1 (edited by SSC. 2023-09-27 00:39:52)

Topic: AIO now AIO Pro. Same internal interference with headphones out.

Hi,

Just wondering if anyone could help with an on going issue, please?

This weekend I took the plunge and brought a brand new AIO Pro to replace my old AIO. Loving the new converters on the Pro. Real nice!

I have had my AIO for 9 years. It has been rock solid for me on windows 10 and 11. I did send the AIO back to RME as I had that talked about computer interference. from day one. RME got back to say the couldn't find a fault and it was a grounding issue.
I thought fair enough as every machine and setups different, so I saved up and brought the balanced breakout cable and a Benchmark DAC1 running via AES. These both solved the problems apart for the headphones out on the AIO.

I fitted the brand new AIO Pro this weekend and straight away noticed the strong interference with the headphones out. I tested first with nothing but the machine, AIO Pro and breakouts in (nothing pugged in the i/o's)

Also, the new outputs mute feature dosen't seem to work either for me.

I have tried all the usual problem solving (like going back 9 years when I first got my AIO!) with no luck.

What seemed to help a bit in my ASUS BIOS was disabling all C-States. This seemed to cut a fair bit of high whine out, but the headphones is still leaking in computer interference,  mouse noise, crackling when opening apps, windows, programs ect. Making it unusable for working with.

One thing, I am using the same balanced breakout cable I brought 9 years ago, but not sure that could be the issue? I've not got a spare £75 at the mo, so can't test that route.

Just to point out, this is my lastest DAW build, so a totally different machine and board from the other 9 years ago!

Specs-

BeQuiet Silent Base 600 Case
BeQuiet 600w 80plus PSU
Asus-Prime-z490-p
Intel i7 10700k (I don't overclock)
32GB DDR4 2666Mhz Ram
2 SSDs
1 M.2 Pcie NVMe
1 HDD
Windows 11 22H2 (latest updates)
Protools Artist
Reason 12

I have the card fitted in the PCIEX1_2 slot. No graphics or other cards fitted.

Just wondering if anyone could help on the headphones front and also why the new output mutes feature dosen't seem to work for me? It's more of a curiosity thing, as it's weird it's happend to me with two brand new cards and now different machines over the years.

Thanks! (Sorry for the long first post!!!)

2

Re: AIO now AIO Pro. Same internal interference with headphones out.

This reads a bit like you have massive leakage current generated by your computer, flowing over your headphones and your body to earth. So let's clear this first: does the noise on the headphone go away when your body is fully isolated from ground? Test can be as simple as sitting on an office chair with plastic wheels and lifting the feet up, away from ground.

If all the noise is just internal electronic noise, not related to ground, then either your computer has no ground/PE or your power outlet does not have, it seems.

What excatly do you mean with 'new output mute feature'? The AIO Pro uses relais on both line and headphone output for click-free on/off when turning on the computer and turning it off. A little click might still get audible, but no loud pop/thump should occur. Or are you having this effect when waking from sleep? You use the latest firmware 23 / 108?

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME

Re: AIO now AIO Pro. Same internal interference with headphones out.

Hi Matthias,

Really appricate you getting back.

I am in the UK and pretty sure my sockets are grounded here in the house. I am in a standard bedroom, no outbuilding ect and all power runs on the same circuit which gets tested from time to time (rented)

I run my setup off surge protector extension leads. I use one double socket wall outlet to run all my main gear.

I have always had my PC's built by a decent DAW builder here in the UK (Inta Audio), so pretty sure the grounding should be solid in the machine, not 100% sure though. I don't get static off the case when touched ect.

I will try the grounding myself test you say said about in a bit. I sit on a wooden Piano throne, so no office chair here, but always just have socks on, never shoes. The whole floor of the room I am in is carpeted, so I have always had the PC raised on a piece of 8" timbre, but the breakout cables do float along the floor. I can try rasing the machine on a plastic type crate, not sure if that will help?

I still get a pop when fully shutting down and starting up, especially on the headphones out.

Really love the AIO's. Such great performance and fits my needs and work flow great! Best interfereces I have owned. Love Totalmix and DIGIcheck, so I am always willing to scarfice the headphones out.

The balanced breakout cable I have is 9 years old, could the cable be part of the problem also?

Thanks again Matthias,

Craig.

Re: AIO now AIO Pro. Same internal interference with headphones out.

Some questions,
Did you ever try different headphones and if yes was the noise identical?
If you set the level of the headphones low or off in the AIO control app, not totalmix, does the noise change?

Vincent, Amsterdam
https://soundcloud.com/thesecretworld
Babyface pro fs, HDSP9652+ADI-8AE, HDSP9632

Re: AIO now AIO Pro. Same internal interference with headphones out.

vinark wrote:

Some questions,
Did you ever try different headphones and if yes was the noise identical?
If you set the level of the headphones low or off in the AIO control app, not totalmix, does the noise change?

Hi Vinark,

Thanks for the input!

I have just tried 3 different pairs of headphones and also switching between the high and low settings in the AIO DSP. Still getting the interference, the sound is the same. Sounds like that old internet dial up tone. It gets even more worse when the computer starts working, apps, programs are open.

I run and sync all my setup at 96khz. Changing the sample rate doesn't help.

I just tested the machine in 3 different extension leads. No luck, also tried what Matthias.

Cheers!

Re: AIO now AIO Pro. Same internal interference with headphones out.

MC wrote:

This reads a bit like you have massive leakage current generated by your computer, flowing over your headphones and your body to earth. So let's clear this first: does the noise on the headphone go away when your body is fully isolated from ground? Test can be as simple as sitting on an office chair with plastic wheels and lifting the feet up, away from ground.

If all the noise is just internal electronic noise, not related to ground, then either your computer has no ground/PE or your power outlet does not have, it seems.

What excatly do you mean with 'new output mute feature'? The AIO Pro uses relais on both line and headphone output for click-free on/off when turning on the computer and turning it off. A little click might still get audible, but no loud pop/thump should occur. Or are you having this effect when waking from sleep? You use the latest firmware 23 / 108?

Hi again, Matthias.

I tried the above, nothing changed in the interference on the headphones out. Could it be the breakout cable is damaged in some way? I can't afford to grab a new one yet.

The Outputs with Mute Relais feature might actually be working then. I defo hear a click but it isn't anything major.

I have emailed my computer build company to see if they have any ideas. I am not clued up on the electrics side of things, so I personally wouldn't know without major problems showing if my PSU is faulty, failing or grounded.

The surge protected extension leads I own seem to show up the 'earthed light' on my sockets.

Cheers!

Re: AIO now AIO Pro. Same internal interference with headphones out.

I am using the latest 4.46. drives and Firmware shows 23.

Cheers.

Re: AIO now AIO Pro. Same internal interference with headphones out.

I just tried another two sockets in the room with just my computer,  AIO Pro, headphones and monitor connected, no luck. Like I say, even does it with nothing conncet to the machine other than the card, balanced breakout and headphones.

I did re try all settings in the BIOS again, tired these a lot. The only thing that does seem to cut out the high pitched whine is disabling all C-States like I said, but then there's still the constant sizzle, crackling, all mouse movment, apps open ect getting picked up.

I will try taking just my computer down stairs into another room and trying a socket, not holding much hope though!

I can live without the headphones out, but for 9 years it's always played on my brain as to why it's doing it here!

Thanks.

Re: AIO now AIO Pro. Same internal interference with headphones out.

I just tried my computer downstairs in another room, no carpet floor, different wall outlet, different surge extension lead, No luck.

Again, disabling all C-States helps, but not enough.

I pretty much have tried all these ideas before with the old AIO in my other DAW build.

I may just quit searching for an answer and get back to forgetting about it. My brain doesn't really like quiting though so kind of annoying. AIO's must not just like my builds or, house!

The last thing I have got to try is buying another balanced breakout cable. Maybe it has been that for the last 9 years. Where changing the C-States helps a bit, I doubt it though. More likely something internal or maybe a hidden BIOS power type thing.

Cheers!

Re: AIO now AIO Pro. Same internal interference with headphones out.

You could try isolating the AIO bracket from the computer case. Remove the screw that fixes it to the case and use some thin plastic to isolate it from the case. I give it only a 20% chance but it is easy and without risk.  If it helps it would mean the PSU noise is reaching the headphones through the case to the sleeve of the headphones plug.
Cheers!

Vincent, Amsterdam
https://soundcloud.com/thesecretworld
Babyface pro fs, HDSP9652+ADI-8AE, HDSP9632

Re: AIO now AIO Pro. Same internal interference with headphones out.

Hi Vinark,

Thanks for the input again,

I might just give that a shot! I read about taping with electrical tape and a few other self, DIY type ideas.

The AIO, and now AIO Pro have/has been solid latancy and performance wise with ProTools and Reason, so can sacrifice the headphones out.

Cheers!

Re: AIO now AIO Pro. Same internal interference with headphones out.

Tried a few more things, no luck again this time round.

I have just linked all my gear back up. I am really liking the new converters on the Pro! Sound great to me out of my old faithful Adam P11a's and SPL Volume 2. Card is syncing well in my setup, ProTools running fine at 96khz. I'll just try to forget about the Headphones out issue. I have a few other options for headphones!

No point chancing messing up a solid  recording and mixing system!

Cheers to Matthias and Vinark for their input.

Re: AIO now AIO Pro. Same internal interference with headphones out.

Cheers to you too and your good solution, just letting it go.

Vincent, Amsterdam
https://soundcloud.com/thesecretworld
Babyface pro fs, HDSP9652+ADI-8AE, HDSP9632

14 (edited by SSC. 2023-09-28 12:06:31)

Re: AIO now AIO Pro. Same internal interference with headphones out.

Just a quick update. The DAW company who built my machine/s got back to say,

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
'the PCs are grounded and in all builds we use the same brands of PSU. I've never come across an issue like yours where the problem only arises with an RME card installed.'

'If it's coming through the headphones via the RME card, then there must be something between the two devices that is causing it, but what that is I can't say'

'Only known grounding issues in the past was usually on the users end with studio monitors through a USB interface, and not headphones, and is easily remedied with a ground loop isolator'

'I did recently install a Raydat card in a customers machine he has had no issues (using very simillar components)'
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I have used the company for years on my builds, always great and really helpful. I get that the Raydat is pure digital, no analog, so a different setup to the AIO's.

Like I say, I maze well carrying on and forget about the headphones out as it's nothing ultra major. Just an annoying thing thats stored in my mind I can't seem to solve over the years!

Cheers.

15 (edited by SSC. 2023-09-30 12:52:09)

Re: AIO now AIO Pro. Same internal interference with headphones out.

What a strange thing I have just tested. If anyone's still interested!

I just tried connecting a cheap pair of those free iPhone headphones via the headphones output of the breakout cable, to my surprise, no interference at all! I double, then triple checked, defo can't hear any intereference. 1st time ever there hasn't been intereference via the breakout headphones out.

All my studio level type 250ohm headphones, straight away intereference. I am using a mixture of DT880pros, DT770 pros and a few 68ohm isolation drumming type headphones. They all have ithe same level of internal intereference.

Anyone shed some light on this please? I am no way a technical head. I'm at a loss.

Cheers.

Re: AIO now AIO Pro. Same internal interference with headphones out.

I don't have any other lower impedance headphones at hand, other than the iPhone freebies.

Re: AIO now AIO Pro. Same internal interference with headphones out.

If you have an old hifi amp around. Try to connect it to the phones out and phones to the amp. Might just cure it to a workable solution.

Vincent, Amsterdam
https://soundcloud.com/thesecretworld
Babyface pro fs, HDSP9652+ADI-8AE, HDSP9632

Re: AIO now AIO Pro. Same internal interference with headphones out.

vinark wrote:

If you have an old hifi amp around. Try to connect it to the phones out and phones to the amp. Might just cure it to a workable solution.

Unfortunately, I don't have a hifi at hand.

Any ideas on the higher impedance headphones front and intereference?

9 years I've had problem with AIO's, then plugin in a cheap pair of headphones, noise gone.

Re: AIO now AIO Pro. Same internal interference with headphones out.

I will see if a mate could lend me a pair of lower impedance headphones to test again.

Re: AIO now AIO Pro. Same internal interference with headphones out.

I found an old pair of Nokia in ear headphones. Plugged them into the breakout, no interference again.

Trouble is, all these phone type headphones have 3 rings, which I think one is for their built in mic, TRRS?. The headphone adapters I have been trying are standard 1/4" trs type, 2 rings.

Re: AIO now AIO Pro. Same internal interference with headphones out.

You use an adapter for mini to normal phones I guess?  Did you use the same one for all phones? I have one adapter that causes all kind of trouble with most of my phone's, while my other adapters don't.

Vincent, Amsterdam
https://soundcloud.com/thesecretworld
Babyface pro fs, HDSP9652+ADI-8AE, HDSP9632

22 (edited by SSC. 2023-09-30 15:51:58)

Re: AIO now AIO Pro. Same internal interference with headphones out.

vinark wrote:

You use an adapter for mini to normal phones I guess?  Did you use the same one for all phones? I have one adapter that causes all kind of trouble with most of my phone's, while my other adapters don't.

Cheers for getting back again.

Yeah, I tried a standard trs 1/4" adapter.  The thing is all the cheap free iPhone (standard white type), Nokia phone type headphones I have are 3 ring mini, trrs type.

When I conncet a normal trs 1/4" adapter, the signal is out of phase and mono, so that might be why the interference goes. The wires are out of phase testing this way.

Shame, I fault the interference went with lower impedance headphones, looks like not to be the case.

I have a bunch of trs 1/4" adapters. I will try a few.

Re: AIO now AIO Pro. Same internal interference with headphones out.

I also for good measures tested the headphones out with a few headphone extension leads, just to be further away, no changes.

Re: AIO now AIO Pro. Same internal interference with headphones out.

No luck on different headphones adapter front.

My test with the phone type (standard white Apple wired) mini jack headphones into a 1/4" adapter defo messes phase, polarity, signal up. Tried again. Weird thing is, there is no interference that route, headphones out is clear. Just a terrible phased, distorted listening experience!