• Registered: 2016-10-26
  • Posts: 17

Topic: Want More I/O - Currently have BF Pro + ADAT expansion

Background: I am a hobbyist, not a pro. Do not have a large budget ($700-$800ish). I'm on Windows 11. Struggled with a different interface for years and after switching to RME, I don't ever want to use anything else.

I have a Babyface Pro (non-FS) connected to a Behringer ADA8200 over ADAT for outboard gear that has served me well for several years. Recently, I've been experimenting with using stereo guitar pedals as outboard and it has opened up a whole world of fun. But a few stereo pedals eat up I/O real quick.

I'm looking at the second-hand market for a Digiface USB that would connect to the BF Pro and the ADA8200. So I would remove the BF Pro drivers from my PC and install the DF drivers. The DF would be the main interface connected to the PC over USB. The DF would connect to the BF Pro over ADAT I/O, as would the ADA8200. I could then get another ADA8200 (or 2, or even something else someday). Even further down the road, I could replace the BF Pro with something with more I/O.

Will this work? Are there any pitfalls I should be aware of? Does the MIDI still work with the BF Pro if I leave it plugged into the PC via USB or is that reliant upon the BF Pro ASIO drivers? Will the buttons still work on my BF Pro?

Initially, I was thinking it might be time to get a new interface, but the cost of used DF + ADA8200 looks much more affordable than getting one of RME's big boys. Any insight would be greatly appreciated.

  • waedi
  • DAW Mastermind
  • Offline
  • From: Swiss Zürich
  • Registered: 2020-12-08
  • Posts: 4,544

Re: Want More I/O - Currently have BF Pro + ADAT expansion

The Digiface uses the new Madiface driver, the Babyface Pro is on Fireface driver therefore they won't work on the same computer at the same time.
The Digiface USB is the next affordable solution, you can connect up to 4 ADAs, for Midi you have to use a separate Midi interface.
The Babyface becomes redundant, good for selling

M1-Sequoia, Madiface Pro, Digiface USB, Babyface silver and blue
  • Registered: 2016-10-26
  • Posts: 17

Re: Want More I/O - Currently have BF Pro + ADAT expansion

waedi wrote:

The Digiface uses the new Madiface driver, the Babyface Pro is on Fireface driver therefore they won't work on the same computer at the same time.
The Digiface USB is the next affordable solution, you can connect up to 4 ADAs, for Midi you have to use a separate Midi interface.
The Babyface becomes redundant, good for selling

Thanks for the reply. I appreciate you taking the time to help.

Sounds like I was trying to have it both ways with the BF Pro. However, if I uninstall the BF Pro driver and put it in standalone mode, wouldn't I have it available as one of the Digiface USB's 4 ADA's? That way I could use the BF Pro's 4 inputs and 4 outputs. In this setup, it would not be connected to the same computer via USB, but the I/O would show up in Totalmix. Do I have that right?

Similarly, I've been doing a bit more looking. If the above setup would work, I'm thinking a Raydat solution work similarly, but also give me the MIDI I'd be missing out on.

Thanks again.

  • waedi
  • DAW Mastermind
  • Offline
  • From: Swiss Zürich
  • Registered: 2020-12-08
  • Posts: 4,544

Re: Want More I/O - Currently have BF Pro + ADAT expansion

yes

M1-Sequoia, Madiface Pro, Digiface USB, Babyface silver and blue

5 Reply by vinark (edited by vinark 2023-11-29 17:28:41)

  • vinark
  • DAW Mastermind
  • Offline
  • Registered: 2009-06-05
  • Posts: 2,779

Re: Want More I/O - Currently have BF Pro + ADAT expansion

Babyface must be connected to usb for setting up the routing to and from adat but that is no problem, Both drivers can be installed and both show up in totalmix. You will use the digiface driver in your programs.
So what you want is doable. Digiface main device. Connect babyface and ADA8200 to digiface.
From totalmix you can route the ins and outs of the baby to the digi.
The baby supplies you with 4 ins and outs, the behringer with 8, The digi has 1 headphones out.
For more in outs you then buy another adat ADDA as you planned.

Vincent, Amsterdam
https://soundcloud.com/thesecretworld
BFpro fs, 2X HDSP9652 ADI-8AE, 2X HDSP9632
  • vinark
  • DAW Mastermind
  • Offline
  • Registered: 2009-06-05
  • Posts: 2,779

Re: Want More I/O - Currently have BF Pro + ADAT expansion

Oh and like above you can use the babyface midi. There really is no problem having both drivers installed and midi is separate from the audio driver so baby midi will work even if you use digiface driver.

Vincent, Amsterdam
https://soundcloud.com/thesecretworld
BFpro fs, 2X HDSP9652 ADI-8AE, 2X HDSP9632
  • Registered: 2016-10-26
  • Posts: 17

Re: Want More I/O - Currently have BF Pro + ADAT expansion

Thank you both, kindly!

Cheers

  • waedi
  • DAW Mastermind
  • Offline
  • From: Swiss Zürich
  • Registered: 2020-12-08
  • Posts: 4,544

Re: Want More I/O - Currently have BF Pro + ADAT expansion

One thing you have to be aware : Babyface in standalone-mode ADAT is only 2-channel, not 8 !

M1-Sequoia, Madiface Pro, Digiface USB, Babyface silver and blue
  • vinark
  • DAW Mastermind
  • Offline
  • Registered: 2009-06-05
  • Posts: 2,779

Re: Want More I/O - Currently have BF Pro + ADAT expansion

Thats why I said, must be usb connected, to use it fully

Vincent, Amsterdam
https://soundcloud.com/thesecretworld
BFpro fs, 2X HDSP9652 ADI-8AE, 2X HDSP9632
  • Registered: 2016-10-26
  • Posts: 17

Re: Want More I/O - Currently have BF Pro + ADAT expansion

vinark wrote:

Thats why I said, must be usb connected, to use it fully

Thank you. So, forget standalone mode. Leave the Babyface connected as it is now. Don't remove the driver.

Once the Digiface is connected and the relevant driver is installed, I can connect the Babyface and the ADA8200 to the Digiface and the Totalmix will show all available I/O. I can then use Totalmix to assign my monitors (Main), headphones, Speaker B, and any other routing I need.

When I open up my DAW (Cubase), I choose the Digiface driver and all of the I/O I have connected to the Digiface (Babyface + ADA8200) should be available in the DAW.

And the MIDI I/O connected to the Babyface will still be configurable via Totalmix.

Is my understanding correct?

  • Registered: 2016-06-14
  • Posts: 1,142

Re: Want More I/O - Currently have BF Pro + ADAT expansion

BuckleBean wrote:

And the MIDI I/O connected to the Babyface will still be configurable via Totalmix.

Is my understanding correct?

MIDI for Totalmix hardware control or MIDI to play software instruments via keyboard(s)? If the latter, it's not related to Totalmix!

And don't forget to think about how you want to clock sync all these devices! Digiface USB as master? Then all other units need an ADAT input and each has to be connected there from a Digiface ADAT output.

UCX - FF 400 - Babyface pro - Digiface USB - ADI-2 (original)
Mac mini M1 - Macbook pro - iPad Air2
  • Registered: 2016-10-26
  • Posts: 17

Re: Want More I/O - Currently have BF Pro + ADAT expansion

oli77sch wrote:
BuckleBean wrote:

And the MIDI I/O connected to the Babyface will still be configurable via Totalmix.

Is my understanding correct?

MIDI for Totalmix hardware control or MIDI to play software instruments via keyboard(s)? If the latter, it's not related to Totalmix!

And don't forget to think about how you want to clock sync all these devices! Digiface USB as master? Then all other units need an ADAT input and each has to be connected there from a Digiface ADAT output.

Right now, I'm using MIDI to sync the DAW clock (BPM) to outboard time-based effects. I was just thinking of how there are MIDI options under Options --> Settings in the Totalmix app. In there, for "MIDI Out," I have Babyface Midi Port 1 selected. Nothing connected to "MIDI In" at the moment. In my DAW, I have selected Babyface Midi Port 1 for my MIDI clock sync settings and all is well.

I expect Digiface USB would be master. All the rest slave. Both the Babyface Pro and the ADA8200 have both ADAT in and out and I'll be sure to have them connected to both. I appreciate the info. I was wanting to ensure the connectivity to utilize all of the I/O, but it's good to know that this also takes care of the clock sync.

This conversation has been so very helpful.

  • vinark
  • DAW Mastermind
  • Offline
  • Registered: 2009-06-05
  • Posts: 2,779

Re: Want More I/O - Currently have BF Pro + ADAT expansion

The midi in totalmix is for totalmix itself, romote controlling it. Midi in out is completely independent from that and works anyway you set it in totalmix.

Vincent, Amsterdam
https://soundcloud.com/thesecretworld
BFpro fs, 2X HDSP9652 ADI-8AE, 2X HDSP9632

14 Reply by vinark (edited by vinark 2023-11-29 20:48:07)

  • vinark
  • DAW Mastermind
  • Offline
  • Registered: 2009-06-05
  • Posts: 2,779

Re: Want More I/O - Currently have BF Pro + ADAT expansion

BuckleBean wrote:
vinark wrote:

Thats why I said, must be usb connected, to use it fully

Thank you. So, forget standalone mode. Leave the Babyface connected as it is now. Don't remove the driver.

Once the Digiface is connected and the relevant driver is installed, I can connect the Babyface and the ADA8200 to the Digiface and the Totalmix will show all available I/O. I can then use Totalmix to assign my monitors (Main), headphones, Speaker B, and any other routing I need.

When I open up my DAW (Cubase), I choose the Digiface driver and all of the I/O I have connected to the Digiface (Babyface + ADA8200) should be available in the DAW.

And the MIDI I/O connected to the Babyface will still be configurable via Totalmix.

Is my understanding correct?

Yes. Babyface is a separate tab in totalmix. There you set for example, Adat in1 and 2 go to the xlr outs for monitor and adat 3 and 4 to the phones out. Same with the inputs of the babyface.
So when you send to adat 1 and 2 of the adat port of the digiface it will go to your monitors. You can still use the rotary on the babyface to set your main out volume like this if you want too.
I use this too alittle differently. I have 2 machines one with the babyface, the other with a hdsp9652. The hdsp goes to the babyface via adat and the babyface takes care of monitors headphones and mic input..
It is even bigger then this involving anaother machine wich functions as a hardware synths input mixer into another hdsp9652 with 2x8 adat inputs.
Which is not very different from your wanted setup except synths vs fx so I need less outputs and more midi outs (Midex8 in my case).
Cheers!

Vincent, Amsterdam
https://soundcloud.com/thesecretworld
BFpro fs, 2X HDSP9652 ADI-8AE, 2X HDSP9632
  • Registered: 2016-10-26
  • Posts: 17

Re: Want More I/O - Currently have BF Pro + ADAT expansion

vinark wrote:

The midi in totalmix is for totalmix itself, romote controlling it. Midi in out is completely independent from that and works anyway you set it in totalmix.

Excellent.

  • Registered: 2016-10-26
  • Posts: 17

Re: Want More I/O - Currently have BF Pro + ADAT expansion

vinark wrote:
BuckleBean wrote:
vinark wrote:

Thats why I said, must be usb connected, to use it fully

Thank you. So, forget standalone mode. Leave the Babyface connected as it is now. Don't remove the driver.

Once the Digiface is connected and the relevant driver is installed, I can connect the Babyface and the ADA8200 to the Digiface and the Totalmix will show all available I/O. I can then use Totalmix to assign my monitors (Main), headphones, Speaker B, and any other routing I need.

When I open up my DAW (Cubase), I choose the Digiface driver and all of the I/O I have connected to the Digiface (Babyface + ADA8200) should be available in the DAW.

And the MIDI I/O connected to the Babyface will still be configurable via Totalmix.

Is my understanding correct?

Yes. Babyface is a separate tab in totalmix. There you set for example, Adat in1 and 2 go to the xlr outs for monitor and adat 3 and 4 to the phones out. Same with the inputs of the babyface.
So when you send to adat 1 and 2 of the adat port of the digiface it will go to your monitors. You can still use the rotary on the babyface to set your main out volume like this if you want too.
I use this too alittle differently. I have 2 machines one with the babyface, the other with a hdsp9652. The hdsp goes to the babyface via adat and the babyface takes care of monitors headphones and mic input..
It is even bigger then this involving anaother machine wich functions as a hardware synths input mixer into another hdsp9652 with 2x8 adat inputs.
Which is not very different from your wanted setup except synths vs fx so I need less outputs and more midi outs (Midex8 in my case).
Cheers!

Thank you, I think I'm in pretty good shape. I just placed an order for the Digiface. I think I'll ensure I can get everything set up and functioning before I move forward with another ADAT device.

Two machines sounds like it would be complicated, but as long as you take the time to route things appropriately, then it makes sense.

  • Registered: 2016-10-26
  • Posts: 17

Re: Want More I/O - Currently have BF Pro + ADAT expansion

From above:

"Yes. Babyface is a separate tab in totalmix. There you set for example, Adat in1 and 2 go to the xlr outs for monitor and adat 3 and 4 to the phones out. Same with the inputs of the babyface.
So when you send to adat 1 and 2 of the adat port of the digiface it will go to your monitors."

The Digiface is here and I found both tabs in totalmix, but I'm having trouble setting ADAT 1+2 to go to the XLR outs of my babyface. Any advice for how I should configure this? Once I nail this down, I think I should be able to set everything else up. Also, I believe I should be setting my Windows system sound to be, "Speakers - 2 - RME Digiface USB." I'm not getting any playback sound, but I think it's because I have not properly configured my XLR outs as described above.

18 Reply by waedi (edited by waedi 2023-12-05 01:45:45)

  • waedi
  • DAW Mastermind
  • Offline
  • From: Swiss Zürich
  • Registered: 2020-12-08
  • Posts: 4,544

Re: Want More I/O - Currently have BF Pro + ADAT expansion

The Babyface needs configuration, routing.
The signal comes from Adat 1/2 and you have to route it to AN1/2 analog outputs XLR.
In Babyface-Totalmix, click the hardware output channel AN1/2 and pull up the fader from hardware input channels Adat 1/2 (AS1/2).
Is Babyface in Stand-alone-mode then use the instructions on page 92 in the user manual.
Press button OUT (select analog output 1/2, XLR outputs), press 1 time or multiple times.
Press button IN (select adat input 1/2 ), press 1 time or multiple times. I think 3 times.
Press MIX
Use SELECT to choose between left, right or both channels
Turn the jog wheel to make the music loud.

M1-Sequoia, Madiface Pro, Digiface USB, Babyface silver and blue
  • Registered: 2016-10-26
  • Posts: 17

Re: Want More I/O - Currently have BF Pro + ADAT expansion

waedi wrote:

The Babyface needs configuration, routing.
The signal comes from Adat 1/2 and you have to route it to AN1/2 analog outputs XLR.
In Babyface-Totalmix, click the hardware output channel AN1/2 and pull up the fader from hardware input channels Adat 1/2 (AS1/2).

Thank you, I wonder if I simply hadn't raised the fader.

As an aside, just in case I couldn't figure this out, I reset my totalmix setup and got really concerned when I had no audio signal from my headphones. Turns out it they were plugged into Input 3! Sometimes the fix really is that easy. I got a good laugh out of it at least.

  • waedi
  • DAW Mastermind
  • Offline
  • From: Swiss Zürich
  • Registered: 2020-12-08
  • Posts: 4,544

Re: Want More I/O - Currently have BF Pro + ADAT expansion

Same to me the guitar didn't arrive in Totalmix, RME is guilty nothing works, turns out guitar was plugged to headphones socket.

M1-Sequoia, Madiface Pro, Digiface USB, Babyface silver and blue
  • Registered: 2016-10-26
  • Posts: 17

Re: Want More I/O - Currently have BF Pro + ADAT expansion

waedi wrote:

Same to me the guitar didn't arrive in Totalmix, RME is guilty nothing works, turns out guitar was plugged to headphones socket.

This is the sort of thing that gets me so utterly bewildered. Like, I just know I've done everything right. And then... yeah, I'm a dumb ass.

  • Registered: 2016-10-26
  • Posts: 17

Re: Want More I/O - Currently have BF Pro + ADAT expansion

I'm in business. I hadn't raised the faders. I have some decisions to make about how I want to configure this, but this is going to work out great.

  • Registered: 2016-10-26
  • Posts: 17

Re: Want More I/O - Currently have BF Pro + ADAT expansion

I ran into an issue and I want to share the solution in case someone stumbles onto this thread looking to do something similar.

Remember to set your clock source in the Babyface USB settings applet to "Optical In" if you are using the Digiface as master.

I had mine set to "Internal." I had been getting some pops/clicks and was convinced it was either my DAW or buffer settings. After ruling those out as well as cables and a whole host of USB and Windows settings among other things, I came across these threads:

https://forum.rme-audio.de/viewtopic.php?id=31356
https://forum.rme-audio.de/viewtopic.php?id=32268

Neither of these solved my issue exactly, but gave me enough information to figure things out. Seems obvious in hindsight, but easy to overlook.