1 Topic by Sleepless (edited by Sleepless 2023-10-12 07:47:53)

  • Registered: 2023-10-12
  • Posts: 11

Topic: Upgrading from Hifiman EF400?

Hi,

As much as I love my EF400, I am being seriously tempted by the RME ADI-2 DAC FS. I may just trust the reviews and go ahead and buy what is apparently one of the very best DACs available but I wondered if anyone has gone down this upgrade path and could tell me what kind of improvements to expect? It seems like a logical upgrade from the EF400, being a high quality and fairly powerful DAC/Amp, so hopefully someone can help. I love the transparency of the EF400 (I don't seem to be aware of it as much as with other systems) and I'm won over by the R2R DAC's smoothness, does the ADI-2 have similar qualities?

In addition, my cans are Hifiman Edition XS and Senny IE600 IEMs. Are they a good match?

Thanks,
Simon.

2 Reply by KaiS (edited by KaiS 2023-10-12 09:00:40)

  • KaiS
  • DAW Mastermind
  • Offline
  • From: Germany
  • Registered: 2020-02-05
  • Posts: 3,129

Re: Upgrading from Hifiman EF400?

ADI-2’s DSP functionality, specially the EQ, makes a night-and-day difference.
ADI-2’s sound signature is highly transparent, so if this is your goal it would be ideal.

With ADI-2 Pro and ADI-2/4 Pro SE it’s even possible to use the DSP in combination with your Hifiman EF400.



Main DSP functions:

• 5 Bands fully parametric EQ.

• Separately accessible fully parametric Bass / Treble EQ with direct hardware controls on ADI-2’s front.

• Stereo-Width adjust.

• Crossfeed, optimized for headphones.

• Selectable DA-Filters.


The Edition XS benefits from a some EQ, look here for a suggestion:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/djhxtkvqne01k … S.pdf?dl=0
Remark: I’d leave out the corrections above 2960 Hz, they don’t make sense.

Why it’s better to ignore the high Q, low gain filters above ca. 3 kHz, see this video, specially from positions 7’30”, 9’25” and 12’35”:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Nq9ZGAYTwU&t=541s

KaiS's Website

  • Registered: 2023-10-12
  • Posts: 11

Re: Upgrading from Hifiman EF400?

Thanks for your comments. The ADI-2 Pro would be perfect for my needs but it is out of reach financially. There's so much for me to love with the ADI-2 FS and I have a chance of getting a very good deal on one so it's probably inevitable, lol, just interested in what owners think and what a step up it would be.

4 Reply by KaiS (edited by KaiS 2023-10-12 10:28:44)

  • KaiS
  • DAW Mastermind
  • Offline
  • From: Germany
  • Registered: 2020-02-05
  • Posts: 3,129

Re: Upgrading from Hifiman EF400?

Sleepless wrote:

... There's so much for me to love with the ADI-2 FS and I have a chance of getting a very good deal on one…

The model you’re heading for is:

ADI-2 DAC FS, the one with the LCD display:
https://www.rme-usa.com/files/uploads/RME-Products/Converter/ADI-2-DAC-r.png

An ADI-2 FS does exist too, it doesn’t have a display and represents a different concept:
https://www.rme-usa.com/files/uploads/RME-Products/Converter/ADI-2-FS.png

KaiS's Website

  • Registered: 2023-10-12
  • Posts: 11

Re: Upgrading from Hifiman EF400?

Oops, sorry, yes it's the DAC FS that I'm interested in, I was just trying to use shorthand rather than typing out the whole thing. smile

  • Steff
  • ADAT user
  • Offline
  • Registered: 2023-06-05
  • Posts: 22

Re: Upgrading from Hifiman EF400?

I can say RME ADI-2 DAC FS and Hifiman Edition XS are a good match. I use them together for a longer while now and I am fully satisfied. Sound is crisp, super clear and clean. The possibility to play with the EQ is a nice option. There is a preset for the Edition XS with graph and adjustments explanation on the web by oratory1990 to download.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/djhxtkvqne01k … S.pdf?dl=0

I did it that way and It`s very good to my ears.

7 Reply by Sleepless (edited by Sleepless 2023-10-13 04:37:33)

  • Registered: 2023-10-12
  • Posts: 11

Re: Upgrading from Hifiman EF400?

Steff wrote:

I can say RME ADI-2 DAC FS and Hifiman Edition XS are a good match. I use them together for a longer while now and I am fully satisfied. Sound is crisp, super clear and clean. The possibility to play with the EQ is a nice option. There is a preset for the Edition XS with graph and adjustments explanation on the web by oratory1990 to download.

Interesting, how do you use them together? I plan to sell the EF400 once I've bought the ADI-2 DAC FS as I don't need both and my assumption is that the DAC section is the strong point of both devices. The EQ is one of the big selling points of the ADI-2 DAC FS, I'm old with knackered hearing and need to EQ but it's still worth having good equipment as I enjoy the detail, timbre, etc. even if I'm not hearing everything that it can offer.

I know it's not easy to explain but how does the ADI-2 DAC FS improve on the EF400 and is it a big difference?

Thank you for the link, I was going to look for that. Which of the 10 bands did you use with the ADI-2 DAC FS?

  • Steff
  • ADAT user
  • Offline
  • Registered: 2023-06-05
  • Posts: 22

Re: Upgrading from Hifiman EF400?

I am not familiar with the EF 400 so I can not compare to the RME ADI-2 DAC FS.
I use the RME ADI-2 DAC FS in the following chain:
Streamer Eversolo DMP A6 - SPDIF - RME ADI-2 DAC FS - RCA out - Active Speakers DALI Zensor 5 AX with Aktive SUB E 12 F.
PC - USB - RME ADI-2 DAC FS - RME Remote APP.
Streaming Tidal and/or Qobuz and library from NAS. Sometimes direct with Eversolo. Sometimes with PC - Audirvana - DLNA - Eversolo.
Sometimes I think Audirvana PC - DLNA sounds better than Eversolo direct. But may be an illusion... -:)
In any case Eversolo sounds better than PC - Audirvana - USB - RME ADI-2 DAC FS (my first setup before bought Eversolo)
Can`t say why, but it is.

9 Reply by KaiS (edited by KaiS 2023-10-30 07:57:08)

  • KaiS
  • DAW Mastermind
  • Offline
  • From: Germany
  • Registered: 2020-02-05
  • Posts: 3,129

Re: Upgrading from Hifiman EF400?

Sleepless wrote:

I know it's not easy to explain but how does the ADI-2 DAC FS improve on the EF400 and is it a big difference?

I don‘t have the EF400, so can‘t compare.

But- I have loads of DACs and amps, several much more expensive than ADI-2.

ADI-2 is the go-to device for everyday use.


Audible differences between various DACs and amps are minor (if compared at exact same loudness) relative to the step-up that’s possible with ADI-2:

Practically it’s the completeness with the EQ, integrated in an “everything you need”-package which elevates it high above all other solutions.


Regarding EQ presets from common sources like Oratory1990, Auto-EQ project or Crinnacle:

Just leave away all bands higher than 2-3 kHz, and replace them by a simple, broad shelf treble control that you can adjust to taste.

Those bands are based on measurements that are by no means valid for your personal ears – unless you get plastic surgery to adjust your pinnae and ear canals to the artificial ear used for measurement smile


For the Hifiman Edition XS / Oratory1990 preset:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/djhxtkvqne01k … S.pdf?dl=0
Skip bands 7, 8, and 10.
Adjust Band 9 to taste, it largely covers what those bands do anyway.

KaiS's Website

  • Steff
  • ADAT user
  • Offline
  • Registered: 2023-06-05
  • Posts: 22

Re: Upgrading from Hifiman EF400?

You may also like and read this for EQ settings with the RME:

https://forum.rme-audio.de/viewtopic.php?id=35473

  • Registered: 2023-10-12
  • Posts: 11

Re: Upgrading from Hifiman EF400?

@Steff Sorry, I was half asleep when I replied and thought you'd said you have both ADI-2 and EF400, hence my surprise at you using them together! smile Thanks for the additional info.

@KaiS Useful to know, thanks.

I've been tempted by the ADI-2 DAC FS for a while and just came across a very good deal on one so it is now purchased and should arrive early next week, I'm excited! The EF400 is a great piece of kit but a bit limited. I'm an engineer and love playing with things so the ADI-2 is going be ideal for me.

12 Reply by Sleepless (edited by Sleepless 2023-10-30 09:31:27)

  • Registered: 2023-10-12
  • Posts: 11

Re: Upgrading from Hifiman EF400?

Just to round off the thread, I found an almost-new and in perfect condition model C ADI-2 DAC FS for less than 2/3 of the new price so I jumped at it, especially since it was already burned-in so I could enjoy it to the full immediately.

Wow, impressed doesn't cover it, this thing sounds incredible. As the music wafted through my brain the feeling I got was that everything I had heard until then had been second rate copies and RME had handed me the keys to the master tapes cupboard. Everything is so clean and clear, so much detail. Live recordings are just like being there. I need EQ and had been a little concerned about setting it up using the buttons but I installed the Remote program and had it dialed in within a couple of hours, no problem at all. What a piece of software, it does the job perfectly, as does the hardware.

This is my end game, it is better than I had dared to imagine or hope that something I could afford would sound. It works so well with both my Hifiman Edition XS cans and Sennheiser IE600 IEMs to make a perfect desktop system and the ability to record from SPDIF input to USB output is going to make it easy to rip some of my less common LPs to FLAC.

I am in love! I could go on for much longer but most of you already know what an amazing device this is. Thanks for the suggestions and encouragement, I am delighted.

  • Registered: 2023-06-30
  • Posts: 64

Re: Upgrading from Hifiman EF400?

Sleepless wrote:

it was already burned-in

:facepalm.jpg:

  • Registered: 2023-10-12
  • Posts: 11

Re: Upgrading from Hifiman EF400?

unpluggged wrote:
Sleepless wrote:

it was already burned-in

:facepalm.jpg:

You can believe it or not but in my experience, both as a user and an engineer, it is definitely a 'thing', especially with speakers/IEMs/etc. with moving parts that rub against each-other at first and need to bed in.

  • Steff
  • ADAT user
  • Offline
  • Registered: 2023-06-05
  • Posts: 22

Re: Upgrading from Hifiman EF400?

Sleepless wrote:
unpluggged wrote:
Sleepless wrote:

it was already burned-in

:facepalm.jpg:

You can believe it or not but in my experience, both as a user and an engineer, it is definitely a 'thing', especially with speakers/IEMs/etc. with moving parts that rub against each-other at first and need to bed in.

I just took a look into my running ADI-2 DAC FS...

I found neither moving parts, nor something that rubbed against each other...  -:)

And I can say that my DAC sounds today as it sounded yesterday and also about one year ago at the first day...

Something wrong with it?    Joke!

16 Reply by KaiS (edited by KaiS 2023-11-04 07:50:11)

  • KaiS
  • DAW Mastermind
  • Offline
  • From: Germany
  • Registered: 2020-02-05
  • Posts: 3,129

Re: Upgrading from Hifiman EF400?

Sleepless wrote:

You can believe it or not but in my experience, both as a user and an engineer, it is definitely a 'thing', especially with speakers/IEMs/etc. with moving parts that rub against each-other at first and need to bed in.

No moving parts inside ADI-2 (of course).

Either no electrolytic capacitors in the DA-path - would be the only electronic part that could, after long storage, do some “reformatting” over a period of a few hours.


I did a meticulously performed, level matched, blind A/B comparison of my 1st generation ADI-2 Pro and my new ADI-2/4 Pro SE just when I got it, factory new.
The A/B took about 3/4 of a day, with 100 A/Bs, each listening through a whole song.

https://forum.rme-audio.de/viewtopic.ph … 60#p195160

The result is a clear evidence against burn-in (and some other sound quality myths):

There is no detectable sound difference between the two, very old and brand new.
The ADI-2 is and has been from the start, on just such a high quality standard that it alway surpassed what’s audible.

KaiS's Website