1 Topic by theoryzero (edited by theoryzero 2023-09-10 14:45:19)

  • Registered: 2008-08-14
  • Posts: 18

Topic: New interference on RME UCX

Hi all,

I’ve had my UCX for ten years and haven’t had any problems until my latest synthesizer arrived a few days ago. I’ve contacted the manufacturer about this problem as well but a lot of the noise I’ve narrowed down to be caused by the USB connection from the UCX to the PC. I’m still using the USB cable the UCX shipped with. This new synth seems to be a magnet for the interference and noise though. I can even hear an additional noise when my mouse is moving. If I remove the new synth from the system I have no noise.

Here is what is going on in the clip:

0:00 start recording with the synth unplugged from the wall
0:06 synth is plugged in but not turned on
0:12 synth is turned on
0:31 Play a sequence for reference of what the output volume is (Turn down speakers/headphones if you cranked it to listen to the noise!)
0:53 synth is turned off
1:04 synth is unplugged from the wall

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1L3mI8D … dsXH4/view

I’ve tried different audio and power cables that are known to work well with another synth from the same company. No USB or midi connections are made to the synth. I also swapped USB cables for the PC to the UCX. I’ve also tried the synth on multiple inputs on the UCX.

The PC I’m using is a desktop so unfortunately I can’t just unplug it to check the interference like I could a laptop. I bought TotalMix FX for the iPad last night and tried it. In that scenario, with the PC out of the equation, the new synth is much quieter.

I have a DI box coming today or tomorrow. Any other ideas I could try?

  • waedi
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Re: New interference on RME UCX

First thing I would do is listen the Synth with a headphone, the synth has a headphone socket ?

M1-Sequoia, Madiface Pro, Digiface USB, Babyface silver and blue
  • Registered: 2008-08-14
  • Posts: 18

Re: New interference on RME UCX

waedi wrote:

First thing I would do is listen the Synth with a headphone, the synth has a headphone socket ?

Ah yes, I have connected headphones to both the headphone socket and the main outs, no noise in those cases.

  • Kubrak
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Re: New interference on RME UCX

Do you have all devices, synth, UCX and computer plugged to the same wall socket? If not, try that....

  • Registered: 2008-08-14
  • Posts: 18

Re: New interference on RME UCX

Kubrak wrote:

Do you have all devices, synth, UCX and computer plugged to the same wall socket? If not, try that....

Indeed, before making the recording I had moved everything to the same outlet and swapped out my power strip to an Isobar surge suppressor per another recommendation as well.

6 Reply by ss (edited by ss 2023-09-11 14:02:22)

  • ss
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  • Registered: 2023-08-28
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Re: New interference on RME UCX

theoryzero wrote:

Hi all,

I’ve had my UCX for ten years and haven’t had any problems until my latest synthesizer arrived a few days ago. I’ve contacted the manufacturer about this problem as well but a lot of the noise I’ve narrowed down to be caused by the USB connection from the UCX to the PC. I’m still using the USB cable the UCX shipped with. This new synth seems to be a magnet for the interference and noise though. I can even hear an additional noise when my mouse is moving. If I remove the new synth from the system I have no noise.

Here is what is going on in the clip:

0:00 start recording with the synth unplugged from the wall
0:06 synth is plugged in but not turned on
0:12 synth is turned on
0:31 Play a sequence for reference of what the output volume is (Turn down speakers/headphones if you cranked it to listen to the noise!)
0:53 synth is turned off
1:04 synth is unplugged from the wall

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1L3mI8D … dsXH4/view

I’ve tried different audio and power cables that are known to work well with another synth from the same company. No USB or midi connections are made to the synth. I also swapped USB cables for the PC to the UCX. I’ve also tried the synth on multiple inputs on the UCX.

The PC I’m using is a desktop so unfortunately I can’t just unplug it to check the interference like I could a laptop. I bought TotalMix FX for the iPad last night and tried it. In that scenario, with the PC out of the equation, the new synth is much quieter.

I have a DI box coming today or tomorrow. Any other ideas I could try?

I had this issue recently with an old audio interface. I found it to be a grounding issue.

I used to power my MacBook from the thunderbolt connection to the monitor, when I connected a certain synthesizer (Vermona Perfourmer) the noise would appear and I could hear digital mouse noise and cpu noise through the monitors.

I found that hooking the Mac up using the real power adaptor and connecting it to the mains fixed the problem and the noise stopped straight away.

If you’re using a laptop, and your computer isn’t powered in the traditional way or off a battery, then this could be it.

EDIT, just reread this and you’re on a desktop. Apologies

It’s almost certainly grounding related I’d guess.

You could try putting your computer on a different power board or wall socket to the synth too. Or getting a long extension cable to another part of the house on a different circuit breaker to test.

  • Registered: 2008-08-14
  • Posts: 18

Re: New interference on RME UCX

ss wrote:

I had this issue recently with an old audio interface. I found it to be a grounding issue.

I used to power my MacBook from the thunderbolt connection to the monitor, when I connected a certain synthesizer (Vermona Perfourmer) the noise would appear and I could hear digital mouse noise and cpu noise through the monitors.

Yes as you describe it, that sounds like the noises I am hearing. There is a regular pulse and I can faintly hear my mouse when moving it as well. This only affects the input signal. If I mute the input channels (stereo pair) that my problematic synth is on, there is no noise through the headphones, which I can also see on the meters in TotalMix. At this time, I've left my monitors out of the equation, they are not plugged into the wall.

The other two synths on inputs 5-8 are unaffected by this.

A few more observations I've made since my initial post:

1) I have tried doing a direct replacement of the old synth on inputs 7-8 (Sequential OB-6 module), meaning I used the exact same power cord and interconnect cables, and the new synth (Sequential Trigon 6 module) makes the noise there too. Both being the same manufacturer, I would have expected similar noise levels from the two. Wherever the interference is coming from, the new synth seems to be best at picking it up.

2) When I unplug the USB cable coming from my PC to the UCX, there is a whine that remains present but decreases in volume.

3) The non-constant parts of the noise go away when using the UCX in class compliant mode attached to an iPad Air 2. I tried putting the USB cable from the iPad closer to the computer to see if it could pick up any interference but have not been successful.

4) Using a DI box reduces the noise on the new synth quite a bit. Oddly, when I do this, my Moog Matriarch on inputs 1 and 2 starts exhibiting the noise, but to a lesser amount. I can then also hear it very faintly on my OB-6 on inputs 7-8. Access Virus on 6-7 is still silent.

5) I hooked up my Moog Matriarch to inputs 3 and 4, oddly the noise appears on input 4 but not input 3. Input 4 is technically closest to the computer, but the computer is 4 feet away from the UCX. It occurs to me now that I should switch the cables to see if it appears on input 3.

I will try connecting the PC to a different outlet on a different circuit, thanks for the suggestion.

  • Registered: 2008-08-14
  • Posts: 18

Re: New interference on RME UCX

Since removing the USB cable reduces noise and seems to eliminate the interference noises from the PC, I'm looking at ordering a USB isolator.

Looking at older threads, I see Intona recommended here quite a bit for several years. However the cost is high if I'm not sure if that will fix my problem. I was wondering if there are any less expensive alternatives I could try that are still safe for the RME UCX to use?

Topping HS02?
new Hifime v2 isolator? https://hifimediy.com/product/hifime-hi … olator-v2/

9 Reply by ss

  • ss
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Re: New interference on RME UCX

theoryzero wrote:
ss wrote:

I had this issue recently with an old audio interface. I found it to be a grounding issue.

I used to power my MacBook from the thunderbolt connection to the monitor, when I connected a certain synthesizer (Vermona Perfourmer) the noise would appear and I could hear digital mouse noise and cpu noise through the monitors.

Yes as you describe it, that sounds like the noises I am hearing. There is a regular pulse and I can faintly hear my mouse when moving it as well. This only affects the input signal. If I mute the input channels (stereo pair) that my problematic synth is on, there is no noise through the headphones, which I can also see on the meters in TotalMix. At this time, I've left my monitors out of the equation, they are not plugged into the wall.

The other two synths on inputs 5-8 are unaffected by this.

A few more observations I've made since my initial post:

1) I have tried doing a direct replacement of the old synth on inputs 7-8 (Sequential OB-6 module), meaning I used the exact same power cord and interconnect cables, and the new synth (Sequential Trigon 6 module) makes the noise there too. Both being the same manufacturer, I would have expected similar noise levels from the two. Wherever the interference is coming from, the new synth seems to be best at picking it up.

2) When I unplug the USB cable coming from my PC to the UCX, there is a whine that remains present but decreases in volume.

3) The non-constant parts of the noise go away when using the UCX in class compliant mode attached to an iPad Air 2. I tried putting the USB cable from the iPad closer to the computer to see if it could pick up any interference but have not been successful.

4) Using a DI box reduces the noise on the new synth quite a bit. Oddly, when I do this, my Moog Matriarch on inputs 1 and 2 starts exhibiting the noise, but to a lesser amount. I can then also hear it very faintly on my OB-6 on inputs 7-8. Access Virus on 6-7 is still silent.

5) I hooked up my Moog Matriarch to inputs 3 and 4, oddly the noise appears on input 4 but not input 3. Input 4 is technically closest to the computer, but the computer is 4 feet away from the UCX. It occurs to me now that I should switch the cables to see if it appears on input 3.

I will try connecting the PC to a different outlet on a different circuit, thanks for the suggestion.

One more thing you could try, now you mentioned its a Matriarch.

I'm not sure if it will apply to the Matriarch, but I had a Moog Grandmother a few years back, and I remember in the manual there was something about using unbalanced (TS) cables for the output, it didn't like a balanced TRS connection.

I would maybe guess the Matriarch is the same as it's kind of the Grandmother's bigger brother.

So you could try different type of cables perhaps if you're using balanced, or balanced if you're already using unbalanced.

I'm not sure if there's a way to set the RME manually to expect an unbalanced connection, (I'm new to the ecosystem) but perhaps this is something to do with it.

  • Kubrak
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Re: New interference on RME UCX

I do not think using different wall inlets or even different ones on different fuses's circuits would make things better. Worse is more expectable....

You might try to decrease the area of grounds to make effect of ground loops lower. Looped ground work as antenae and catches radio "broadcast" of your PC, mouse, disc and so....

Try to "join" as much cabling together.

Also trying TS cables instead of TRS, that has suggested ss, seems to be good idea.

11 Reply by MC

  • MC
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Re: New interference on RME UCX

theoryzero wrote:

Since removing the USB cable reduces noise and seems to eliminate the interference noises from the PC, I'm looking at ordering a USB isolator.

Looking at older threads, I see Intona recommended here quite a bit for several years. However the cost is high if I'm not sure if that will fix my problem. I was wondering if there are any less expensive alternatives I could try that are still safe for the RME UCX to use?

Topping HS02?
new Hifime v2 isolator? https://hifimediy.com/product/hifime-hi … olator-v2/

Yes to all. Tested them myself.

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME

MC's Website

  • From: uk
  • Registered: 2023-07-23
  • Posts: 30

Re: New interference on RME UCX

alternatively use the HD400 hum destroyer by Don't Mention Their Name. this sounds like a classic data bus noise that has made it through to the audio path. sadly too common in the world of usb-capable synths. in fact if you have any passive DI to hand, try that too.

Fireface UCX, Focusrite OctoPre, Sound Devices MixPre-D, Mac Studio M2 max, macOS Sonoma
  • Registered: 2008-08-14
  • Posts: 18

Re: New interference on RME UCX

gmarinov wrote:

alternatively use the HD400 hum destroyer by Don't Mention Their Name. this sounds like a classic data bus noise that has made it through to the audio path. sadly too common in the world of usb-capable synths. in fact if you have any passive DI to hand, try that too.

Ha, I tried one by a brand named Pyle, but yes I don't have any gear by Don't Mention Their Name! The DI helped some but I'd need multiple to cover all of my inputs.

Replaced all of my cables with TS cables and have only plugged in the one or two synths I am testing at a time. The issue persists.

Still waiting on the Hifime v2 Isolator, I'm really hoping it's the answer to my problems. Unfortunately the USPS seems to have lost it. I'm working with Hifime to either replace it or have them file a claim for it through USPS.

  • Registered: 2008-08-14
  • Posts: 18

Re: New interference on RME UCX

MC wrote:
theoryzero wrote:

Topping HS02?
new Hifime v2 isolator? https://hifimediy.com/product/hifime-hi … olator-v2/

Yes to all. Tested them myself.

Ok just following up. I got the Hifime v2 USB isolator (2023 edition, if the naming changes at some point) and have been using it for several days. All of the USB noise I was getting on the inputs to my UCX is gone. Thanks again Matthias!