• Registered: 2024-03-17
  • Posts: 5

Topic: Madiface Pro - Using TotalMix FX To Record Any Sound In Windows To DAW

I apologize if this has been addressed previously.

I understand how to use an internal software mixer application like VB-Cable w/ an ASIO4All driver, but I do not want to use this solution, primarily because I don't trust ASIO4All in live performance situations.

My DAW is Ableton Live.

This seems like a simple use case, but I cannot figure out a way w/o the above software "submix" apps.

I want to simply use TotalMix FX to route any sound I hear on my computer into my DAW for further manipulation.

Is there a way to do this w/o the above additional apps? Is loopback functionality the right road to travel down?

I don't understand what the additional software playback channels are good for, if I cannot route them back to an "input" of some kind. I see they can be routed to separate hardware outputs. So I could set this up if I had a hardware mixer, but I do not want to use one (unless that is the only way).

I have a MADIFace Pro, and am using the ASIO driver in Ableton Live in Win 10. I can make any hardware or software I/O available to do this.

Thank you.

/e

2 Reply by waedi (edited by waedi 2024-03-17 05:30:52)

  • waedi
  • DAW Mastermind
  • Offline
  • From: Swiss Zürich
  • Registered: 2020-12-08
  • Posts: 4,525

Re: Madiface Pro - Using TotalMix FX To Record Any Sound In Windows To DAW

Yes you have to use Loopback in Totalmix and delete this ASIO4all straight away..
Loopback sits inside the Hardware Output channels, open it with the wrenchtool button.

The software playback channels are all channels possible to send audio from the computer to the interface.

Let's make it step by step.
You can see your computer audio in playback channel 1/2, right ?
Let's use an unused Madi channel for the Loopback.
Click onto Madi 2/3 Output channel, it gets highlighted.
Pull up the fader of the playback channel with your computer audio.
Open the output channel with the wrench tool button and hit Loopback.
In Ableton see Input channel 5/6 there is your computersignal ready for recording or sending thru plugins.

M1-Sequoia, Madiface Pro, Digiface USB, Babyface silver and blue
  • Registered: 2024-03-17
  • Posts: 5

Re: Madiface Pro - Using TotalMix FX To Record Any Sound In Windows To DAW

Appreciate the reply, @waedi - This is in fact a very simple use case that I could have conquered over 3 years ago when I bought the MADIFace Pro.

What in fact occurs is "MADI" Out 1/2 (Hardware Output 1/2), comes back in on External In 5/6, which makes sense, because I suspect External Ins 1/2, 3/4 are reserved for the hardware inputs. If I chose "MADI" Out 3/4 for loopback, signal will come in on 7/8, and so on.

I knew when I purchased this device that I would be addressing a myriad of potential expandability support. I plan on adding a MADI-supporting hardware mixer, or perhaps some type of breakout box for hardware ins, and just use software touchscreens for mixing. If I bought the new UFX III, for example, could I use the MADIFace Pro as a job control for it, and like a Steven Slate Raven to control the faders in TMFX, etc?

Thanks again.

/e

4 Reply by waedi (edited by waedi 2024-03-18 02:24:44)

  • waedi
  • DAW Mastermind
  • Offline
  • From: Swiss Zürich
  • Registered: 2020-12-08
  • Posts: 4,525

Re: Madiface Pro - Using TotalMix FX To Record Any Sound In Windows To DAW

Each interface, UFX lll and Madiface Pro. has it's own Totalmix, there is no combo when connecting Madi.
You can send digital audio signals between those.
You can connect the Madiface Pro to an iPad pro and use the iOS Totalmix on the iPad and it's touchscreen to control the Madiface Pro.
And a second iPad to control the UFXlll.
I doubt it is possible to downgrade this Raven device to a Mackie protocol remote device. Better look out for a computer with a touchscreen that is able to run Totalmix.

M1-Sequoia, Madiface Pro, Digiface USB, Babyface silver and blue
  • ramses
  • DAW Mastermind
  • Offline
  • From: UTC+1
  • Registered: 2012-10-14
  • Posts: 13,183

Re: Madiface Pro - Using TotalMix FX To Record Any Sound In Windows To DAW

If you need to remote control TM FX from another computer, then use TotalMix FX remote.
But do not install TM FX Remote on the computer, where the recording interface is connected to.
Whats also possible with MADI...
Assumed you have an UFX III and several MADI devices (preamps, adda converter).
You can add the MADIFace Pro into the serial chain of MADI devices to add a 2nd computer for monitoring or as backup reccording.

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub14
  • Registered: 2024-03-17
  • Posts: 5

Re: Madiface Pro - Using TotalMix FX To Record Any Sound In Windows To DAW

Thank you, ramses, and waedi ... Greatly appreciate your feedback.

I have little experience w/ digital mixing, but notable experience w/ analog interfaces. Rebuilding a digital mixing setup very slowly, but decided early on that MADI made a lot of sense for expandability.

I have many digital MIDI controllers (currently 8 connected to one instance of Ableton Live), and a serious PC, where I am controlling entirely software driven instrumentation, including a Roland TD50-X and several iterations of Superior Drummer 3 simultaneously. It is a post-production and sound design use case.

I will add to this several pre-amps for signal re-processing, and likely a digital mixer that supports MADI, as it appears the UFX III is not as useful w/ the MADIFace Pro as I was hoping it would be.

Something like:
- soundcraft si expression 1 mixer w/ MADI optical card
- avalon ad2022 preamp
- neve 1073opx preamp
- ua 6176 channel strip
- patch bay
- power conditioner

And the MADI Face pro will control audio macros, along w/ the hardware mixer for IO and routing of external devices.

Does this sound reasonable?

7 Reply by ramses (edited by ramses 2024-03-21 18:47:17)

  • ramses
  • DAW Mastermind
  • Offline
  • From: UTC+1
  • Registered: 2012-10-14
  • Posts: 13,183

Re: Madiface Pro - Using TotalMix FX To Record Any Sound In Windows To DAW

Sorry, no time currently to answer your last questions in particular, but maybe you are also interested in some useful information about MADI:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fT79S0-Jpjw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LWGVoxiIRIA

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub14

8 Reply by waedi (edited by waedi 2024-03-22 00:28:52)

  • waedi
  • DAW Mastermind
  • Offline
  • From: Swiss Zürich
  • Registered: 2020-12-08
  • Posts: 4,525

Re: Madiface Pro - Using TotalMix FX To Record Any Sound In Windows To DAW

evolvetek wrote:

Thank you, ramses, and waedi ... Greatly appreciate your feedback.

I have little experience w/ digital mixing, but notable experience w/ analog interfaces. Rebuilding a digital mixing setup very slowly, but decided early on that MADI made a lot of sense for expandability.

I have many digital MIDI controllers (currently 8 connected to one instance of Ableton Live), and a serious PC, where I am controlling entirely software driven instrumentation, including a Roland TD50-X and several iterations of Superior Drummer 3 simultaneously. It is a post-production and sound design use case.

I will add to this several pre-amps for signal re-processing, and likely a digital mixer that supports MADI, as it appears the UFX III is not as useful w/ the MADIFace Pro as I was hoping it would be.

Something like:
- soundcraft si expression 1 mixer w/ MADI optical card
- avalon ad2022 preamp
- neve 1073opx preamp
- ua 6176 channel strip
- patch bay
- power conditioner

And the MADI Face pro will control audio macros, along w/ the hardware mixer for IO and routing of external devices.

Does this sound reasonable?

What is "audio macros" ?
As you have Madi and want to control everything, why not Preamps with digital control ?
A 12Mic would fit perfectly.
Hardware mixer for routing external devices is personal choice, for me I prefer to do all the routing work from one control room (Totalmix) or the DAW.
Your listed preamps and the channel strip need connections and therefore the hardware mixer is needed, ok.
Big equipment for what it is, a bunch of inputs and outputs.
One unit UFXlll can replace the whole machine park.

That's why my personal answer is: No, it's not reasonable for me.

M1-Sequoia, Madiface Pro, Digiface USB, Babyface silver and blue
  • Registered: 2024-03-17
  • Posts: 5

Re: Madiface Pro - Using TotalMix FX To Record Any Sound In Windows To DAW

waedi wrote:

What is "audio macros" ?
As you have Madi and want to control everything, why not Preamps with digital control ?
A 12Mic would fit perfectly.
Hardware mixer for routing external devices is personal choice, for me I prefer to do all the routing work from one control room (Totalmix) or the DAW.
Your listed preamps and the channel strip need connections and therefore the hardware mixer is needed, ok.
Big equipment for what it is, a bunch of inputs and outputs.
One unit UFXlll can replace the whole machine park.

That's why my personal answer is: No, it's not reasonable for me.

Thanks waedi.

Audio macros is a general term for controlling things like fader I/O within TotalMix. I still haven't unpacked all I can do w/ the jog wheel on the MadiFace Pro, but I REALLY like the simplicity of controlling master volume, or anything, for that matter. I'd like to know everything it is capable of and need to do some tutorials and read the manual.

The specific reasoning for the analog pre-amps is because they are analog pre-amps, and are amazing for signal processing. Each of the ones listed have very unique sonic characteristics for I/O of individual and mixed tracks at various stages in the post-production process.

Question: IF I wanted to control the UFX III w/ something like a hardware jog wheel, what would you recommend? Is that possible? Thus my original question about using the MADIFace Pro w/ the UFX. I like the jog wheel, and the quick change of control parameters via buttons. So - someone must make something that is compatible w/ UFX III and TotalMix that would accomplish this?

Thanks again.

/e

  • Registered: 2016-06-14
  • Posts: 1,142

Re: Madiface Pro - Using TotalMix FX To Record Any Sound In Windows To DAW

This?
https://rme-audio.de/arc-usb.html

UCX - FF 400 - Babyface pro - Digiface USB - ADI-2 (original)
Mac mini M1 - Macbook pro - iPad Air2
  • Registered: 2024-03-17
  • Posts: 5

Re: Madiface Pro - Using TotalMix FX To Record Any Sound In Windows To DAW

oli77sch wrote:

This?
https://rme-audio.de/arc-usb.html

Thanks for that. I thought something like this existed. smile