• From: Spain
  • Registered: 2023-12-19
  • Posts: 15

Topic: ADI-2 DAC and (DSP) active monitors

When using an ADI-2 DAC FS R as a preamplifier attached with XLR cables couple of active studio monitors, what happens when the monitors includes a DSP stage?

For example, attaching an ADI-2 DAC to a couple of ADAM Audio A7V monitors. These monitors have an ADC at their input, a DSP stage and couple of DAC (one for each way) previous to the amplifiers. According to ADAM Audio, the ADC block uses a 24 bit at 96 kHz sample rate.

I wonder:

What's the point of using an ADI-2 DAC if another DAC will be used after it?
What's the point of using a sample rate higher than 96 kHz if the active monitor will upsample at 96 kHz?
What would be the point of using a Direct DSD stream (+ an external preamp) if the recent analog signal will be digitalized back (probably as PCM)?

We'd better use an active monitor without DSP stage and let ADI-2 DAC (or another one) do its job?

2 Reply by waedi (edited by waedi 2024-01-02 15:23:56)

  • waedi
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  • From: Swiss Zürich
  • Registered: 2020-12-08
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Re: ADI-2 DAC and (DSP) active monitors

Todays active monitors use class D amps, digital amplifiers.
Technically one can say it's too much converter involved.
Practically it's cheap and the result is good quality sound.
Adam makes great monitors, the ADI-2 delivers perfect analog signal.
If the monitors have digital inputs, use those.

M1-Sequoia, Madiface Pro, Digiface USB, Babyface silver and blue
  • KaiS
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Re: ADI-2 DAC and (DSP) active monitors

ADI-2 makes sense as in various ways:

• Source switching.
• Computer interface.
• Multiple DSP functions like EQ to tailor the sound.
• Headphones output.
• Listening level control.

ADI-2 DAC, opposed to ADI-2 Pro and ADI-2/4, has no digital outs.
So analog connection is the way to go.
No problem, specially with good level matching.

KaiS's Website

  • From: Spain
  • Registered: 2023-12-19
  • Posts: 15

Re: ADI-2 DAC and (DSP) active monitors

The point is:

After going from digital domain to analog domain with an excellent device like an ADI-2 and getting a nice analog signal at its output, I don't think that it is a good idea to use studio monitors with a built-in DSP, that will lead to another ADC-DAC cycle.

5 Reply by KaiS (edited by KaiS 2024-01-03 00:02:37)

  • KaiS
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Re: ADI-2 DAC and (DSP) active monitors

acatala wrote:

The point is:

After going from digital domain to analog domain with an excellent device like an ADI-2 and getting a nice analog signal at its output, I don't think that it is a good idea to use studio monitors with a built-in DSP, that will lead to another ADC-DAC cycle.

AD-DA has reached a technical standard that studios in earlier times couldn‘t even dream of.
You listen to their recordings every day.

It‘s the result that counts.

Analog<>digital conversion with DSPs has much less negative impact on the sound than analog hardware’s signal processing e.g. in a speaker crossover.
Specifically if sample rates of 88.2 kHz and higher are used.

Anyway - the Adam Audio AV7 don‘t have a digital audio input, so feeding the best possible analog signal is the way to go.

KaiS's Website

  • Registered: 2023-06-30
  • Posts: 161

Re: ADI-2 DAC and (DSP) active monitors

acatala wrote:

The point is:

After going from digital domain to analog domain with an excellent device like an ADI-2 and getting a nice analog signal at its output, I don't think that it is a good idea to use studio monitors with a built-in DSP, that will lead to another ADC-DAC cycle.

What specifically you don't like in the sound of your setup? I bet any flaws in SQ are not due to the additional AD/DA conversion. And even if there was a problem, you always can use proper monitors with digital inputs and avoid that.

Fireface UCX II + ARC USB > ADI-2 Pro FS R BE > Neumann KH 750 DSP + MA 1 > KH 120 A
  • From: Spain
  • Registered: 2023-12-19
  • Posts: 15

Re: ADI-2 DAC and (DSP) active monitors

Not my setup. I don't use studio monitors at this time. I am a Hi-Fi user and use a common setup with preamp + amplifier + passive loudspeakers. It's just curiosity.

Regarding your statement, if monitors with digital inputs are used, then we wouldn't need a DAC in the chain anymore, the built-in DAC in the monitors would be enough.

I have no problem with the AD-DA conversion at studio monitor, just I wonder if the work done before this last AD-DA cycle is "useless". I am trying to put an example:

We start with a 16/44.1 kHz upsampled to DSD256 with HQPlayer, this stream reaches an ADI-2 DAC FS R (AKM version) configured  in DSD Direct mode. Once the stream is converted to analog domain, are you going to digitalize again perhaps in PCM mode? Another example would be starting with a 24/192 kHz stream because at the AD-DA stage at the monitors, the sample rate will be 96 kHz.

Perhaps my point of view is from a Hi-Fi perspective. But as I said, it's just out of curiosity.

8 Reply by unpluggged (edited by unpluggged 2024-01-03 08:14:38)

  • Registered: 2023-06-30
  • Posts: 161

Re: ADI-2 DAC and (DSP) active monitors

acatala wrote:

We start with a 16/44.1 kHz upsampled to DSD256 with HQPlayer

And after that you ask if the digital to analog conversion is useless? The A7V requires analog signal as its input, so you end up with that, and as KaiS has pointed it out, the higher the quality of this signal, the better. With other monitors that have digital inputs there could be room for speculations about how AD/DA conversion affects the sound quality and whether it is useless to feed them with analog signal or not (I personally prefer as few conversions as possible, and my ADI-2 Pro FS R gives me both options), but it have been shown beyond any substantial argument that the transducers, the DSP, the speakers as a whole (and for actives, their own noise floor), and the listening space affect sound by multiple orders of magnitude more than an AD/DA cycle.

acatala wrote:

I am a Hi-Fi user and use a common setup with preamp + amplifier + passive loudspeakers.

This chain introduces much more artifacts into the signal than a combination of ADC and DAC.

Conclusion: you don't have to worry about "wasting" your DAC to feed properly implemented DSP-based speakers.

Fireface UCX II + ARC USB > ADI-2 Pro FS R BE > Neumann KH 750 DSP + MA 1 > KH 120 A
  • From: Spain
  • Registered: 2023-12-19
  • Posts: 15

Re: ADI-2 DAC and (DSP) active monitors

unpluggged wrote:

And after that you ask if the digital to analog conversion is useless?

Please, don't misunderstand me. Perhaps I have not been able to expose my point in the rigth way I find useful the digital domain. As a matter of fact, I use Roon's Muse (DSP) and HQPlayer too.

It's awesome how different can be the answers to the same problem when answered from distinct perspectives. The same question has been stated in another forum with another perspective and the answers are quite the opposite. Of course, all of you seem trusted professionals, so all of your answers (at both forums) are highly relevant to me.

I am not going to purchase active studio monitors in the short term, but perhaps in the future, I will. Your information is very useful to me.

I like this forum, I really do.

10 Reply by IdleTalk (edited by IdleTalk 2024-01-05 14:00:56)

  • Registered: 2021-12-24
  • Posts: 47

Re: ADI-2 DAC and (DSP) active monitors

This is the ultimate answer for your current concern with A7V & ADI-2 DAC.

KaiS wrote:

Anyway - the Adam Audio AV7 don‘t have a digital audio input, so feeding the best possible analog signal is the way to go.

Besides, I also understand your concern from another perspective, that of HiFi.
From that perspective, however, the problem is with A7V, not with ADI-2 DAC.

If an active speaker has AD-DSP-DA chain, than it MUST have digital input to let users skip its first stage. That would be far superior solution than feeding any best possible analog signal to a DSP. Or ADAM could put digital input ONLY, to make their product cheaper while providing the single best possible solution at the expense of versatility.

Providing AD converter before DSP for versatility but not letting skip that, is a very unthoughtful and indolent design. As you know, "best possible analog signal" is very expensive compared to digital signal. If A7V had proper digital input, such a high performance DAC like RME wouldn't be necessary at all. ADAM chose to pass on the cost of "high quality analog signal" to consumers, to spare few cents for digital connectors on their side.

I personally won't buy anything from that brand after I read this discussion.
Maybe that can be your "solution" too, if you didn't buy studio monitors yet.