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RME User Forum → ADI-2 & 2/4 Pro series, ADI-2 DAC series → How ADI-2 Pro FS R BE can still use AK4493 if they're not available?
Hi.
Considering ADI-2 Pro FS R BE and want to clarify something about the DAC chip.
If AK4493 is not manufactured anymore after the factory fire 3 years ago, how ADI-2 Pro FS R BE can still use it?
Do you have a stash of them in a warehouse or specs on the website not up to date?
Thanks.
From https://forum.rme-audio.de/viewtopic.ph … 22#p173122 , 2021-07-10 10:14:14
puddingoreo wrote:Will there be ESS version of PRO, or PRO would stay AKM ?
The ADI-2 Pro FS R BE will not change to ESS. We have enough AKM chips in stock for these units for some time.
The warehouse seems to have been sufficiently filled for more than 3 years.
My guess is, the ADI-2 Pro will finally be replaced by the ADI-2/4 Pro SE.
The models are too similar to longterm justify offering both.
But who knows, my glass-ball isn‘t clearer than anybody else’s.
My guess is, the ADI-2 Pro will finally be replaced by the ADI-2/4 Pro SE.
The models are too similar to longterm justify offering both.
But who knows, my glass-ball isn‘t clearer than anybody else’s.
Hi Kai, if you don't currently own and don't plan to own a turntable... what benefit is the ADI-2/4 Pro over the ADI-2 Pro, if any?
Thank you for your advice.
RME products features comparison list made by forum member ramses :
https://www.tonstudio-forum.de/attachme … 1-12-xlsx/
RME products features comparison list made by forum member ramses :
https://www.tonstudio-forum.de/attachme … 1-12-xlsx/
That's a handy spreadsheet. If it was meant for me - Thank You for sharing. Unfortunately, I don't see either the ADI-2 Pro or ADI-2/4 Pro listed.
My guess is, the ADI-2 Pro will finally be replaced by the ADI-2/4 Pro SE.
The models are too similar to longterm justify offering both.
Yes, but this will only work if RME will significantly reduce the price (by ~700€) of the ADI-2/4 Pro SE.
This device has a real ROI issue in the existing ADI-2 line-up!
... what benefit is the ADI-2/4 Pro over the ADI-2 Pro, if any?
...
A second pair of independent line outputs at he back side and a Pentaconn headphone output at he front. Kai has already written about the differences at https://forum.rme-audio.de/viewtopic.ph … 47#p198547 .
Hi Kai, if you don't currently own and don't plan to own a turntable... what benefit is the ADI-2/4 Pro over the ADI-2 Pro, if any.
Improvements of ADI-2/4 Pro SE over ADI-2 Pro:
• A few dB better specs here and there, albeit all ADI-2’s are already far beyond good and bad.
• Balanced headphones now use DAC channels 3/4 only (Pro needs to occupy 1/2 + 3/4) and the rear outputs can still output an independent signal via DAC 1/2.
• Single standard 4.4 mm Pentaconn for balanced headphones, instead of proprietary 2xTRS balanced solution.
• Headphone amplifiers including IEM power setting and super low noise 4.4 mm Pentaconn balanced connection.
• Headphones outs now have a little more power, 4 W max. balanced.
• Balanced line out Rear TRSs now can be assigned to channels 3/4, for an independent 2nd line output.
• Trigger Out socket provides a 12 V switching signal via 3.5 mm mono jack plug, which can be used e.g. to switch power amps with Trigger In on and off together with the ADI-2/4 Pro.
• 5 (DAC/PRO: 4) reference levels, which keeps SNR/DR high over an even longer range. This makes the feature Auto Ref Level even more useful.
• The new Power Supply (ATS040T-P120) now has a 3-prong-connector that includes safety ground in a “soft-ground” configuration.
The safety ground isn’t connected directly to ADI-2/4 Pro SE, but through a 1 kOhm resistor.
This avoids stray current related hum that can appear in few certain use-cases, but avoids possible ground loop related hum from a fully grounded 3-prong mains PSU.
• DAC-chips changed from AKM to ESS.
According to my extensive, level matched blind A/B comparison, both sound the same IF SAME SHAPED DA-FILTERS ARE USED.
Albeit, most same-named DA-Filters have different shapes between AKM and ESS, ONLY IN CASE USING THESE both chips sound different.
The filters are well documented in each model’s manual.
“Sharp” sounds the same, the others are different.
The audible difference only occurs with sample rates of 44.1 and 48 kHz.
With SRs above the filters are out of the audible range.
• Vinyl turntable input consisting of:
Analog Preamp, AD Converter, digital RIAA EQ.
Directly compatible with MM- and high-output MC-pickups.
With additional MC step up transformer compatible with low output MC-pickups.
ADI-2/4 Pro SE’s digital RIAA configuration, built in DSP hardware, is unique:
Preamplification -> AD Conversion -> digital RIAA EQ - has, opposed to the typical solution of analog RIAA filtering, the objective advantage of completely abandoning the filter capacitors from the signal path.
Every capacitor in the world, even the most expensive ones, adds nonlinear distortions to the signal, an objective, measurable fact.
Using capacitors as filters is the worst case application in this regard.
ADI-2/4 Pro SE’s digital RIAA concept elegantly circumvents this.
Personally I’ve come back to listen to my vinyl collection after a long time of abstinence , since I got my ADI-2 Pro SE,
I’m using a Dynavector DV Karat 17 D2 MK2 MC-pickup with an Ortofon T-30 stepup transformer.
Old vinyls, made in the pre-digital era, have a different and often favorable sound, because they have been recorded different, in multiple ways.
If you’re out for something special…
jmimac351 wrote:Hi Kai, if you don't currently own and don't plan to own a turntable... what benefit is the ADI-2/4 Pro over the ADI-2 Pro, if any.
Improvements of ADI-2/4 Pro SE over ADI-2 Pro:
• Trigger Out socket provides a 12 V switching signal via 3.5 mm mono jack plug, which can be used e.g. to switch power amps with Trigger In on and off together with the ADI-2/4 Pro.
• The new Power Supply (ATS040T-P120) now has a 3-prong-connector that includes safety ground in a “soft-ground” configuration.
The safety ground isn’t connected directly to ADI-2/4 Pro SE, but through a 1 kOhm resistor.
This avoids stray current related hum that can appear in few certain use-cases, but avoids possible ground loop related hum from a fully grounded 3-prong mains PSU.• DAC-chips changed from AKM to ESS.
According to my extensive, level matched blind A/B comparison, both sound the same IF SAME SHAPED DA-FILTERS ARE USED.
Albeit, most same-named DA-Filters have different shapes between AKM and ESS, ONLY IN CASE USING THESE both chips sound different.
The filters are well documented in each model’s manual.
“Sharp” sounds the same, the others are different.
The audible difference only occurs with sample rates of 44.1 and 48 kHz.
With SRs above the filters are out of the audible range.
Thank You. I have no use for RIAA / Headphones... but the power supply tweak would be of interest!
As for the DAC chip / filters... I have found the "SLOW" filter to be very nice. I agree with you about the filters.
I have a few other AKM DACs, some "Multibit" DACs, and an ESS based DAC that I am playing with right now...
RME ADI-2 DAC FS (AKM4493)
TEAC UD-505 AIO (AKM4497)
Schiit Audio Modius (AKM4493)
Schiit Audio Yggradrasil+ GS2 (Multibit)
Schiit Modi (Multibit)
Schiit Bifrost 2/64 (Multibit)
Ayre Acoustics QB-9 Twenty (ES9038Q2M)
Yes, I have 7 DACs under the roof and I'm running thru all of them. Previously I also owned a Border Patrol DAC SE. What I have learned is this:
They All Sound Good
What am I coming to conclude?
#1 I am glad I am going to this effort / expense. I've bought almost all of the equipment used, and bought well. The one new piece is still in the return window. Still, it takes effort to acquire and then move along to a new home.
#2 Basing "sound decisions" on stuff you read on the internet is risky. People have different gear, tastes, judgment, opinions... and perhaps more importantly - Hidden Agendas. Especially if there are financial considerations tied to "Audio Reviews", which is often the case. If you can... listen for yourself, and be honest with yourself about whether something really IS better - regardless of what others think, who made it, or what it cost.
#3 Be open to experiencing new things and do not dig your heels in on DACs. When / if something "better" comes along... have a listen. If you like it and want it, buy it.
#4 My opinion... anyone comparing 2 DACs based on aural memory, and not listening in real time... I am suspect of that. That's not my experience. "Trust, but Verify"
#5 I'm certain the RME "ESS DACs" sound great as well, but that's not what people are hung up on. My Ayre QB-9 Twenty sounds great with its ESS chip.
#6 Since I think all of these DACs sound good... the User Experience and the Flexibility of these units is the real differentiator.
But, perhaps my gear "isn't good enough to hear the difference"?
Well, I'm running Ayre KX-5 Twenty Preamp / Ayre VX-5 Twenty Amp / Equi=Tech Model 1.5Q Balanced Power. I'm just using the "DAC as a DAC", so the RME and TEAC are just as a "DAC". Speakers are Wilson Audio Duette with custom crossovers. The issues in the speaker have been fixed and they are INCREDIBLE. They are now a coherent, balanced 2-way speaker that play BIG. So, I think my gear is good enough. Besides, it's what matters to ME that is important. What matters to "You" is most important, for you. As it should be.
If curious about the speakers... see here. I'm the owner and visiting Texas next week to see about Open Baffle setups:
https://youtu.be/o_PJzPBCaOY?si=ArTPizswDMVoIpXN
So, all of these DACS are of widely varying price points, makes, etc. and if I'm coming to conclude that Features and User Experience are #1... well:
The RME ADI stuff wins - FOR ME
Some would suggest the RME is complicated. Yes - but I'll take "complicated" and Feature Rich over "Lacking Features". I'll learn how to use it, and frankly, I've found that challenge to be part of the fun. TIP: The RME Remote is EXCELLENT! If you are not using the RME Remote... stop dragging your feet and download / set it up now. It completely changes the experience, for the better! It's great on iPad and works great on my MacBook as well. If only I could control it via Bluetooth... but life is hard. 
. Besides, Amazon sells 15' USB cables.
Now, my reason for looking at the the ADI-2 Pro is for Digital Out. Why do I "need" Digital Out if I also say that the DACs all sound good? Well, I also know myself... so, when I get an itch to try some other "flavor of the month", or if something NewI comes along in digital, I can do that. I can plug it right into the system I already know well. Plus, I can do that while tweaking with PEQ and going direct into my amp. (Making sure I can do this is the last box for me to check off. I think I understand the manual clearly enough on this Use Case).
Some suggest ADI-2/4 Pro for RIAA flexibility and Headphones. I use neither and that is nowhere on the horizon. I'll very likely opt for ADI-2 Pro for "Digital Flexibility", as that is where my interests lie and my listening habits are very clearly defined. In the meantime, I'll just have to "make do" with my great little ADI-2 DAC FS.
Well, that's my current recipe for Fun. Others may have a different recipe.
Don't stress out over DAC chips... I now no longer do that. Now, I am all about "Features / Utility / Flexibility"...and Speakers.
jmimac351 wrote:... what benefit is the ADI-2/4 Pro over the ADI-2 Pro, if any?
...A second pair of independent line outputs at he back side and a Pentaconn headphone output at he front. Kai has already written about the differences at https://forum.rme-audio.de/viewtopic.ph … 47#p198547 .
Thank you.
jmimac351 wrote:Hi Kai, if you don't currently own and don't plan to own a turntable... what benefit is the ADI-2/4 Pro over the ADI-2 Pro, if any.
Improvements of ADI-2/4 Pro SE over ADI-2 Pro:
• A few dB better specs here and there, albeit all ADI-2’s are already far beyond good and bad.
• Balanced headphones now use DAC channels 3/4 only (Pro needs to occupy 1/2 + 3/4) and the rear outputs can still output an independent signal via DAC 1/2.
• Single standard 4.4 mm Pentaconn for balanced headphones, instead of proprietary 2xTRS balanced solution.
• Headphone amplifiers including IEM power setting and super low noise 4.4 mm Pentaconn balanced connection.
• Headphones outs now have a little more power, 4 W max. balanced.
• Balanced line out Rear TRSs now can be assigned to channels 3/4, for an independent 2nd line output.
• Trigger Out socket provides a 12 V switching signal via 3.5 mm mono jack plug, which can be used e.g. to switch power amps with Trigger In on and off together with the ADI-2/4 Pro.
• The new Power Supply (ATS040T-P120) now has a 3-prong-connector that includes safety ground in a “soft-ground” configuration.
The safety ground isn’t connected directly to ADI-2/4 Pro SE, but through a 1 kOhm resistor.
This avoids stray current related hum that can appear in few certain use-cases, but avoids possible ground loop related hum from a fully grounded 3-prong mains PSU.• DAC-chips changed from AKM to ESS.
According to my extensive, level matched blind A/B comparison, both sound the same IF SAME SHAPED DA-FILTERS ARE USED.
Albeit, most same-named DA-Filters have different shapes between AKM and ESS, ONLY IN CASE USING THESE both chips sound different.
The filters are well documented in each model’s manual.
“Sharp” sounds the same, the others are different.
The audible difference only occurs with sample rates of 44.1 and 48 kHz.
With SRs above the filters are out of the audible range.• Vinyl turntable input consisting of:
Analog Preamp, AD Converter, digital RIAA EQ.
Directly compatible with MM- and high-output MC-pickups.
With additional MC step up transformer compatible with low output MC-pickups.ADI-2/4 Pro SE’s digital RIAA configuration, built in DSP hardware, is unique:
Preamplification -> AD Conversion -> digital RIAA EQ - has, opposed to the typical solution of analog RIAA filtering, the objective advantage of completely abandoning the filter capacitors from the signal path.Every capacitor in the world, even the most expensive ones, adds nonlinear distortions to the signal, an objective, measurable fact.
Using capacitors as filters is the worst case application in this regard.ADI-2/4 Pro SE’s digital RIAA concept elegantly circumvents this.
Personally I’ve come back to listen to my vinyl collection after a long time of abstinence , since I got my ADI-2 Pro SE,
I’m using a Dynavector DV Karat 17 D2 MK2 MC-pickup with an Ortofon T-30 stepup transformer.Old vinyls, made in the pre-digital era, have a different and often favorable sound, because they have been recorded different, in multiple ways.
If you’re out for something special…
Thanks KaiS for the list. A few things I could use well for finalizing my model comparison, see below.
There is one thing missing, that I didn't see in the list:
The unit has now 5 (DAC/PRO: 4) reference levels, which keeps SNR/DR high over an even longer range. This makes the feature Auto Ref Level even more useful.
While we are at it, just updated the model overview here:
https://forum.rme-audio.de/viewtopic.ph … 06#p165706
There is one thing missing, that I didn't see in the list:
The unit has now 5 (DAC/PRO: 4) reference levels, which keeps SNR/DR high over an even longer range. This makes the feature Auto Ref Level even more useful.
I had though about including it (did now), but the extension is just 3 dB in the range, as the level spacing now is different, more evenly.
What are the main differences between the NT-RME-12 and NT-RME-11 power supplies, and is one more appropriate to use than the other for the ADI-2 Pro R BE or ADI-2 DAC FS? Does one have the 1kO resistor and the other doesn't?
I assume the NT-RME-12 is the power supply included with the ADI-2/4 Pro.
Thank you.
Hi.
Considering ADI-2 Pro FS R BE and want to clarify something about the DAC chip.
If AK4493 is not manufactured anymore after the factory fire 3 years ago
The AK4493 is one of the few chips that is still available, now produced in a different factory.
What are the main differences between the NT-RME-12 and NT-RME-11 power supplies? Does one have the 1kO resistor and the other doesn't?
All RME PSUs with IEC socket (3-prong mains cable) do have the resistor.
I assume the NT-RME-12 is the power supply included with the ADI-2/4 Pro.
No. In fact the web listing is wrong and should be updated today. The NT-RME-11 is the 40 watts ps for the ADI-2/4 Pro SE.
jmimac351 wrote:What are the main differences between the NT-RME-12 and NT-RME-11 power supplies? Does one have the 1kO resistor and the other doesn't?
All RME PSUs with IEC socket (3-prong mains cable) do have the resistor.
jmimac351 wrote:I assume the NT-RME-12 is the power supply included with the ADI-2/4 Pro.
No. In fact the web listing is wrong and should be updated today. The NT-RME-11 is the 40 watts ps for the ADI-2/4 Pro SE.
Good to know, thank you for clarifying.
The valid question
If AK4493 is not manufactured anymore after the factory fire 3 years ago, how ADI-2 Pro FS R BE can still use it?
and Mathias' reply
The AK4493 is one of the few chips that is still available, now produced in a different factory.
make me wonder why the RME ADI-2/4 Pro SE doesn't use the AK4493 as well, then.
While I understand that there has been the necessity to fill the gap with the ESS ES9038Q2M for the cheaper ADI-2 DAC due to the probably higher demand and thus number of sold units, I wonder why RME didn't stick to the AKM for the most expensive (and thus lowest sales I guess) ADI-2 in the product line.
@MC: In general, the consensus seems to be that the chips from AKM and ESS are more or less equivalent, with minor pros and cons here and there, outside of the usual hearing ranges anyway. Also however, and correct me if I am wrong, the derivations and quirks of the ESS chips are a bit more prominent and RME had to work around some of ESS' disadvantages*.
* referring your comment at https://www.audiosciencereview.com/foru … st-1234227 as well as the lower headroom for intersample peaks compared to AKM.
My very subjective impression is, that overall, the AKM chips are technically slightly better, ESS obviously hadn't been RME's first choice, but then turned out to be a decent equivalent nonetheless and now there's that. Getting close?
Given AKM's renewed availability meanwhile, it would be interesting to know why RME continues to use ESS chips. Is it that the design already has been adjusted and a lot of resources invested and it eventually doesn't matter anyway? However, given that RME doesn't entirely follow a strictly "non-voodoo" approach of its product lines, either (expensive power supply as an option, support for extremely high sample rates which no one really needs, etc.) wouldn't the return to AKM chips have a positive side-effect for RME marketing-wise due to the audiophiles' belief of AKM's superiority, as irrational as it might me?
waedi wrote:RME products features comparison list made by forum member ramses :
https://www.tonstudio-forum.de/attachme … 1-12-xlsx/That's a handy spreadsheet. If it was meant for me - Thank You for sharing. Unfortunately, I don't see either the ADI-2 Pro or ADI-2/4 Pro listed.
Stumbled over this old post, just to clarify.
waedi posted an URL to an old document that doesn't exist anymore.
It's better to share the URLs of the postings which contain the updated links/information.
This is for the reference converters
https://forum.rme-audio.de/viewtopic.php?id=32506
This is for recording interfaces (only), except PCIe cards
https://forum.rme-audio.de/viewtopic.php?id=35156
KaiS wrote:jmimac351 wrote:Hi Kai, if you don't currently own and don't plan to own a turntable... what benefit is the ADI-2/4 Pro over the ADI-2 Pro, if any.
Improvements of ADI-2/4 Pro SE over ADI-2 Pro:
• Trigger Out socket provides a 12 V switching signal via 3.5 mm mono jack plug, which can be used e.g. to switch power amps with Trigger In on and off together with the ADI-2/4 Pro.
• The new Power Supply (ATS040T-P120) now has a 3-prong-connector that includes safety ground in a “soft-ground” configuration.
The safety ground isn’t connected directly to ADI-2/4 Pro SE, but through a 1 kOhm resistor.
This avoids stray current related hum that can appear in few certain use-cases, but avoids possible ground loop related hum from a fully grounded 3-prong mains PSU.• DAC-chips changed from AKM to ESS.
According to my extensive, level matched blind A/B comparison, both sound the same IF SAME SHAPED DA-FILTERS ARE USED.
Albeit, most same-named DA-Filters have different shapes between AKM and ESS, ONLY IN CASE USING THESE both chips sound different.
The filters are well documented in each model’s manual.
“Sharp” sounds the same, the others are different.
The audible difference only occurs with sample rates of 44.1 and 48 kHz.
With SRs above the filters are out of the audible range.Thank You. I have no use for RIAA / Headphones... but the power supply tweak would be of interest!
As for the DAC chip / filters... I have found the "SLOW" filter to be very nice. I agree with you about the filters.
I have a few other AKM DACs, some "Multibit" DACs, and an ESS based DAC that I am playing with right now...
RME ADI-2 DAC FS (AKM4493)
TEAC UD-505 AIO (AKM4497)
Schiit Audio Modius (AKM4493)
Schiit Audio Yggradrasil+ GS2 (Multibit)
Schiit Modi (Multibit)
Schiit Bifrost 2/64 (Multibit)
Ayre Acoustics QB-9 Twenty (ES9038Q2M)
Yes, I have 7 DACs under the roof and I'm running thru all of them. Previously I also owned a Border Patrol DAC SE. What I have learned is this:
They All Sound Good
What am I coming to conclude?
#1 I am glad I am going to this effort / expense. I've bought almost all of the equipment used, and bought well. The one new piece is still in the return window. Still, it takes effort to acquire and then move along to a new home.
#2 Basing "sound decisions" on stuff you read on the internet is risky. People have different gear, tastes, judgment, opinions... and perhaps more importantly - Hidden Agendas. Especially if there are financial considerations tied to "Audio Reviews", which is often the case. If you can... listen for yourself, and be honest with yourself about whether something really IS better - regardless of what others think, who made it, or what it cost.
#3 Be open to experiencing new things and do not dig your heels in on DACs. When / if something "better" comes along... have a listen. If you like it and want it, buy it.
#4 My opinion... anyone comparing 2 DACs based on aural memory, and not listening in real time... I am suspect of that. That's not my experience. "Trust, but Verify"
#5 I'm certain the RME "ESS DACs" sound great as well, but that's not what people are hung up on. My Ayre QB-9 Twenty sounds great with its ESS chip.
#6 Since I think all of these DACs sound good... the User Experience and the Flexibility of these units is the real differentiator.
But, perhaps my gear "isn't good enough to hear the difference"?
Well, I'm running Ayre KX-5 Twenty Preamp / Ayre VX-5 Twenty Amp / Equi=Tech Model 1.5Q Balanced Power. I'm just using the "DAC as a DAC", so the RME and TEAC are just as a "DAC". Speakers are Wilson Audio Duette with custom crossovers. The issues in the speaker have been fixed and they are INCREDIBLE. They are now a coherent, balanced 2-way speaker that play BIG. So, I think my gear is good enough. Besides, it's what matters to ME that is important. What matters to "You" is most important, for you. As it should be.
If curious about the speakers... see here. I'm the owner and visiting Texas next week to see about Open Baffle setups:
https://youtu.be/o_PJzPBCaOY?si=ArTPizswDMVoIpXN
So, all of these DACS are of widely varying price points, makes, etc. and if I'm coming to conclude that Features and User Experience are #1... well:
The RME ADI stuff wins - FOR ME
Some would suggest the RME is complicated. Yes - but I'll take "complicated" and Feature Rich over "Lacking Features". I'll learn how to use it, and frankly, I've found that challenge to be part of the fun. TIP: The RME Remote is EXCELLENT! If you are not using the RME Remote... stop dragging your feet and download / set it up now. It completely changes the experience, for the better! It's great on iPad and works great on my MacBook as well. If only I could control it via Bluetooth... but life is hard.
Now, my reason for looking at the the ADI-2 Pro is for Digital Out. Why do I "need" Digital Out if I also say that the DACs all sound good? Well, I also know myself... so, when I get an itch to try some other "flavor of the month", or if something NewI comes along in digital, I can do that. I can plug it right into the system I already know well. Plus, I can do that while tweaking with PEQ and going direct into my amp. (Making sure I can do this is the last box for me to check off. I think I understand the manual clearly enough on this Use Case).
Some suggest ADI-2/4 Pro for RIAA flexibility and Headphones. I use neither and that is nowhere on the horizon. I'll very likely opt for ADI-2 Pro for "Digital Flexibility", as that is where my interests lie and my listening habits are very clearly defined. In the meantime, I'll just have to "make do" with my great little ADI-2 DAC FS.
Well, that's my current recipe for Fun. Others may have a different recipe.
Don't stress out over DAC chips... I now no longer do that. Now, I am all about "Features / Utility / Flexibility"...and Speakers.
Haven't you been interested in using RME ADI 2/4 Pro SE as "a digital crossover" for your custom 2-way stereo setup, so that each channel of power amps is directly connected to each driver unit? (you'll need a 4ch power amp or 2 stereo power amps)
I've always thinking that passive analog crossovers would be the culprit between power amp and driver unit, and separation of frequency spectrum must be done before the amping, not after. But since I could not afford a custom speaker set like yours to test my thought, I settled in active monitors that have class AB amp directly connected to driver unit.
RME User Forum → ADI-2 & 2/4 Pro series, ADI-2 DAC series → How ADI-2 Pro FS R BE can still use AK4493 if they're not available?
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