• Registered: 2007-06-04
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Topic: Is the RME ASIO driver or even ASIO in general a fake?

Today I stumbled on some strange behaviour using a Fireface UC soundcard:

JRiver MC plays a 96 kHz track by RME Asio to the headphone channels (7+8). Everything sounds ok so far as expected.
Now I start Foobar and play a 44.1 kHz track by a Windows driver (non-exclusive) also to the headphone channels. And now I hear both music tracks playing concurrently. Each track sounds correct for itself.

A further investigation shows:
- When an exclusive Windows driver is selected in Foobar it does not play. Only with non-exclusive Windows driver
- JRMC switches 96 kHz with the given track, Fireface Settings shows 96 kHz. Also with parallel Foobar playback
- starting an Asio playback with 44.1 kHz switches the soundcard to 44.1 kHz. Playing a 96 kHz track in parallel with Foobar sounds correct
- playing with Windows sound first gets stopped when Asio starts too but Asio does not stop when Windows sound starts too

So this means:
- Windows detects a playback by Asio and its actual samplerate
- a parallel non-exclusive playback gets converted by SRC to the Asio samplerate
- the Asio playback and the resampled Windows sound playback get mixed and sent together to the soundcard
- thus obviously the Asio playback is not playing exclusively
- the Asio playback is running thru the Windows mixer (otherwise there would be playback trouble)

I have always understood the Asio descriptions as if Asio will exclusivley play sound without any interference from Windows.
So the Asio playback may be disturbed if whatever happens on Windows side.
Of course is may be possible to disable the Fireface in Windows sound (I have not found an according possibility in the Fireface options).

Can someone explain what is going on here? Is there a parameter which prevents Windows sound from using the same channels/soundcard (Asio exclusive mode)? How does the mixer behave in case of clipping? Can Windows sound influence the timing?

BR
Uli

  • Kubrak
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Re: Is the RME ASIO driver or even ASIO in general a fake?

ASIO drivers may be exclusive or non-exclusive. RME ASIO driver is non-exclusive.

You may choose in Win which output device it uses. You may set how many channels are visible to Windows in RME driver. Possibly if you set 0, it might make Win not use RME device at all. I am not sure, if it stops Win using it.

3 Reply by mkok (edited by mkok 2023-08-31 22:15:12)

  • mkok
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Re: Is the RME ASIO driver or even ASIO in general a fake?

It’s the wdm that is allowed to play at the same time. It’s a feature of TotalMix which is very useful. That doesn’t mean it’s fake asio

Babyface Pro Fs, Behringer ADA8200, win 10/11 PCs, Cubase/Wavelab, Adam A7X monitors.

4 Reply by unpluggged (edited by unpluggged 2023-08-31 21:06:19)

  • Registered: 2023-06-30
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Re: Is the RME ASIO driver or even ASIO in general a fake?

uli_bru wrote:

Can someone explain what is going on here?

RME's ASIO driver is multi-client. The WDM driver that is presented to Windows is just a wrapper, so all audio goes through the ASIO driver. It's all explained in the documentation.

Fireface UCX II + ARC USB > ADI-2 Pro FS R BE > Neumann KH 750 DSP + MA 1 > KH 120 A

5 Reply by MC

  • MC
  • MC
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  • Registered: 2007-04-06
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Re: Is the RME ASIO driver or even ASIO in general a fake?

uli_bru wrote:

So this means:
- Windows detects a playback by Asio and its actual samplerate
- a parallel non-exclusive playback gets converted by SRC to the Asio samplerate
- the Asio playback and the resampled Windows sound playback get mixed and sent together to the soundcard
- thus obviously the Asio playback is not playing exclusively

So far all correct and nothing new (works like this since forever).

uli_bru wrote:

- the Asio playback is running thru the Windows mixer (otherwise there would be playback trouble)

What makes you come to this strange conclusion? It's our driver that does the mixing.

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME

MC's Website

6 Reply by MC

  • MC
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Re: Is the RME ASIO driver or even ASIO in general a fake?

unpluggged wrote:
uli_bru wrote:

Can someone explain what is going on here?

RME's ASIO driver is multi-client. The WDM driver that is presented to Windows is just a wrapper, so all audio goes through the ASIO driver. It's all explained in the documentation.

That's not an explanation and a statement as wrong as it could be. You can easily disable the ASIO dll and still have WDM fully functional.

I also don't see where this (WDM driver is just a wrapper - all audio goes through the ASIO driver) has been 'explained in the documentation'.

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME

MC's Website

  • Registered: 2007-06-04
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Re: Is the RME ASIO driver or even ASIO in general a fake?

MC wrote:
uli_bru wrote:

- the Asio playback is running thru the Windows mixer (otherwise there would be playback trouble)

What makes you come to this strange conclusion? It's our driver that does the mixing.

Many thanks for your answers. I know that the thread title is a bit provocative but I didn't want to offend someone.
At the end there must be a mixer to combine the Windows and Asio sound. And so the mixer can either be the Windows mixer or the Asio mixer. And I have not seen before a description about it. A web search about a concurrent Windows and Asio playback is not helpful.
Now I (assume to) know from Asio4All that it is a wrapper around Windows sound. It mimicks Asio but finally Windows sound is used. And so I wondered that this might also be the case with other Asio drivers and I believe this conclusion is not necessarily strange.

Ok, now one answer in this thread has led me to check again the Fireface settings and there is this WDM Devices entry I have not recognized before as apossibility to switch off Windows sound. And now I have also read the manual again where the multiclient chapter can be interpreted that Totalmix does the mixing job (instead of the Windows mixer). It does not clearly specify this.

So thanks again

  • mkok
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Re: Is the RME ASIO driver or even ASIO in general a fake?

To be honest I thought it was quite clear when I bought my Babyface pro fs

Babyface Pro Fs, Behringer ADA8200, win 10/11 PCs, Cubase/Wavelab, Adam A7X monitors.