1 (edited by Traum 2023-10-18 13:38:47)

Topic: Should I go with ADAT / MADI (or AES or DANTE) in my Studio?

I'm just unsure of which way to go in terms of connectivity. I want something rock solid and reliable with very low latency and easy setup and no technical issues for a home studio. I also want something a standard that's going to remain current and relevant for the next few decades. I'm not sure whether I should be looking at the Digiface USB (ADAT), Madiface USB, Digiface AVB USB or Digiface Dante. I don't envision that I would need more than 32 channels or more than 24 bit 48khz sample rate.

It seems like there are way more options for converters and preamps in the ADAT format and they are also much cheaper. However, there's MADI, AES and DANTE to consider which seem much more capable 'pro' formats. I could get a RME digiface and a ferrofish pulse 16 converter and then an ada8200 for preamps (or no ferrofish and 2 or 3 ada8200s or asp800/880).

I could get a RME madiface USB (£350 more expensive) and a ferrofish pulse 16MX (£200 more expensive) and I'm not sure about madi preamps. What advantages am I getting here?

Then there's things like presonus studiolive III 24R which can act as an audio interface or work in conjunction with an RME digiface AVB. Then there's Midas DN4816-O which gives 16 inputs over ultranet - I'm not sure if this is compatible with RME AES or not. Also Midas DL16 AES50 and again i'm not sure if this works with RME digiface AES or not. What I really want is solid reliability that just works and with low latency.

ADAT, MADI, AVB - i'm not sure what is best for my uses. I read from time to time on the internet of various people who hate ADAT and have issues with it and that's not something I ever want to encounter.

Re: Should I go with ADAT / MADI (or AES or DANTE) in my Studio?

Maybe you first have a look at this video for better understanding: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LWGVoxi … p=gAQBiAQB

Regards,
Audio AG Support

Re: Should I go with ADAT / MADI (or AES or DANTE) in my Studio?

I've looked into it but watched the video anyway. It seems like the main advantages of MADI and Dante are if you want long distance cabling and also higher channel counts and higher sample rates. For my purposes in a home studio I don't think these factors would make a difference to me.

Are there any other potential problems or headaches I might run into with ADAT such as latency, clocking / synchronisation, MIDI etc that MADI or DANTE might solve?

Is there a future or longevity for ADAT as a format or is it likely it will be phased out and replaced leaving me with an outdated system 10+ years down the road? It seems like the vast majority of studio gear is still ADAT compatible and only the high end things also have Dante or MADI. Perhaps this is changing or will change shortly.

If I was to buy a Ferrorish 16 ADAT converter vs the MADI version vs the DANTE version and then add an a third party 8 mic preamp in ADAT / MADI or DANTE format - is one format going to run more smoothly, give less latency, or better syncronisation / timing?

4 (edited by waedi 2023-10-18 15:11:58)

Re: Should I go with ADAT / MADI (or AES or DANTE) in my Studio?

A UFX lll probably has all you need.

M1-Sequoia, Madiface Pro, Digiface USB, Babyface silver and blue

5 (edited by Traum 2023-10-18 15:35:30)

Re: Should I go with ADAT / MADI (or AES or DANTE) in my Studio?

waedi wrote:

A UFX lll probably has all you need.

It does until you want to start running drum machines with individual outputs into your DAW. Then you might need 10 inputs per drum machine. Plus it's an extremely pricey solution. Initially I was thinking of the UC II or 802 FS but then thought It's a pricey solution for not many analog inputs.

6 (edited by ramses 2023-10-18 16:01:47)

Re: Should I go with ADAT / MADI (or AES or DANTE) in my Studio?

As nice as a Digiface USB is, it doesn't have the mix of ports that gives you a solid base.
Rather than that, I would suggest getting a RayDAT (full digital card), which has besides 4x ADAT I/O:
- 2x MIDI I/O (one bus for your midi devices, the other for e.g. certain RME preamps to become remote controlled)
- 1x AES, to i.e. connect a reference converter like the ADI-2 Pro FS R BE in the future for enhancing your monitoring
- 1x SPDIF I/O
- optional word clock module as most of the preamps are lacking digital inputs and/or WC to make them to a clock slave
   the Behringer has ADAT inputs and outputs, there it is no problem, they can get clock over ADAT IN from e.g. Digiface USB
   But if you think about decades, then the Digiface USB wouldn't offer to me enough flexibility
The Behringer AD8200 used as preamp and/or ADDA converter would be 2nd choice for me
One thing is that they are really limited to single speed up to 48 kHz .. You mentioned decades, I would keep it as an option to perhaps record at double speed.
The other thing is, that I heard reports on the internet that the outputs of ADA8200 are a little noisy. But I am not sure whether this is about the older or the current model.
If I were you, I would get better Preamps, AD/DA converter if you can afford.

MADI gives you the advantage of more flexibility in cabling by supporting longer cables. If you should have more rooms in the future, you can more easily distribute devices across rooms. With MADI (via optical fiber, OM3 or OM4 multimode cable) the cables can be up to 2 km long between each of the devices! Patch cables are available between 0.5m and around 50m.

To have a device with MADI ports usually also means to have more channels in total.
This is a good thing if you need to make some trickeries with loopback.
With 2x ADAT and one MADI port, you have 16+64 = plenty of channels so that there are always some left for Loopback, without having to sacrifice other channels, that you might need for other things.

In that regard, waedi is right, suggesting the UFX III. This gives you already a good base of all the typically needed port types in a studio and in a high quality and with very fast and high-quality converters. The new UFX III has even the proven AKM converters of the ADI-2 Pro FS. So you have with it already some analog high-quality ports and preamps.
And then you have enough channels in total, giving you the flexibility for decades to grow on demand.

If you ask me whether I like AVB or Dante more than MADI .. no. MADI is a dedicated connection for Audio and this is fine.
With AVB (L2 based) and Dante (L3) you usually require switches / Routers.
Maybe you have even converged traffic, audio and the usual traffic in the house.

Then you typically require for AVB special AVB capable switches supporting all the required standards for clock distribution, which is critical. This adds a layer of complexity, that you do not want/need, and extra costs. Another disadvantage of AVB seems to be, that you cannot control sample rate across all AVB devices, you need to reconfigure each of the devices single a forum user told here in the forum.

With Dante, you have to pay for the Dante chip, require in most cases besides a router, possibly also a L3 device (Router) and you have to deal with Quality of Service. This also requires special skills, you mix different forms of traffic over your network.

Well, MADI is much easier and audio traffic is fully decoupled from the rest of the world and besides the cabling you do not have additional HW costs. Good, devices are a little pricier, but not that much and not more as if you would go AVB or Dante.

MADI has then another advantage, you can remotely control some RME preamps using MIDI over MADI with the RME connector application. And you do not need MIDI cabling for that, RME uses unused bits in the MADI protocol header for the MIDI communication, then you do not have any hassles with any MIDI cable. All can run over MADI CABLING and you have not the typical MIDI cable length restrictions.

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub13

Re: Should I go with ADAT / MADI (or AES or DANTE) in my Studio?

Regarding getting an RME interface like the UFX or UCX and then expanding would I not be better off running all of the same preamps rather than running some RME and some third party via ADAT expansion (as there may be a difference in latency / synchronisation?)

I'm using a macbook pro so I don't be going down the digital card route.

I did see the RME Dante can be used as a Dante switch and probably the AVB as an AVB switch, but yes I have wifi in my home (I don't know if that's an issue). I don't really want to get into complex networking and things like that. Simple, reliable and effective is what i'm going for. I really don't want to pay £1100 extra for the dante version of the ferrofish so I guess I will rule that out. It also sounds complex and difficult to manage which is the last thing I want. If ABV is similarly complex I think i'll happily give that a miss too.

The MADI is a little more expensive than the ADAT but not ridiculously so. The trouble is finding low to mid priced MADI preamps / converters like the behringer/midas/lower priced focusrite/audient. I suppose you could add ADAT preamps onto the Ferrorish 16 in a chain but then you are mixing MADI and ADAT which might be more complicated or cause issues (not sure). It's kind of a shame the babyface and UCX II only have 8 channels of ADAT available or they could be a great option to get the preamps I need and then I can just add a bunch of analog ins with the ferrofish. I don't really want to spend £2400 on a UFX III or even £1900 on a UFX II.

I'm also a bit confused what the use of the AES / EBU connector is. Doesn't it just give you 2 mono analog ins?

Re: Should I go with ADAT / MADI (or AES or DANTE) in my Studio?

AES has two channels and allows sample rates from single to quad speed.
But with an AES interface offering a couple of AES ports you can't connect that many stuff.

For MADI you have several options.
You mention the Ferrofish, for only a few bucks more you get the MADI version.
If you need preamps I would recommend the 12Mic from RME, this you can also nicely remote control via MIDI over MADI (all over the MADI wire) using RME connector.
An alternative would be to get a used Octamic XTC, then you can store and recall the settings using TM FX, because this device can be integrated as so called Auxdevice. Only available for the XTC though. Planned for 12Mic, but I fear this might take longer. So either XTC used or 12Mic via RME connector.

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub13

9 (edited by sbcrikey 2023-10-19 14:13:41)

Re: Should I go with ADAT / MADI (or AES or DANTE) in my Studio?

Traum wrote:

I'm also a bit confused what the use of the AES / EBU connector is. Doesn't it just give you 2 mono analog ins?

Maybe you already know this (and Ramses partially answered mentioning the different sample rate speeds) but the AES/EBU connector allows for a digital stereo I/O, think external A/D, and can be either AES or S/PDIF using the breakout cable. at least, that's the way it is on my UCXII smile