• Registered: 2021-03-31
  • Posts: 5

Topic: Snapshot control via midi over USB

I have an original Babyface ( the blue one)

Can I control the babyface by midi over the USB cable from my DAW?

I want to simply switch between snapshot 1 and snapshot two when I change patches in my DAW.

If it matters, I am using Gig performer in conjunction with a bass guitar into external effects, than into Babyface/Gig performer finally out to poweramp/bass cab.

My idea is to avoid latency roundtrip by using a snapshot set to only monitor the input (bass guitar after external efx) and then only use the software playback and mute the input when using VST effects inside Gig performer.

Until now I have not gotten any reaction at all from Totalmix on any of the published note on messages.

Thanks for any hints,

Frode

  • waedi
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Re: Snapshot control via midi over USB

The note on is with full velocity 128 ? It has to.

In Totalmix in the menu Options, enable midi control
Midi input, whatever is your computersystem Midi
Midi output : none

M1-Sequoia, Madiface Pro, Digiface USB, Babyface silver and blue
  • From: Germany, Tuvalu, Poland, Chile
  • Registered: 2021-07-27
  • Posts: 471

Re: Snapshot control via midi over USB

Until now I have not gotten any reaction at all from Totalmix on any of the published note on messages.

If you want any feedback via MIDI from TM, you have to enable Mackie Protocol.
Thus, you need to assign a Midi Output Port.

See p.58 in your Manual:

Mackie Control Options
 Enable Protocol Support. When disabled TM FX will only react on the Control Change commands of chapter 24.5.

wadi, maybe you was wrong? Or i misunderstood sth?

“Do It For Her”
My Gear: Bontempi Magic light Keyboard

4 Reply by waedi (edited by waedi 2024-01-24 02:04:42)

  • waedi
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Re: Snapshot control via midi over USB

I don't know, may be a bug or issue in Totalmix.
I took this from the user manual :

Fortunately a Mackie Control compatible controller is not
required to control these buttons, as they are steered by simple Note On/Off commands on
MIDI channel 1.

With buttons I understand also snapshot buttons and the list provides Note-On commands for the snapshot buttons.

But I don't get it to work now with the actual TM 1.93
Totalmix does not receive Midi notes or it ignores them.
No reaction at all.
And furthermore if you select a Midi output, Totalmix is sending a Midi Note-On command repeatedly like crazy !
Setting the Midi output to none stops this.
This is the monitored Midi produced by Totalmix :
https://i.ibb.co/mTs1nPy/Bildschirmfoto-2024-01-24-um-01-20-15.png
Total Reset didn't help.

M1-Sequoia, Madiface Pro, Digiface USB, Babyface silver and blue
  • From: Germany, Tuvalu, Poland, Chile
  • Registered: 2021-07-27
  • Posts: 471

Re: Snapshot control via midi over USB

thats exactly the detail, i was confused as you some time ago...

Fortunately a Mackie Control compatible controller is not required to control these buttons, as they are steered by simple Note On/Off commands on
MIDI channel 1.

With buttons I understand also snapshot buttons and the list provides Note-On commands for the snapshot buttons.

I understood this exactly as you as this is in the "MIDI Control" chapter. I ran into the same confusion longer time ago...
So, its either documented not clearly, or wrong, or TM has really a bug.
This behaviour is the same at least from TM 1.78. and up...

"Mackie Control compatible controller is not required" is generally true ("real" Mackie Hardware Controller not needed). But maybe RME meant this like this? Thats just how i interpreted this for me:

Fortunately a Mackie Control compatible controller is not required to control these buttons, as they are steered by simple Note On/Off commands on MIDI channel 1. But in TM under Mackie Control Options, "Enable Protocol Support" has to be checked if you want to use the Note On/Off commands via MIDI. While the CC commands do not need this.

But I don't get it to work now with the actual TM 1.93
Totalmix does not receive Midi notes or it ignores them.
No reaction at all.

You had not checked Mackie Protocol Enabled in this scenario?
If Yes, same here - No Mackie Protocol Enabled in TM - no Note Messeges either accepted or tranceived.

And furthermore if you select a Midi output, Totalmix is sending a Midi Note-On command repeatedly like crazy !
Setting the Midi output to none stops this.

You had checked Mackie Protocol Enabled in this scenario, right?
Its the Midi Loopback Detection. From Manual:

The Mackie Control protocol requires feedback of the received commands, back to the hardware
controller. So usually TotalMix will be set up with both a MIDI input and MIDI output. Unfortunately
any small error in wiring and setup will cause a MIDI feedback loop here, which then completely
blocks the computer (the CPU).
To prevent the computer from freezing, TotalMix sends a special MIDI note every 0.5 seconds to
its MIDI output. As soon as it detects this special note at the input, the MIDI functionality is disa-
bled. After fixing the loopback, check Enable MIDI Control under Options to reactivate the To-
talMix MIDI.

Same here too (look, the messages are sent in 0.5 ms intervals):

20:46:43.401    From IAC Bus1     Note On    16    G9    90
20:46:43.416    To IAC Bus1       Note On    16    G9    90
20:46:44.220    From IAC Bus1     Note On    16    G9    90
20:46:44.232    To IAC Bus1       Note On    16    G9    90
20:46:45.042    From IAC Bus1     Note On    16    G9    90
20:46:45.056    To IAC Bus1       Note On    16    G9    90
20:46:45.864    From IAC Bus1     Note On    16    G9    90
20:46:45.864    To IAC Bus1       Note On    16    G9    90
20:46:46.681    From IAC Bus1     Note On    16    G9    90

Afaik, IAC Busses are behaving like an MIDI THRU enabled device.
But... what i dont understand: TM should disable the MIDI Functionality in this case. But it doesnt...?

And I remember, I had situations, where TM disabled it - i used the units hardware port with a real synth and activated midi thru accidentally.

“Do It For Her”
My Gear: Bontempi Magic light Keyboard
  • waedi
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Re: Snapshot control via midi over USB

I tested with Mackie protocol On and Off, no success no reaction on snapshots.
The Midi code on channel 16 is generated by TM for sure.
whats the purpose ?
To me it's a bug. It's not even an issue as it stays in the background, only discovered by reading Midi-monitor.
A mystery of Totalmix-Magic

M1-Sequoia, Madiface Pro, Digiface USB, Babyface silver and blue
  • From: Germany, Tuvalu, Poland, Chile
  • Registered: 2021-07-27
  • Posts: 471

Re: Snapshot control via midi over USB

Strange. But very interesting...

In my case (v.1.93 atm)  the snapshots work (sure - only if Mackie protocol is on).

Du you use different IAC busses for IN and OUT.

In my case
IAC Bus1 mapped as IN in TM
IAC Bus2 mapped as OUT in TM

I use Pocket MIDI with the (Views -> Keyboard) just now to test.
In PM settings: MIDI OUT goes to IAC Bus1 and and Midi IN to IAC Bus2.

----

The Midi code on channel 16 is generated by TM for sure.
whats the purpose ?

I think its the TM midi loopback detection. As Mackie Protocol sends a lot of sysex stuff - and TM the same (every touch in generates them)... and if it would send and receive its own messages, it would lead to a unlimited loop...

afaik the official MIDI Standard implemented Active Sensing Messages and things like "ALL Notes Off" for these situations...
But I am not a RME expert. For me it seems TM behaves really strange in certain MIDI situations. But till now i could not really exactly get all detiails to say its a bug. Although it seems that you are right.

“Do It For Her”
My Gear: Bontempi Magic light Keyboard

8 Reply by waedi (edited by waedi 2024-01-25 00:28:22)

  • waedi
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Re: Snapshot control via midi over USB

I found out to stop the Midi output in Totalmix, enable Mackie protocol AND enable extender to any of the numbers there.
When Extender is not enabled Totalmix is spitting out a lot of Midi for ghost.

But snapshot are working now. The extender has to be off.

M1-Sequoia, Madiface Pro, Digiface USB, Babyface silver and blue