• Registered: 2022-06-26
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Topic: UFX2 with octamic XTC

Hello,


I found a thread for the UFX+ and MADI but not an answer for my issue:


I already own a UFX2 and I am happy with it, I just need more inputs. I like the octamic XTC and would like to know, if it can be connected to the UFX2 and if it can be adjusted with Totalmix FM.

I wish to have all 8 inputs of the octamic XTC in my TotalMix window of the UFX2 as additional channels.
I want to use the ADAT inputs for it.

Is this possible?

And is it possible to record all 20 channels directly on the hard disc that is connected to the UFX2?

thank you in andvance.

kind regards

UFX2, TD27KV2, Reason 12, MPK249, MS2000, DT770M, AT2020, LCT140 Air (stereo bundle), GT-3

2 Reply by waedi (edited by waedi 2023-10-02 03:31:27)

  • waedi
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Re: UFX2 with octamic XTC

Yes, it is possible to connect it with Adat Toslink cables.
No, it will not add channels to the UFX Totalmix
Yes, you will have all input channels signals in Totalmix - on the existing Adat input channels.
The Octamix does not add channels, it provides analog inputs to the existing digital channels.
Yes, all input channels can be recorded onto the USB-stick.
User manual page 96 tells you more about Durec (up to 60 channels recording ! That's crazy ! ).

M1-Sequoia, Madiface Pro, Digiface USB, Babyface silver and blue

3 Reply by ramses (edited by ramses 2023-10-02 13:58:55)

  • ramses
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Re: UFX2 with octamic XTC

But the best is yet to come … Additionally, you can integrate the XTC as a so called "Auxdevice" into TotalMix FX. This means that TotalMix FX can remotely control the most important preamp functions like gain, phantom power, PAD, etc.

For this to work, you need a MIDI connection. If you had UFX+ or III with MADI, you could use the "MIDI over MADI" feature. Then the MIDI remote control would be done via unused bits in the MADI protocol header, so you wouldn't need a MIDI cable. Especially practical if the preamp is to be placed further away, the maximum length of a shielded MIDI cable is 15 m. With MADI and using optical fiber cable (OM3/OM4 multimode) the maximum length is 2 km between each MADI device (if you connect them serial, one after the other and back to the recording interface).

In your case (UFX II) you require a "physical" MIDI cable from UFX II to XTC. Then you have to enable remote control via Auxdevice in TotalMix FX and set it for the correct channels using the correct MIDI ports:

TM FX -> Options -> Settings -> TAB "Aux. Devices":

Device Settings:
  Digital channels ADAT 1-8
  Device type: Octamic XTC
MIDI settings:
  MIDI input: UFX II Midi port 1 or 2 (*)
  MIDI output: UFX II Midi port 1 or 2 (*)

(*) Depending on which of the two midi ports/buses you connect the XTC to.

Now you can not only control the XTC's settings remotely via TM FX, but also store and recall them in snapshots.
And this is a very cool thing.

As the ADAT channels are part of the UFX II and you access the UFX via ADAT you can, of course, record all ADAT channels (and thus the XTC) using DURec.

See this thread which pen drives work best: https://forum.rme-audio.de/viewtopic.php?id=11257
Although the used protocol is USB2, you should get a USB3 stick with a good controller.
The UFX II cannot buffer audio data, so it must be guaranteed, that the controller on the USB stick can write all selected channels (up to 60 at max) instantly without any pause. I can recommend the SanDisk Extreme pro sticks, which are mentioned by MC and me in this thread:

All 60 channels (30 inputs + outputs) can be written via DURec either as back-up recording in addition to a DAW recording or alternatively in stand-alone mode, comparable to a tape deck, without using a PC.

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub14
  • Registered: 2022-06-26
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Re: UFX2 with octamic XTC

Thank your for response:

@ramses: That is intreressting. Does that mean, that I regulary canNOT adjust the gain of the 8 octamic XTC channels in TotalMix FM? I would prefer to use OSC remote, but it seems, that would need two decvices. Have I understood right?

Is there a possibility to use one Total FM (of my UFX2) and add more channels (adjustable gain) that are included from another device bye ADAT protocol?

UFX2, TD27KV2, Reason 12, MPK249, MS2000, DT770M, AT2020, LCT140 Air (stereo bundle), GT-3

5 Reply by ramses (edited by ramses 2023-10-03 10:25:23)

  • ramses
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Re: UFX2 with octamic XTC

AFAIK with ADAT there is no protocol header like with MADI, with unused bits, where something like "MIDI over ADAT" could have been implemented.

And because ADAT only transmits audio data, there is no possibility to adjust the gain or other things via ADAT.

For that, you need either a MIDI or a LAN interface.

By the way, MIDI over MADI is a vendor-specific extension from RME.

The RME 12Mic, for example, does not yet have Auxdevice support. But there are other possibilities for remote control: a) via Internet Browser/LAN. 2. via RME connector (either via MIDI, MIDI over MADI or LAN).
RME connector supports XTC, 12Mic and ADI-Tool.

There are other RME products that cannot be remotely controlled in this way at all, as it is mostly the case with 3rd party preamps. You have to control the preamp on the device if it doesn't have its own remote application. This is rather the normal case.

If you have current RME preamps, there are then just more / more comfortable solutions.

I am using here RME connector and "MIDI over MADI", as Auxdevice is not possible for the 12Mic.
This way I can remotely control 12mic and XTC using one application.
You could do the same, but you would require additional MIDI cables for that.

In your case, I would use Auxdevice for TM FX, then you have one application for all, and you can store/recall the settings in TM FX snapshots, that's the best way / functionality.

https://www.tonstudio-forum.de/attachment/3036-05-rme-connector-2-0-0b15-jpg/

Before with XTC and Auxdevice Support it looked like this:

https://www.tonstudio-forum.de/attachment/1775-ufx-und-octamic-xtc-bild-3-totalmix-fx-jpg/


Even when using RME Connector, like me now, for the 12Mic and XTC,
you still need TM FX for configuring the routing / the submixes in TotalMix FX.

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub14
  • Registered: 2022-06-26
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Re: UFX2 with octamic XTC

Hello, thank you very much for the detailed answer.


I have to admit that I imagined the upgrade (i.e. more inputs through additional hardware) to be easier when I bought the UFX2. I'll have to take a look at "Auxdevice", but I'm really happy with TotalMix FM, also because of the OSC remote support.

I decided to bake smaller rolls first, take another look at it and think about my needs again. That's a lot of money (for me).


Yesterday I stumbled across a focusrite saphire Pro 40 and have been wondering ever since if I should try that first. This should be quickly integrated into my setting via ADAT and WC can also be sent via ADAT. (saphire does not support WC)

It can be controlled in TotalMix via the digital Adat channels and yes, the gains are on the front of the device. I just have to be a bit lucky to find the right settings during a session. At the moment there would be 3 stereo synths and a guitar multi-effect device. That's manageable, right? Could there be any problems with sound or performance when recording in a DAW or standalone on the UFX2?

Have I overlooked anything and maybe there are still incompatibilities lurking?

kind reagards


(mother tounge:)
Hallo, vielen Dank für die ausführliche Antwort.


Ich muss gestehen, dass ich mir das Upgrade (also mehr Inputs durch zusätzliche hardware) beim Kauf des UFX2 einfacher vorgestellt habe. "Auxdevice" muss ich mir mal anschauen, allerdings bin ich gerade mit TotalMix FM ganz happy, auch wegen der OSC remote Unterstützung.

Ich habe beschlossen, erstmal kleinere Brötchen zu backen, mir das nochmal in Ruhe anzuschauen und auch meine Bedarf nochmal zu überdenken. Ist ja doch schon eine Menge Geld (für mich).


Gestern bin ich über ein focusrite Pro 40 gestolpert und frage mich seitdem, ob ich das  erstmal versuchen sollte. Über Adat dürfte sich das ja schnell in mein setting integrieren lassen und über ADAT lässt sich ja auch WC senden.

In TotalMix über die digitalen Adat Kanäle fernsteuerbar und ja, die Gains halt an der Vorderseite des Gerätes. Muss man halt ein bisschen Glück haben, die richtige Einstellung bei einer Session zu haben. Momentan würden dort stereo 3 Stereo Synths und ein GitarrenMultiEffektGerätdran sein. Das ist händelbar, oder? Könnte es dabei irgendweche Probleme geben hinscihtlich Klang oder Performance beim Mitschnitt in einer DAW oder standalone auf dem UFX2?

Habe ich etwas übersehen und lauern da evtl. noch Inkobatibiläten?

Liebe Grüße

UFX2, TD27KV2, Reason 12, MPK249, MS2000, DT770M, AT2020, LCT140 Air (stereo bundle), GT-3
  • ramses
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Re: UFX2 with octamic XTC

Wieso einfacher vorgestellt?
Schreckt Dich der Preis zurück oder erscheint Dir die Einrichtung mit Auxdevice zu schwierig?
Das sind wirklich nur ein paar Klicks und der Bedienungskomfort durch die Integration in TotalMix FX ist echt klasse.
Das würde ich mir echt noch mal überlegen.

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub14
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Re: UFX2 with octamic XTC

@ramses:
Both. I have accepted the high price to avoid driver issues and to get the most out of latency. That was the conscious path to RME.

However, I expected that MADI would only be necessary if I wanted to record entire ensembles. Since I wasn't planning on doing it that way, I thought a UFX2 and an (borrowed or purchased) expansion (RMEs octamic or 12Mic), for example, would be easy to integrate. I didn't expect that I would have to do without the usual TotalMix workflow. In view of several monitor mixes and the control of these 3 OSC devices, this is not insignificant for me.

When I weigh this up now, I'm seriously considering testing a cheaper AD converter. The saphire 40 pro is a candidate that I will at least test out. I am aware that my honesty in the RME forum may be inappropriate at this point. But putting together an entire studio environment sometimes requires compromises, which has a lot to do with the financial resources... hmm

kind regards


(mother tounge)
@ramses:
Beides. Den hohen Preise habe ich in kauf genommen, um keinen Ärger mit Treibern zu haben und um das maximum an Latenz rauszuholen. Das war der bewusste Weg zu RME.

Allerdings habe ich erwartet, dass MADI nur sinnvoll ist, wenn ich ganze Ensambles mitschneiden möchte. Da ich das auf diesem Wege nicht vorhatte, dachte ich, ein UFX2 und eine (geborgte oder erworbene) Erweiterung (RMEs octamic oder 12Mic) beispielsweise, würden einfach zu integrieren sein. Ich habe nicht damit gerechnet, dass ich auf den gewohnten workflow von TotalMix verzichten muss. In Hinblick auf meherere Monitormixe und die Steuerung dieser über 3 OSC Geräte ist das für mich nicht unerheblich.

Wenn ich das jetzt abwäge, überlege ich ernstaft, einen preiswerteren Wandler zu testen. Die Vorzüge von Adat bleiben ja noch. Das saphire 40 pro ist da gerade ein Kanditat, den ich zumindestens wegen der Verfügbarkeit uznd des geringen Preises mal testen werde. Dass meine Ehrlichkeit im RME Forum an dieser Stelle möglicherweise unangebracht ist, ist mir bewusst. Aber das Zusammenstellen eines ganzen Systems erfordert manchmal Kompromisse, was nicht wenig mit den zu Verfügen stehenden finanziellen Möglichkeiten zu tun hat...

LG

UFX2, TD27KV2, Reason 12, MPK249, MS2000, DT770M, AT2020, LCT140 Air (stereo bundle), GT-3
  • ramses
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Re: UFX2 with octamic XTC

Maybe there is a misunderstanding.

All you need is a MIDI cable between UFX II and Octamic XTC to make Auxdevice work.

MADI is not a strong requirement, it would only make the MIDI cable obsolete due to MIDI over MADI.

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub14
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Re: UFX2 with octamic XTC

I understand that, but Auxdevice seems to be a different aplication and I doubt that it provides the same advantages like OSC. I need to check out the app, but I prefer to use TotalMix further.

UFX2, TD27KV2, Reason 12, MPK249, MS2000, DT770M, AT2020, LCT140 Air (stereo bundle), GT-3

11 Reply by GKrazzhoopper (edited by GKrazzhoopper 2023-10-04 20:37:41)

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Re: UFX2 with octamic XTC

... And does Auxdevice provides monitor effects like TotalFM does? There might be a reason for the existence of TotalMix FM and
after all, I am still suprised that channel remote is such complicated in this RME envoirement. It would be easier with MADI, but it is too late for me to change the UFX2 to an UFX+. I didn´t give this detail enough attention...

UFX2, TD27KV2, Reason 12, MPK249, MS2000, DT770M, AT2020, LCT140 Air (stereo bundle), GT-3

12 Reply by ramses (edited by ramses 2023-10-04 21:06:48)

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Re: UFX2 with octamic XTC

GKrazzhoopper wrote:

I understand that, but Auxdevice seems to be a different aplication and I doubt that it provides the same advantages like OSC. I need to check out the app, but I prefer to use TotalMix further.

You will be using TotalMix FX like before, the difference with Auxdevice is now, that the inputs in TM FX do not only have the faders for changing the volume for submixes ..
You can control now the preamp (gain, inst, pad ...) and store and restore these settings in TotalMix FX snapshots.

If you like / prefer TotalMix anyway, then Auxdevice support should be your preferred solution.
Everything under TM FX control and it is so easy and straightforward to store / recall the preamps settings in snapshots.

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub14
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Re: UFX2 with octamic XTC

Maybe I misunderstood the operating principle of Auxdevice. I have to check it out.

In your comment, ramses, it sounds like, that AuxDevice is just the interface to communicate from one to another interface.

So the only thing is needed is the midi connection between octamic and UFX2? Will they automaticly find each other?

Where can I read infos to this type of connection? Is there a manual of AuxDevice? I havn´t find anything like that in google...

UFX2, TD27KV2, Reason 12, MPK249, MS2000, DT770M, AT2020, LCT140 Air (stereo bundle), GT-3

14 Reply by oli77sch (edited by oli77sch 2023-10-04 22:42:10)

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Re: UFX2 with octamic XTC

The Octamic XTC is no longer available! Just for the case you want to try to find an used one: there is the manual ready for download on the RME site. Aux device is described on page 26.
https://www.rme-audio.de/de_octamic-xtc.html

UCX - FF 400 - Babyface pro - Digiface USB - ADI-2 (original)
Mac mini M1 - Macbook pro - iPad Air2

15 Reply by ramses (edited by ramses 2023-10-05 10:50:36)

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Re: UFX2 with octamic XTC

In posting #5, I showed you already a screenshot of TM FX with Auxdevice.

In the expanded TM FX input channel, you see what parameters can be remotely controlled:
- stereo/mono
- 48V
- Inst / PAD (4ch Inst, 4ch PAD)
- Gain
- Autoset
- Phase

https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/wzdzd1v63oafuwn91h1t8/2023-10-05-07_29_41-UFX-und-Octamic-XTC-Remote-Control-Auxdevice.jpg?rlkey=0wbuvpodqjv3ilk0sugomn35v&dl=1

Cabling is easy, for single speed you only need two TOSLINK cables:

UFX II <-------- ADAT1----------Octamic XTC
           ----------ADAT1---------> to be able to use the analog outputs (2x phones)
           <---------MIDI---------->

You need to get a device from used market as Oli told.

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub14
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Re: UFX2 with octamic XTC

ramses wrote:

You need to get a device from used market as Oli told.

Tatsächlich habe ich erst gestern entdeckt, dass auf der RME-Seite der Hinweis angepasst wurde von „momentan nicht lieferbar“ auf „nicht mehr lieferbar“.
Sehr schade.

UCX - FF 400 - Babyface pro - Digiface USB - ADI-2 (original)
Mac mini M1 - Macbook pro - iPad Air2
  • ramses
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Re: UFX2 with octamic XTC

And just in case he wants a new device, then 12Mic.
More channels, advantage: higher port density in 1 RU.

UFX II <-------- ADAT1----------12Mic
           ----------ADAT1--------->
          <-------- ADAT2----------
           ----------ADAT2--------->
           <---------MIDI---------->

or MADI based (but not in scope, too expensive)

UFX III ------ MADI ---- 12Mic

As Auxdevice is not available for the 12Mic, you need RME connector, see other screenshot in posting #5.

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub14