Topic: Yet another one of those "which card" posts

So in reality I know that there's tons of combinations that will work, however seems like most people have a specific set of goals and how it performs in those areas comes down to planning.

So my priorities are simple:

1.) absolute best performance at the lowest buffer with a very large track count.
(I'm aware that usb/thunderbolt can perform *close* but I don't want close - I want the best I can get for this particular facet of performance regardless of the convenience/tradeoffs I sacrifice)

2.) high end converters for end of chain monitoring.
I've been looking at the adi 2/4 se for this very purpose(bonus that it comes with 2 combo inputs)

3.) ability to add atleast ONE expansion of inputs. Ideally one day this'll be higher end, but probably something like the pulse 16 simply to use totalmix to turn it into a bunch of fx loops. I've only a need for a few microphones, I don't plan on recording analog drums again.

==============================================================
scenario one
==============================================================
hdspe aio pro
aes into adi 2/4 SE feeding my hs8's(or whatever I eventually choose to replace them with!)
an 8 I/O adat of somekind

from what I understand, the newer AIO pro is supposed to be even faster latency round trip? This should check number 1 box the best and satisfy number 2 while taking a fair hit the expandability with number 3, although this is the lowest priority it's not a deal breaker at that point.

==============================================================
scenario two
==============================================================
hdspe raydat
aes into adi 2/4 SE feeding my hs8s
an 8 I/O adat of somekind

this from what I understand has slightly worse(but still nearly best in class) round trip latency but the trade off is significantly more expandability.

==============================================================
scenario three
==============================================================
hdspe madi fx
aes into adi 2/4 feeding my hs8s
madi out to something like the pulse 16, then expanding using that ADAT

this again sounds like I lose a little out of number 1(round trip latency), is significantly more expensive - but comes at the added bonus of having FX internally with nearly no latency added.



Much appreciate the advice. I saw somewhere that the converters in the AIO PRO were also as good as the ones on the ADI 2/4 but I'm not sure how this pans out - would I just get an XLR breakout cable to hook them into my HS8s? And at that rate is this truly going to be as high quality monitoring as the fancy ADI 2/4 SE?



other questions people might ask:
I plan on using 48k pretty much exclusively.
I'm working on an 8+ computer setup at the moment hosting virtual instruments in VEPRO, transporting ~128 stereo outs per machine over ethernet. I'm working on solutions to bring the latency down on all of these but there will be very few actual plugins in my DAW as they are processed mostly before my DAW ever sees them.
The instruments I would be hooking up would be my guitar/bass/mic as well pedals/kemper and playing VDrums(superior drummer)

Currently I use a studiocapture - which the power button to turn it on barely works, and the drivers aren't anything to be proud of.   I struggle getting the buffer down before it breaks up.

My current setup consists of a bunch of r9 5950x's, running off m.2 ssds.

Re: Yet another one of those "which card" posts

HDSPe MADI FX is a nice card with an optimized driver.
See my review.
As an option I would consider adding a reference converter to it for monitoring to its AES port, e.g. ADI-2 Pro FS.

https://www.tonstudio-forum.de/blog/Ent … Pro-FS-BE/
Download the PDF v1.1 with the full review: https://www.tonstudio-forum.de/attachme … -v1-1-pdf/

https://www.tonstudio-forum.de/blog/Ent … our-Setup/

https://www.tonstudio-forum.de/blog/Ent … ses-EN-DE/

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub13

3 (edited by vinark 2023-11-27 11:38:43)

Re: Yet another one of those "which card" posts

If best buffer performance is number 1 for you, it is aio or raydat although usb is very very close asio performance wise. On the digital outs there is no difference in roundtrip between both, they use the same driver. So get what fills your needs best.
If you also get one of the ADI2 versions, a raydat seems more logical to me, but that is just me.
I have a HDSP9652 with babayface proFS, poor mans raydat plus adi2 lol. but sounding and working great! My PC's still support PCI. For extra inputs to my HDSP9652 I use an old ADI8AE and FW1804(tascam). All sounds wonderfull and works without a hicup.

Although the UFX3 will do all you need in a single box. No ADI2 needed.

Vincent, Amsterdam
https://soundcloud.com/thesecretworld
BFpro fs, 2X HDSP9652 ADI-8AE, 2X HDSP9632

Re: Yet another one of those "which card" posts

vinark wrote:

If best buffer performance is number 1 for you, it is aio or raydat although usb is very very close asio performance wise. On the digital outs there is no difference in roundtrip between both, they use the same driver. So get what fills your needs best.
If you also get one of the ADI2 versions, a raydat seems more logical to me, but that is just me.
I have a HDSP9652 with babayface proFS, poor mans raydat plus adi2 lol. but sounding and working great! My PC's still support PCI. For extra inputs to my HDSP9652 I use an old ADI8AE and FW1804(tascam). All sounds wonderfull and works without a hicup.

Although the UFX3 will do all you need in a single box. No ADI2 needed.

What means "needed"? Maybe from your personal perspective. But is is exactly his view, demands?

I wrote "as an option".

ADI-2 still has some nice features and benefits which might be interesting.
Decision up to him, only wanted to mention it.

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub13

Re: Yet another one of those "which card" posts

This was in response to his posting wanting an ADI 2/4 not your post. So my remark not even a suggestion was. Raydat with ADI and ferrofisch, or ufx3 only.
If lowest asio load is absolutly most importent, go PCIe. But from my own testing of usb on intel chipset usb2 vs PCI there is not much advantage to PCI, but still a little under very high cpu loads due to VSTi and or VST.

Vincent, Amsterdam
https://soundcloud.com/thesecretworld
BFpro fs, 2X HDSP9652 ADI-8AE, 2X HDSP9632

Re: Yet another one of those "which card" posts

vinark wrote:

This was in response to his posting wanting an ADI 2/4 not your post. So my remark not even a suggestion was. Raydat with ADI and ferrofisch, or ufx3 only.
If lowest asio load is absolutly most importent, go PCIe. But from my own testing of usb on intel chipset usb2 vs PCI there is not much advantage to PCI, but still a little under very high cpu loads due to VSTi and or VST.

Ah ok, I hadn't seen that, vinark :-)

Regarding load and "USB vs PCIe". Interesting that you seem to have made similar experiences, that the difference between USB and PCIe under load is not that much.

I had for example, no audio dropouts with my artificial load project using an ASIO buffersize of 64 samples @singlespeed and when utilizing the CPU up to 99-100%. Didn't expect myself, how well this works:
https://forum.rme-audio.de/viewtopic.ph … 92#p210092

Never tried it before because I wouldn't like to create such a load during recording related activities.

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub13

Re: Yet another one of those "which card" posts

I'll be honest I didn't expect 5 posts already, awesome stuff.

At the moment, honestly kind of leaning towards the RAYDAT

especially since of I add something to the adat like the cranborne unit, I could be doing some really flexible routing with total mix.
then something more akin to a bunch of 1/4 in and outs just to use as a fancy pedal board would be anything I'd need.

Re: Yet another one of those "which card" posts

Scratch that, I've commited.

ADI 2/4 pro SE - ordered
HDSPe RAYDAT - ordered

I should be able to figure out how to get this AES thing rolling - in the mean time if I understand correctly, I have atleast total mix and 2 ins with good AD/DA and some ADAT for whatever I decide to get next.

Re: Yet another one of those "which card" posts

Am I mad? Anyone wanna help me either a shipping kit of what I need to connect the raydat to the adi with aes?

Never used that cable and it looks like just a 9 pin d sub but I don't see other cables that look like that

Re: Yet another one of those "which card" posts

waedi wrote:

Two of these cables and regular XLR cables in between.

https://www.thomann.de/de/rme_bo968_aes … tkabel.htm


I ordered one of these, I believe the raydat came with one? Also ordered some AES/EBU XLR cables' simply because I'd need to run 2 more cables anyways, so might as well buy some that are labelled what I need them for(just incase there is some sort of difference)

I just thought it was odd, couldn't I just use a 9 pin D-sub in theory?

Re: Yet another one of those "which card" posts

adminatron wrote:
waedi wrote:

Two of these cables and regular XLR cables in between.

https://www.thomann.de/de/rme_bo968_aes … tkabel.htm


I ordered one of these, I believe the raydat came with one? Also ordered some AES/EBU XLR cables' simply because I'd need to run 2 more cables anyways, so might as well buy some that are labelled what I need them for(just incase there is some sort of difference)

I just thought it was odd, couldn't I just use a 9 pin D-sub in theory?

That's a good question and it would be great, but unfortunately I think it will not work as we want to connect from AES output to AES input, the direct D-sub cable would connect from Output to Output...

M1-Sonoma, Madiface Pro, Digiface USB, Babyface silver and blue

12

Re: Yet another one of those "which card" posts

Both RayDAT and ADI-2/4 come with the digital breakout cable, so only balanced XLR cable is needed in-between.

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME

Re: Yet another one of those "which card" posts

MC wrote:

Both RayDAT and ADI-2/4 come with the digital breakout cable, so only balanced XLR cable is needed in-between.

Awesome. Canceled the breakout cables

I have an interesting question while i have your attention...

Since the  ADI and Raydat Are two different drivers Would it be possible to use them simultaneously in different programs? I can think of a few odd use cases, But I have no idea how it would respond if I had the ADI as the primary output for the raydat via aes but also used the USB for the ADI to run another daw. I assume they'd have to be the same sample rate/buffer/ect?

Or maybe this simply won't work because of the settings?

Would be cool to use it as a very low buffer to run impulses/vdrums while the raydat uses a bigger buffer for the orchestral work. Likewise would be cool to use the ADI driver in a 2nd daw for a mastering chain isolated on another machine.

Re: Yet another one of those "which card" posts

Just an update, was able to run my vdrums through a pretty hefty setup in superior drummer, an aux and a limiter with 32 sample buffer in the USB madiface driver(adat isn't here yet)

That's insane