• Registered: 2023-12-10
  • Posts: 18

Topic: comparing Topping E50 dac to ADI-2 Pro FS R, noob question;

Hi,

I did an A-B comparison of sound quality of the Topping E50 dac compared to the ADI-2 Pro FS R.
The Topping is a very competent dac and should as such outperform the ADI-2 Pro FS R, based on reviews on Audio Science Review;
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/foru … dac.26219/

But what I don't understand; instruments seem better separated on the ADI-2 Pro FS R, as with the Topping E50, almost as if I'm in right front of the orchestra and instrument have their place in a 3D Stereo image.

Is this a mindfuck,
or a discerning quality of the ADI-2 Pro, that's not tested on Audio Science Review, or a (psycho)acoustic quality that cannot be tested objectively and expressed in numbers ?

Kind regards,

Michiel

  • waedi
  • DAW Mastermind
  • Offline
  • From: Swiss Zürich
  • Registered: 2020-12-08
  • Posts: 4,527

Re: comparing Topping E50 dac to ADI-2 Pro FS R, noob question;

The precision and accuracy of the ADI-2 is mindblowing ?
yes sure.

M1-Sequoia, Madiface Pro, Digiface USB, Babyface silver and blue
  • From: living in Cologne
  • Registered: 2022-01-14
  • Posts: 41

Re: comparing Topping E50 dac to ADI-2 Pro FS R, noob question;

Michiel, this is a cool question and you should ask it over there in ASR ;-)
I would like to read the answer.

In my eyes numbers are just numbers, if they exceed a certain level. Not more and not less. Differences have to sought elsewhere.
Regarding numbers - my Audial TD1541 DAC is easily outperformed by any modern DAC in terms of numbers. And for my ears its 3D stage is even better than the stage of my ADI2PRO.
In other things the ADI is better.
Cheers.

Cheers, Ernst

ADI-2 PRO FS R BE / ADI-2 DAC FS / some old multibit treasuers ;-)

4 Reply by KaiS (edited by KaiS 2023-12-25 18:20:12)

  • KaiS
  • DAW Mastermind
  • Offline
  • From: Germany
  • Registered: 2020-02-05
  • Posts: 3,525

Re: comparing Topping E50 dac to ADI-2 Pro FS R, noob question;

I have an old Revox CD player, based on the very first Philips CD player architecture, with 14 bit resolution only:

I sounds really good, no joke!


Most A/B comparisons suffer from conceptual problems.
E.g.:
• Did you check for exact level matching within a few 1/100 of a dB?
• Was it blind A/B?
• Did you hace direct, immediate switching beween the devices under test?
• Have there been enough A/Bs to exclude a result “by chance”, at least ca. 100?
• Did you note each result for statistical eveluation?
• … ?

The list can be longer.


Only if the differences are VERY obvious some of the above could be skipped, but never exact level matching.

KaiS's Website

5 Reply by MichielDeBink (edited by MichielDeBink 2023-12-25 18:47:13)

  • Registered: 2023-12-10
  • Posts: 18

Re: comparing Topping E50 dac to ADI-2 Pro FS R, noob question;

Yes, good comment;

I used an high quality Goldpoint XLR switch, to compare the Topping and ADI-2 as directly as possible. I also left the switch not knowing which dac was selected and next day, try to guess what was what. The difference was clear though.
And you're right; even a little difference in spl / volume can make a dac sound better or thin compared to the other smile

  • Registered: 2023-12-10
  • Posts: 18

Re: comparing Topping E50 dac to ADI-2 Pro FS R, noob question;

emeissl wrote:

Michiel, this is a cool question and you should ask it over there in ASR ;-)
I would like to read the answer.

In my eyes numbers are just numbers, if they exceed a certain level. Not more and not less. Differences have to sought elsewhere.
Regarding numbers - my Audial TD1541 DAC is easily outperformed by any modern DAC in terms of numbers. And for my ears its 3D stage is even better than the stage of my ADI2PRO.
In other things the ADI is better.
Cheers.

same thing here smile can't stand it, not knowing why

  • From: living in Cologne
  • Registered: 2022-01-14
  • Posts: 41

Re: comparing Topping E50 dac to ADI-2 Pro FS R, noob question;

Hi Michiel, as a hobbyist for me "not knowing why" is totally ok. And I sometimes smile about the ernestness of discussions on ASR. Cheers

Cheers, Ernst

ADI-2 PRO FS R BE / ADI-2 DAC FS / some old multibit treasuers ;-)
  • Kubrak
  • DAW Mastermind
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  • Registered: 2023-08-03
  • Posts: 548

Re: comparing Topping E50 dac to ADI-2 Pro FS R, noob question;

Also monitors and room play role. Or headphones. And listener as well.

So, the blind test should be done at least 100 times for each listener (at least 3, the more better) and each monitor/phone type (3 or more). And different types of music should be used....

So, absolute minimum tests is about 900. And it must be blind tests. The best would be double blind tests.

Unless, the result is clearly obvious....

  • Registered: 2023-12-10
  • Posts: 18

Re: comparing Topping E50 dac to ADI-2 Pro FS R, noob question;

emeissl wrote:

Hi Michiel, as a hobbyist for me "not knowing why" is totally ok. And I sometimes smile about the ernestness of discussions on ASR. Cheers

Yes, ignorence can be bliss smile happy hollidays

  • Registered: 2023-12-10
  • Posts: 18

Re: comparing Topping E50 dac to ADI-2 Pro FS R, noob question;

Kubrak wrote:

Also monitors and room play role. Or headphones. And listener as well.

So, the blind test should be done at least 100 times for each listener (at least 3, the more better) and each monitor/phone type (3 or more). And different types of music should be used....

So, absolute minimum tests is about 900. And it must be blind tests. The best would be double blind tests.

Unless, the result is clearly obvious....

I guess I can’t refute that smile

  • Registered: 2022-02-06
  • Posts: 42

Re: comparing Topping E50 dac to ADI-2 Pro FS R, noob question;

Well...If you ask me the problem is likely ASR. They're a fairly controversial group who are accused by their detractors as being "all measure - no listen". Although that's not entirely fair I rarely put much faith in their findings. Many others do. Also, although in some respects a DAC's measurements can be important, measurements are not always an indication of how a DAC will sound. IMO...my ADI-2 DAC FS easily beats my previous DACs that included a Topping D90SE, Gustard X16, and SMSL DO200, all of which ASR really liked. That's when I stopped believing in their reviews.