Topic: UFX III stutters - Audio problems

Ever since I got the RME UFX III I haven't had a day without stutters.
Recording or mixing in Logic will eventually stutter or drop outs occur.

Macbook Pro M1pro. RME has his own usb-c port.
Now running Sonoma but like I stated it has been having these issues on the previous OS also.
I tried running Logic in rosetta mode because sometimes there are pluggins running in rosetta.
Logic in Apple silicon mode. same thing.

I tried both latest available RME Drivers V3 and V4.
I haven't been more unsatisfied from an audio interface than the last few months with this RME.

If I view the forum there doesn't seem to be a solution or I sure can't find it.
But is there?

cheers

2 (edited by waedi 2023-11-04 01:42:26)

Re: UFX III stutters - Audio problems

Someone claimed that the buffer in newer MacOS (Ventura etc) has a weird effect on CPU.
It says too big buffersize causes CPU multicore usage confusion.
And small buffer shall be the cure...
Give it a try and set the I/O buffer to 64 samples or lower in Logic preferences / Audio

M1-Sequoia, Madiface Pro, Digiface USB, Babyface silver and blue

3 (edited by GeometryGod 2023-11-04 04:56:31)

Re: UFX III stutters - Audio problems

I am having the exact same issue.

I have tried contacting RME, made a post on this forum, and have yet to get a response from RME.

Very dissapointed.

Re: UFX III stutters - Audio problems

It may be Apple´s fault, not RME's... It is probably caused by big.little CPU architecture and OS wrongly allocating certain threads to  efficiency cores instead of power ones.....

Similar problems may happen on latest intel CPUs on Win. But on win user may switch off efficiency cores or finetune what program uses what cores....

It seems to me it is not possible on Apple...

Re: UFX III stutters - Audio problems

Kubrak wrote:

It may be Apple´s fault, not RME's... It is probably caused by big.little CPU architecture and OS wrongly allocating certain threads to  efficiency cores instead of power ones.....

Similar problems may happen on latest intel CPUs on Win. But on win user may switch off efficiency cores or finetune what program uses what cores....

It seems to me it is not possible on Apple...

If thats truly the case, RME should not claim their product is compatible with these systems.

Re: UFX III stutters - Audio problems

No, if that is the case, you should open a complain ticket with Apple and ask them to fix it!
If you search around the web, it does not happen only with RME interfaces. It happens with other manufacturers, as well.
And there are many people that don't have any problem, at all.

RME Gear: Digiface USB, HDSP 9632

7 (edited by ss 2023-11-09 02:57:55)

Re: UFX III stutters - Audio problems

tzk wrote:

Ever since I got the RME UFX III I haven't had a day without stutters.
Recording or mixing in Logic will eventually stutter or drop outs occur.

Macbook Pro M1pro. RME has his own usb-c port.
Now running Sonoma but like I stated it has been having these issues on the previous OS also.
I tried running Logic in rosetta mode because sometimes there are pluggins running in rosetta.
Logic in Apple silicon mode. same thing.

I tried both latest available RME Drivers V3 and V4.
I haven't been more unsatisfied from an audio interface than the last few months with this RME.

If I view the forum there doesn't seem to be a solution or I sure can't find it.
But is there?

cheers

Do you get these issues when just using computer audio sound on your desktop?
Playing YouTube, playing Spotify etc?

Or only in your DAW?

Re: UFX III stutters - Audio problems

I get it in the daw or when using the computer normally.

At the moment I turned the high security back on and installed the latest V4.09 again.
High security was off all these time. Which is also needed for V3 usage.

It is going better. Some hiccups once in a while so not completely solved.

Re: UFX III stutters - Audio problems

I also have this stutter problem with Sonoma, try this: start computer in safe mode, then restart. It worked for me, also I had problems witht touch screen, now everything is back to normal.

Juan José Salazar
Sonic Animal Music
RME Babyface, Win 10, Mac Catalina, Pro Tools, Nuendo, Ableton

Re: UFX III stutters - Audio problems

juanjosalazar wrote:

I also have this stutter problem with Sonoma, try this: start computer in safe mode, then restart. It worked for me, also I had problems witht touch screen, now everything is back to normal.

I have tried this and unfortunately does not fix my stuttering on my M1 Max / UFX III

Re: UFX III stutters - Audio problems

I have an M1 Pro + UFX III and I tried all these combinations:
- ventura + driver V3 = no issue
- ventura + diver V4 = issue
- sonoma + driver V4 = issue

Every time I have some audio playing (from whatever source), and I open or close another app, the audio glitches with the stutter.
I am tempted to try the new M3 and see if the issue happens on cpu of different generation.

12

Re: UFX III stutters - Audio problems

Mixing with the UFX III is absolutely a pain.
I came across a text regarding a so called bug in Logic and delay compensation calculation. That it only counts the pdc at the start of the session or when you reset the audio driver. I find this hard to believe although I do find it possible with the RME.

If I add big latency plugins I get immense stuttering when I hit play, this is solved when I reset the audio driver in Logic's audio settings but reappears when adding plugins.

The thing is, I can mix without any errors when using the build in headphones. So something is messing up buffers with the RME.
In sonoma there's an orange microphone at the top right showing. With the stuttering is flashes.

Is there any solution, explanation or even an investigation from RME?
Do I need to sell my UFX III because this is not workable?

Re: UFX III stutters - Audio problems

A statement from Justin (Reaper maker) :
There have always been some reasons why there is an optimal range of blocksizes rather than "larger is better", CPU have cache which smaller blocks will fit more easily in, depending entirely on the context of use of course... and diminishing returns from larger blocksizes. I doubt it has much to do with specific optimizations on the M1-3 and more just about cache and thread synchronization behaviors. Anyway...

M1-Sequoia, Madiface Pro, Digiface USB, Babyface silver and blue

14 (edited by ramses 2023-12-29 05:22:55)

Re: UFX III stutters - Audio problems

I think your portrayal is technically not correct (looks as if you put a statement out of context), see longer text below *)

In terms of audio loss. More likely is what we read the last months in this forum about all the issues. Partially it were Apple problems, but some problems seemed to be caused on kind of "upgrade installations" of users, where a complete new installation could cure some or all problems.

*) You see it e.g. clear with Cubase under Windows. Decrease ASIO buffersize, and you will see an increase in (EDIT:) CPU and ASIO load.  What happens with smaller buffer sizes is simply a higher interrupt load, which is always bad for a system.
The principles are all the same, regardless of which CPU, which OS.

Because the interrupts block CPU cores for other activities and the CPU also has to switch the context much more often and reload all CPU registers with the other context. That's a lot of work for a CPU (management overhead).
Imagine you had to empty a bathtub at a predetermined time interval (e.g. 5 minutes) with a bucket or a glass of water. I think with a water glass you would work up a sweat to get the same amount of water filled in the same amount of time.
All channels are always transmitted on the computer/recording interface. The data must be collected in a timely manner. If you put additional stress on the CPU with small buffers during a high workload, then dropouts are more likely to occur.
The art is
1. to use good drivers that do not occupy a CPU for too long, because the drivers have the highest priority and the process scheduler has no control over the length of time the driver stays on the CPU core (due to data integrity, Windows and MacOS are not real-time systems
2. taming of background processes, to lower the system load, to have more headroom for audio processing in time.
3. to adapt the buffer sizes to the needs of the work/project. When recording, use high buffer sizes (so that nothing is lost). Middle range when mixing/mastering. When playing via VSTs, smaller buffers so that the RTL stays under 10ms.

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub13

15

Re: UFX III stutters - Audio problems

Let me clarify that the stuttering happens when you hit play. Like an engine trying to start. It keeps skipping and stuttering. This happens with rme. This doesn’t happen with built in audio. Same session same cpu load (we’re not hitting it hard). Buffer sizes doesn’t change anything.

16

Re: UFX III stutters - Audio problems

Tried class compliant mode. Still happens with the RME, tried different usb-c ports and even a hub. My guess it needs a firmware update.

A €298 Motu M4, same usb-c port, no problems at all.

17

Re: UFX III stutters - Audio problems

Did you saw this post? https://forum.rme-audio.de/viewtopic.php?id=38456

I shared my experience and the solutions I found to fix these issues: you need to make sure that you don't have both drivers and you need to use a USB 2 cable.

18

Re: UFX III stutters - Audio problems

If there is an old driver hanging around it is there because the other did not work.
Not possible to try the usb2 cable trick as I've sold it.

This UFX III gave me so much headaches and stress that I'm glad it is gone. Cost me a lot of money but good riddance.
The lack of solutions from RME was mind-boggling. It is possible it was my system (although only 1 year old macbook pro M1pro) but there are more problems than just mine. The other systemextensions I found were 2 from motu, I removed those as well.

In case someone wants to remove old systemextensions in MacOs.
I tried removing all "old" drivers from RME but you'll need a workaround, follow this explanation:

https://www.reddit.com/r/MacOS/comments … sions_not/


from the reddit explanation:

Reboot into recovery mode (restart and hold down ⌘+R  or hold powerbutton)
Under the menu item Utilities launch Terminal app
Enter csrutil disable to disable System Integrity Protection (SIP)
Reboot again
Now open the Terminal.app
Enter systemextensionsctl list and hit return
You'll get a list of all installed system extensions that looks something like this:

--- com.apple.system_extension.endpoint_security   
enabled active teamID     bundleID                 (version)   name       [state]   
*       *      67AK2U2X7M de.rme-audio.dkusb (1.0.36/5)   de.rme-audio.dkusb [activated enabled]

Note the teamID and the bundleID of the system extensions you want to uninstall, we'll use those in a second.

8. In my case you'd enter
sudo systemextensionsctl uninstall 67AK2U2X7M de.rme-audio.dkusb
in the Terminal and hit return. As a general formula it would be:
sudo systemextensionsctl uninstall teamID bundleID
9. If everything went well you should get feedback that says Success
10. Now you can go to the Finder and remove the files/folders of the extensions you wanted to get rid of in /Library/SystemExtensions. Just drag them to the trash. You'll be asked for an admin password and that's it.
11. Reboot again in recovery mode (see point 1.)
12. Under the menu item Utilities launch Terminal app
13. Enter csrutil enable to re-enable the SIP
14. Reboot again and live a happy life ever after.