1 (edited by fulano 2024-02-03 15:44:57)

Topic: I bought an original Babyface in 2013 and I'm looking to upgrade!

Hello,

I bought an original Babyface 11 years ago (in 2013) and I'm finally looking to upgrade! I'm torn between upgrading to the Babyface Pro FS, or getting the RME ADI-2 Pro FS R (and connecting it to my original babyface).

I could afford either but if the differences in quality of headphone amps and AD/DA converters between the BBF Pro FS and ADI-2 Pro are minimal, then I would rather get the BBF Pro FS for its smaller footprint.  However if the headphone amp and converters of the RME ADI-2 are significantly better than the ones on the Babyface Pro FS, then I would rather get the ADI-2, and then connect that to my original Babyface via toslink.

Are the internal parts of the BBF Pro FS the same or almost the same to the ADI-2 Pro, thus, making the quality of headphone amp and converters very similar?

A final question: would I be noticing a significant jump in sound quality/headphone amp by upgrading from my original babyface to either product?

Note:  I just bought Audeze MM-500 headphones and would like a headphone amp that makes them sound as best as they could, but considering what I stated above. My room is fully treated and I have some nice monitors. I use my setup to mix and master my own music.  I also own an an external preamp (Great River ME-1NV) which I use to record audio.

Any help is appreciated!

2 (edited by ramses 2024-02-03 16:46:09)

Re: I bought an original Babyface in 2013 and I'm looking to upgrade!

Best is a combination of recording interface and reference converter if your use cases justify such a purchase.

Two of my blog articles could be interesting for you to decision:

a) how to integrate these reference converters into your setup.
https://www.tonstudio-forum.de/blog/Ent … our-Setup/

b) check whether an ADI-2 DAC FS would be sufficient for you, or if you might need the ADI-2 Pro FS R BE:
https://www.tonstudio-forum.de/blog/Ent … her-EN-DE/

If you have a turntable, you could also think of getting the ADI-2/4 Pro SE with integrated phono input and RIAA decoding.

Regarding the quality of headphone outputs, best try it out yourself using your ears and equipment.

Your current BBF in combination with ADI-2 Pro FS could already be a winning team for you.

An alternative to a BBF Pro FS would be the purchase of an UCX II, which has already stronger headphone outputs compared to your old BBF.

You could contact your seller, order e.g. UCX II and ADI-2 Pro FS and then make your own conclusions whether UCX II is sufficient, or whether the sound and feature set of ADI-2 Pro FS pleases you more. Then it is all based on your experience, and you can safely do the purchase based on that or send something back.

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub14

3 (edited by fulano 2024-02-04 00:09:25)

Re: I bought an original Babyface in 2013 and I'm looking to upgrade!

thank you for your response. the UCX II seems a bit overkill for my needs, as I don't really record more than 2 channels at a time.  But it would be a smaller footprint than a BBF and an ADI-2, and so I'm open to it, as I like to have a clean desk.

Am i right in thinking that the BBF Pro FS and ADI-2  and UCX II have minimal differences between them in terms of sound quality and headphone amp quality?

Is the ADI-2 more geared towards audiophiles and less toward music producers/mixing/mastering engineers?

4 (edited by ramses 2024-02-04 12:17:03)

Re: I bought an original Babyface in 2013 and I'm looking to upgrade!

fulano wrote:

thank you for your response. the UCX II seems a bit overkill for my needs, as I don't really record more than 2 channels at a time.  But it would be a smaller footprint than a BBF and an ADI-2, and so I'm open to it, as I like to have a clean desk.

But an UCX II could be more useful, if you want TM FX and if you want to avoid a combination recording interface
and ADI-2 reference converter.

In contrast to the BBF Pro FS, the UCX II has already more powerful headphone outputs, as the device is not designed to operate with limited USB bus power.

If Crossfeed should be of interest to you: UCX II will also get it, see here: https://forum.rme-audio.de/viewtopic.php?id=38691. BBF Pro FS wouldn't have the needed resources free for an implementation.

fulano wrote:

Am i right in thinking that the BBF Pro FS and ADI-2  and UCX II have minimal differences between them in terms of sound quality and headphone amp quality?

All RME headphone outputs are of good quality, but they differ in technical specs, power, and features.
Sound differences will most likely be only subtle, and it will also depend on the headphones that you connect.

If you own high-impedance headphones now or in the future, it could quickly become the case that the headphone outputs of a BBF Pro FS are not powerful enough. The BBF Pro FS is designed to work with (limited) USB bus power. Check the manuals, technical section. There you can see that it can only deliver a certain power.

The headphone outputs of the UCX II have already more power like the flagship interfaces.

ADI-2 DAC/Pro have even so called "extreme power" outputs which you need to drive headphones with high impedance.
See also this RME video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=15Zyuo-cOIk

If you're thinking long-term and want to play it safe, it's best to go straight for the ADI-2 DAC/Pro.

Besides that, you can all the additional features of an ADI-2 DAC/Pro (auto ref level, dynamic loudness, PEQ, remote, slow ramp-up of volume on channel change, …).

fulano wrote:

Is the ADI-2 more geared towards audiophiles and less toward music producers/mixing/mastering engineers?

If you have read the blog article about the ADI-2 Series of devices closely, then you should be able to answer your question yourself. So you either only browsed quickly over it or you skipped relevant information. Regarding your remaining questions ...

In the 1st chapter I summarized the model history of these reference converters which started with the ADI-2 Pro.
In short: the ADI-2 DAC has the same "sonic" quality, but has been optimized for the demands of HiFi users to be able to stay under €1000 (at that time).

The ADI-2 DAC has less I/O, fewer features (no SRC, no balanced phones, one D/A converter less) and the ref levels are more fine-tuned to the demand of HiFi users. But this has nothing to do with less sonic quality, only what the typical signal strength is, that HiFi devices support on their analogue inputs.

Did you watch this video? Mastering Converter Shoot-out with the ADI-2 Pro FS:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=doHG32aXBDY

Do you know what the other (purely A/D converter) costs to which the ADI-2 Pro (1st version of the ADI-2 Pro FS) is being compared? Lavry Gold 122, Crane Song Hedd, both rounded €5000.
As a side note … after watching the videos, you can download the original wave files and listen to it lossless:
https://www.rme-audio.de/downloads/Eins … amples.zip

Any remaining questions or doubts, whether ADI-2 * are fully fledged studio products?

For a comparison of recording interfaces

I think you can work very well with all RME devices. They follow the paradigm of transparent high-quality conversion.
Better look for I/O and features.

See my comparison Excel here: https://forum.rme-audio.de/viewtopic.php?id=35156

To sum up

As you have a BBF already, I would propose a combination of your BBF and ADI-2 DAC or Pro FS connection via ADAT.

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub14

5 (edited by fulano 2024-02-05 16:01:59)

Re: I bought an original Babyface in 2013 and I'm looking to upgrade!

thanks for the info!

Would you say that the headphone amp of the UCX II is on par with that of the ADI-2 ?

I guess my main concern is for the headphone amp to make my Audeze MM-500 headphones sound their best.

Re: I bought an original Babyface in 2013 and I'm looking to upgrade!

My choice would be the babyface pro fs. I have one. They drive my sennheiser HD600 fine. If you can buy with the option to return that would be safest (or try somewhere)

Vincent, Amsterdam
https://soundcloud.com/thesecretworld
BFpro fs, 2X HDSP9652 ADI-8AE, 2X HDSP9632

Re: I bought an original Babyface in 2013 and I'm looking to upgrade!

vinark wrote:

My choice would be the babyface pro fs. I have one. They drive my sennheiser HD600 fine. If you can buy with the option to return that would be safest (or try somewhere)

Thanks for your response! I've new to the world of high-end audio equipment but read that you need a good headphone amp so that headphones will sound their best. I recently got the Audeze MM-500 headphones and through the headphone amp on the Babyface (original version),  I feel like these headphones sound 'good' but not 'great'. Of course I have nothing to compare it to, but was wondering if ugprading to either the BBF Pro FS or the other RME products if they will make the headphones somehow come alive more. I read on the RME website that the BBF Pro FS uses the same headphone amp technology as the ADI-2, so that might mean it'll be a significant upgrade in quality than my current original BBF.

Perhaps you're right, I just have to try out the different products and send back what doesn't work.

8 (edited by vinark 2024-02-05 20:23:53)

Re: I bought an original Babyface in 2013 and I'm looking to upgrade!

The headphones amp on the baby pro fs is much more powerful. I have a friend with an old Babyface and it is really much weaker and did not really work with same line but not exact same Sennheiser as mine. So my guess, yes guess, is you will be pleased. But it could also be the you don't really like the audeze. Have you ever heard them with another amp?

Vincent, Amsterdam
https://soundcloud.com/thesecretworld
BFpro fs, 2X HDSP9652 ADI-8AE, 2X HDSP9632

Re: I bought an original Babyface in 2013 and I'm looking to upgrade!

vinark wrote:

The headphones amp on the baby pro fs is much more powerful. I have a friend with an old Babyface and it is really much weaker and did not really work with same line but not exact same Sennheiser as mine. So my guess, yes guess, is you will be pleased. But it could also be the you don't really like the audeze. Have you ever heard them with another amp?

Thanks for the reply. I haven't heard the Audeze with any other amp.  I do like the sound of the Audeze, but I feel like it can sound better through a better amp.

Re: I bought an original Babyface in 2013 and I'm looking to upgrade!

To be honest, my hd600 which are not easy to drive, sound identical on every amp I tried. Even on my mobile. It just goes a little less loud. A lot of it is audiophile neurosis. I am not saying there are no small differences, just that it is to small to be of real consequense. If your Babyface now has enough volume, you might as well stick with it.

Vincent, Amsterdam
https://soundcloud.com/thesecretworld
BFpro fs, 2X HDSP9652 ADI-8AE, 2X HDSP9632