 2.0 would be the better option.

UCX - FF 400 - Babyface pro - Digiface USB - ADI-2 (original)
Mac mini M1 - Macbook pro - iPad Air2

4 Reply by ramses (edited by ramses 2023-08-21 17:31:11)

  • ramses
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Re: UFX+ fifo dropouts on clean win11 install

Did you disable Win11 VBS / HVCI? https://www.tomshardware.com/how-to/dis … windows-11

Did you disable power saving of nVidia card with powermizer tool?
Some people tell, that these nVidia driver settings are beneficial
- energy management: prefer maximum performance
- thread optimization: enabled

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub13

5 Reply by ramses (edited by ramses 2023-08-21 17:26:13)

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Re: UFX+ fifo dropouts on clean win11 install

oli77sch wrote:

You could try different USB settings on the UFX+. If you don’t need the MADI channels, maybe USB 2.0 would be the better option.

First, it's hard to understand why such a high-performance system - compared to my 9-year-old box - has problems processing the number of channels through USB3.

The difference between USB3 and USB2 is not that big when the system performs reasonably. If it doesn't, you should better look for the reason; otherwise you won't even have much fun with less channels when using USB2.

Side note: also in USB2 mode MADI channels are active / can be routed on the recording interface, only transmission via USB is not possible.

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub13
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Re: UFX+ fifo dropouts on clean win11 install

ramses wrote:
oli77sch wrote:

You could try different USB settings on the UFX+. If you don’t need the MADI channels, maybe USB 2.0 would be the better option.

First, it's hard to understand why such a high-performance system - compared to my 9-year-old box - has problems processing the number of channels through USB3.

The difference between USB3 and USB2 is not that big when the system performs reasonably. If it doesn't, you should better look for the reason; otherwise you won't even have much fun with less channels when using USB2.

Side note: also in USB2 mode MADI channels are active / can be routed on the recording interface, only transmission via USB is not possible.

There was an UFX+ owner reporting some issues in the Facebook RME community where I also take part. Honestly I don’t remember the exact problems he had, but it was related to the USB ports on his computer and it was solved after switching the UFX+ manually to USB 2.0.
And yes, I do know about the still available MADI channels in TotalMix. Anyway for recording purposes, a re-routing using the loopback function wouldn’t be that practical in my opinion…

UCX - FF 400 - Babyface pro - Digiface USB - ADI-2 (original)
Mac mini M1 - Macbook pro - iPad Air2

7 Reply by ramses (edited by ramses 2023-08-21 18:59:19)

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Re: UFX+ fifo dropouts on clean win11 install

oli77sch wrote:

There was an UFX+ owner reporting some issues in the Facebook RME community where I also take part. Honestly I don’t remember the exact problems he had, but it was related to the USB ports on his computer and it was solved after switching the UFX+ manually to USB 2.0.

Yes, sure, and I'm not telling that what you say is wrong. I just think that this is too draconian a measure.
Disabling MADI completely for all time can't be the solution.

He also said that he has the Sonnet card with the FL1100 usb3 chips, with that card it should run if he puts it in a "good" PCIe slot that doesn't share the PCIe lanes with other components.
If all this does not work, then to me it is a sign that something is not yet set up properly.

Since he mentioned Windows 11 and we should all know that the core virtualization is junk and steals so much performance that even gamers are squeaking and 6 year old good systems have to be disposed of ... well, I would first look in that area. This certainly also has an impact on applications with near-realtime requirements.

I don't know how new the system is and how or where he bought it ... instead of bringing USB 2.0 into play here I would rather push the matter in the direction of wanting to find out whether the system fully supports a UFX+ or not.

And if not, exchange it as soon as possible, if there is any possibility.

At least I would slowly dispose of the motherboard and find out which motherboards are good, get a working one and sell the Gigabyte. Gigabyte would not be my first choice anyway.
I heard so many bad things from somebody on recording.de, commodity stuff in the area of SATA and SSDs, that did not run properly .. Also during the Spectre Meltdown issues .. vendors like Supermicro and Asus were able to deliver BIOS versions with firmware updates ... many other vendors acted much delayed or not at all.

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub13
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Re: UFX+ fifo dropouts on clean win11 install

Ramses, I'm absolutely with you. My suggestion to try USB 2.0 was rather meant as a try on the way to find the reason for the issue (and also as a temporary solution - if it helps at all...).

UCX - FF 400 - Babyface pro - Digiface USB - ADI-2 (original)
Mac mini M1 - Macbook pro - iPad Air2

9 Reply by gimme_donuts (edited by gimme_donuts 2023-08-22 03:24:34)

  • Registered: 2023-08-21
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Re: UFX+ fifo dropouts on clean win11 install

Thanks all for the replies!

oli77sch wrote:

You could try different USB settings on the UFX+. If you don’t need the MADI channels, maybe USB 2.0 would be the better option.

Not really sure what/where these settings are? How can I switch it, I couldn't find it in the manual.

ramses wrote:

Did you disable Win11 VBS / HVCI?

Did you disable power saving of nVidia card with powermizer tool?
Some people tell, that these nVidia driver settings are beneficial
- energy management: prefer maximum performance
- thread optimization: enabled

VBS was not enabled.
I only have the drivers of Nvidia installed, didnt install powermizer.

ramses wrote:

I don't know how new the system is and how or where he bought it ... instead of bringing USB 2.0 into play here I would rather push the matter in the direction of wanting to find out whether the system fully supports a UFX+ or not.

At least I would slowly dispose of the motherboard and find out which motherboards are good, get a working one and sell the Gigabyte. Gigabyte would not be my first choice anyway.
I heard so many bad things from somebody on recording.de, commodity stuff in the area of SATA and SSDs, that did not run properly .. Also during the Spectre Meltdown issues .. vendors like Supermicro and Asus were able to deliver BIOS versions with firmware updates ... many other vendors acted much delayed or not at all.

I put the system together myself, as I did with my 4770k 10 years ago.  I'm ready to change motherboard as it seems you also think this might be the last resolt, do you have a suggestion? I was thinking to try a B760 chipset mb instead of a z790... it seems the z790 is the favored chipset with the 13700k, but no idea how that fares with the RME so its all just supposition. I just want the RME to work. I can't get  Supermicro boards though, they are not available here.

10 Reply by MC

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Re: UFX+ fifo dropouts on clean win11 install

Ever tried a different USB3 cable?

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME

MC's Website

11 Reply by ramses (edited by ramses 2023-08-22 04:43:56)

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Re: UFX+ fifo dropouts on clean win11 install

gimme_donuts wrote:

Thanks all for the replies!

ramses wrote:

Did you disable power saving of nVidia card with powermizer tool?
Some people tell, that these nVidia driver settings are beneficial
- energy management: prefer maximum performance
- thread optimization: enabled

I only have the drivers of Nvidia installed, didnt install powermizer.

Powermizer is a tool from a Russian developer to disable energy saving in the nVidia graphic card, it is not a driver.

MC wrote:

Ever tried a different USB3 cable?

Regarding MC's suggestion to take another USB3 cable.

If you open the driver setting dialogue and keep it open, do you see USB transport errors? Increasing CRC counter…

How long is your USB3 cable? I made good experiences with Lindy premium cables, which have triple shielding.
https://www.lindy.de/3m-USB-3-2-Typ-A-a … ;ci=800504

Maximum allowed length for USB3 cable: 3 m.

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub13
  • Registered: 2023-08-21
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Re: UFX+ fifo dropouts on clean win11 install

cable is defenitely not an issue, as I can use the ufx with this cable on an old laptop with no problem.

Powermizer is included in the drivers of nvidia...i didn't install it. I can try, but really doubt this is the issue, as the dropouts are the same as when I had no nvidia card installed.

As i said in initial post there are no crc error...only fifo error next to diagnosis.

13 Reply by MC

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Re: UFX+ fifo dropouts on clean win11 install

The fact that the cable works on the other system does NOT rule it out. The new mb has other USB chips/electronics and might interact differently with this cable. So trying another one is needed to rule that out.

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME

MC's Website

14 Reply by gimme_donuts (edited by gimme_donuts 2023-08-22 05:18:42)

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Re: UFX+ fifo dropouts on clean win11 install

I just tried another cable. The fifo error doesn't come as often now....edit: after a reboot the fifo erors are the same. One for every dropout or almost.

15 Reply by MC

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Re: UFX+ fifo dropouts on clean win11 install

Ok. BTW, you can switch the unit into USB 2 mode via the display (Options, Interface Mode), or in case of Auto simply use a USB2 cable.

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME

MC's Website

16 Reply by gimme_donuts (edited by gimme_donuts 2023-08-22 05:49:21)

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Re: UFX+ fifo dropouts on clean win11 install

MC wrote:

Ok. BTW, you can switch the unit into USB 2 mode via the display (Options, Interface Mode), or in case of Auto simply use a USB2 cable.

Ok i tried, but somehow I can't change it..it stays in Auto...turning the "2" button doesn't do anything to alter the setting. And also this makes the driver crash (fiddling on the display I guess). I rebooted and tried again and the same happened. First it just hangs/freezes (Madiface setting window) so I  turn the ufx off and back on, and then it says unrecognised USB hardware. After a reboot it gets recognised again.

17 Reply by MC

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Re: UFX+ fifo dropouts on clean win11 install

The Setting is greyed out. Unplug USB then you can change it.

Fiddling on the display makes the driver crash? With something that doesn't even do something? That doesn't make sense.

And can you please verify that you are on the latest firmare? USB54 has been there since 2021. But the latest version is USB 54 DSP 46 Thunderbolt 111. The Firmware Update Tool gives info on all versions.

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME

MC's Website

  • Registered: 2023-08-21
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Re: UFX+ fifo dropouts on clean win11 install

MC wrote:

The Setting is greyed out. Unplug USB then you can change it.

Fiddling on the display makes the driver crash? With something that doesn't even do something? That doesn't make sense.

And can you please verify that you are on the latest firmare? USB54 has been there since 2021. But the latest version is USB 54 DSP 46 Thunderbolt 111. The Firmware Update Tool gives info on all versions.

Ok tried usb 2, and usb 3 mode. Both the same. I tried to use my other usb ports (also usb2 ports) while using the usb2 mode, but its the same.

I dont know, maybe i accidentally changed a setting...how the buttons work were a bit confusing at the start, I never used the display options before i only use it to check volume. I now tried to use it again just clicking a few times and no crash..

Confirmed on drivers, 54 usb and 46 dsp soft...

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Re: UFX+ fifo dropouts on clean win11 install

I'm going to try and reinstall windows, with only ram, 1 dd and cpu. Do all the tweaking (disable all I dont need) then install the rme.

If there are still problems I will just have to move on...I can't waiste more time on this. I can think of 2 ways which will cost the same, but of course the outcome is unknown, and thats where I hope maybe you can help:

1. get a thunderbolt card. for 100 usd I can get an expansion card for my motherboard. The worry is that there still will be problems because the system is the same.

2. Change motherboard. I will probably loose 100usd on the resale if I want to get rid of it quick. I still haven't decided on a contender.

Thanks

20 Reply by vinark (edited by vinark 2023-08-22 10:20:26)

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Re: UFX+ fifo dropouts on clean win11 install

Sure you are on the latest bios for your Mobo? This does sound like something a bios update could fix. Also can you try win 10?
And can you disable the energy saving cores in the bios or with process lasso (google it)?
Or even disable hyper threading in the bios.

Vincent, Amsterdam
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  • ramses
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Re: UFX+ fifo dropouts on clean win11 install

BIOS and possibly also chipset driver.
But then at least the sonnet card should work with FL1100.

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub13

22 Reply by gimme_donuts (edited by gimme_donuts 2023-08-22 11:57:50)

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Re: UFX+ fifo dropouts on clean win11 install

vinark wrote:

Sure you are on the latest bios for your Mobo? This does sound like something a bios update could fix. Also can you try win 10?
And can you disable the energy saving cores in the bios or with process lasso (google it)?
Or even disable hyper threading in the bios.

I double checked earlier that I was on latest bios version....
In the Bios I disabled hyper-treading and set e-cores to 0, didn't change anything.
I could try to install win10, but the goal of this setup is to hold for the next 10 years...and win10 is going unsupported  in 2025...so its not a good solution.


ramses wrote:

BIOS and possibly also chipset driver.
But then at least the sonnet card should work with FL1100.

I already have an expansion card with the fl1100 chipset. can't buy the sonnet here.

  • mkok
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Re: UFX+ fifo dropouts on clean win11 install

I can’t see it being win 11 as many of us have it running ok. Latency mon looks to be ok as well. Is that after running it a long time? What does it show if you run with the glitches happening?

Babyface Pro Fs, Behringer ADA8200, win 10/11 PCs, Cubase/Wavelab, Adam A7X monitors.

24 Reply by gimme_donuts (edited by gimme_donuts 2023-08-22 13:01:24)

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Re: UFX+ fifo dropouts on clean win11 install

mkok wrote:

I can’t see it being win 11 as many of us have it running ok. Latency mon looks to be ok as well. Is that after running it a long time? What does it show if you run with the glitches happening?

It was run 10min after a bootup.

When running, dpc latency still stays under 85(µs), but the interrupt to process latency was many times very high above between 1000 and 4000(µs). It states:

Conclusion: Your system appears to be having trouble handling real-time audio and other tasks. You are likely to experience buffer underruns appearing as drop outs, clicks or pops. One problem may be related to power management, disable CPU throttling settings in Control Panel and BIOS setup. Check for BIOS updates.

But from what I understand, in windows I already set min perf to 100% and max to 100%, so no throttling. Additionally now under Group policies I enabled the tun off power throttling option, but after a reboot its the same. Also my cpu stays very cool below 42 degrees Celcius. C-states also disabled, and I have found a new "core parking" feature and it wont use it anymore. Not sure what else can be changed.

EDIT: I rerun latencymon for 2min. after disabling core parking while playing music with audacious, and now all the stats are very low, but I still have the same audio dropouts:

Highest measured interrupt to process latency (µs):   101.10
Average measured interrupt to process latency (µs):   3.590788

Highest measured interrupt to DPC latency (µs):       99.60
Average measured interrupt to DPC latency (µs):       1.675251

25 Reply by MC

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Re: UFX+ fifo dropouts on clean win11 install

I think you did not mention that you have set the power plan to High Power or High Performance? That is not equal to setting the CPU min to 100%.

Also at what buffer size you have these drop outs? Does changing it change the behaviour?

Otherwise this is really strange. You did everything correct from the start, it seems, and latest with the additional USB card it should have worked.

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME

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26 Reply by gimme_donuts (edited by gimme_donuts 2023-08-22 13:06:11)

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Re: UFX+ fifo dropouts on clean win11 install

MC wrote:

I think you did not mention that you have set the power plan to High Power or High Performance? That is not equal to setting the CPU min to 100%.

Also at what buffer size you have these drop outs? Does changing it change the behaviour?

Otherwise this is really strange. You did everything correct from the start, it seems, and latest with the additional USB card it should have worked.

actually in win11 its the same..i'm using the high performance, and you can set the percentages in advanced settings...

dropouts happen with all buffer size 64 to 2048


btw the core parking settings are here, seems pretty useful, just didnt solve the dropouts but only the  interrupt latency spikes: https://gigperformer.com/docs/ultimate- … rking.html

27 Reply by MC

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Re: UFX+ fifo dropouts on clean win11 install

I don't like to encourage people editing the registry. Especially when there are much better and less dangerous ways to do it.

Download the PowerSettingsExplorer and edit the same value found under CPU Power Management. You can also make it visible there for the Windows dialog.

https://forums.guru3d.com/threads/windo … ty.416058/

A second alternative with also very powerful power plan edition capabilities is Quick CPU:

https://coderbag.com/product/quickcpu?fw=upd

Here you can directly see in a graphics panel how many cores are currently in a parked state. On my notebook the mentioned parameter doesn't work, the CPU will not change its parking behaviour. That is somehow expected as not all settings in the power plan are always active/valid with modern CPUs.

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME

MC's Website

28 Reply by mkok (edited by mkok 2023-08-22 14:51:10)

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Re: UFX+ fifo dropouts on clean win11 install

There is a hidden ultimate power plan. Google how to enable it (can’t remember of the top of my head)

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Re: UFX+ fifo dropouts on clean win11 install

I understand about win11, but if win10 would work that would exclude hardware problems.

Vincent, Amsterdam
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Re: UFX+ fifo dropouts on clean win11 install

I installed win10 and the dropouts are exactly the same.

I'm done tweaking, i bought the rme because I didn't want to waste time on exactly that...its a pity i couldn't find where the conflict was.

As there was no comment on thunderbolt vs a new motherboard, I'll just go with a new motherboard. I see scan uk using the asus prime z790p wifi in their build, so I'm going with that, although I' have preferred something cheaper for the loss of exchange (Asus tuf gaming b760m plus is 1/3rd cheaper here).

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Re: UFX+ fifo dropouts on clean win11 install

Good luck!!!!!

Vincent, Amsterdam
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BFpro fs, 2X HDSP9652 ADI-8AE, 2X HDSP9632

32 Reply by gimme_donuts (edited by gimme_donuts 2023-08-24 07:18:17)

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Re: UFX+ fifo dropouts on clean win11 install

Ok so I got the Asus board, and no more dropouts! 

Thanks everyone for the help!

Wasn't all glitter though, the first install of the RME drivers somehow failed, after the install reboot, the UFX was not recognized/showed error in device manager,  scared me real bad. But after a reinstall of the drivers, I finally have sound with no dropouts, and I tested an additional reboot, and all still works fine.

The board feels like a downgrade from the gigabyte board, but the UFX is working, so whatever.

Additionally I used this occasion to use some new thermal paste on the CPU (Thermalright tf8), and the base temperature decreased by around 6-8 degree Celsius to 32-34 degrees! I bought the smallest 1.2g and I already used it on 2 CPUs, and seems like I still could do 2...really worth it, although its a bit of a pain to spread on the CPU.

33 Reply by ramses (edited by ramses 2023-08-24 08:23:09)

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Re: UFX+ fifo dropouts on clean win11 install

gimme_donuts wrote:

Ok so I got the Asus board, and no more dropouts!

Congrats.

Which ASUS board works for you? In this thread, at least two different Asus mainboards have been mentioned.

Model name and link to the product, thanks.

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub13
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Re: UFX+ fifo dropouts on clean win11 install

ramses wrote:
gimme_donuts wrote:

Ok so I got the Asus board, and no more dropouts!

Congrats.

Which ASUS board works for you? In this thread, at least two different Asus mainboards have been mentioned.

Model name and link to the product, thanks.

I got the Asus prime z790p wifi