1 (edited by 9Cows 2024-04-01 14:41:09)

Topic: Total Mix questions for Beginner

Hi,

I recently bought an RME BabyFace PRO FS & I am an absolute beginner with mixer interfaces. I have been however going through the manual and videos online, to understand the workings of the Babyface Pro FS.

In one of the trials I was trying to change the names of the inputs, to understand how it works, I ended up changing the names of the AN 1& 2 to AN R & L - just to see. Now the problem is - I have kind of messed it up.

1 - When I see them as mono inputs - it shows as AN R& L
2 - When I see them as stereo inputs it still shows as AN R.

Is there a way to fix it back to AN 1 & 2 (or AN R&L) - so that in stereo it shows again as AN 1/2 (or AN R/L)

**I have already looked through the manual & the Total Mix tutorial videos on RME channel - but I am not sure if this covers it.

A few snapshots for reference.

https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/72jmuag9k07i4lz8tlgt8/Screenshot-2024-04-01-at-6.59.46-PM.png?rlkey=bpptwf7x66pr408ls9dtu4zxe&dl=1
**As mentioned I can see AN 1 & 2 as Mono Inputs.

https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/571ro2z7cae0etlvvzpr0/Screenshot-2024-04-01-at-7.00.31-PM.png?rlkey=j0lnlee1p5qj9todlnubkugir&dl=1
**However as stereo input it doesn't show AN 1/2 instead it shows AN 1.

Please help fixing this. Thank you so much.

2 (edited by ramses 2024-04-01 15:03:03)

Re: Total Mix questions for Beginner

Click to "Names" in the right blue field to see the original channel names. (vs user defined names).
You see most likely a user-defined name, which you can change as you like.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DtaMK97QdnQ

Manual

ch 21.3 The channels -> Channel name
ch 21.5.1 View Options -> Show Names

Related:
ch 21.5.3 View Options -> Channel Layout: Name (user)

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub13

Re: Total Mix questions for Beginner

Oh thank you! I did find that as an option. However, I was wondering if the same can be done with user defined names?

Like I want to name inputs as R/L to connect with my bass guitar preamp - if not then I will work with these.

Re: Total Mix questions for Beginner

Don't get your point. What do you mean by "If not?"

You seem to have understood that you can use user-defined names. Then just name the channels as you need...

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub13

Re: Total Mix questions for Beginner

Thanks @ramses - I should have been more clear.

I just wanted to understand if the same can be done with user defined names - where when you use them in stereo they show up as
Input 1/2 instead of Input 1.

**If that is not possible, then I can work with the existing setup. Considering I do not have too many connected devices, it should be fine. However, I wish the feature was available for user defined names as well. Though I do understand why it won't be as well.

Thank you again!

Re: Total Mix questions for Beginner

You can assign user-defined names to the channels, regardless of whether they are stereo or mono channels. Just do this and see what happens.

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub13

Re: Total Mix questions for Beginner

I did assign channels - both mono & stereo

in mono - when I look at them they show up as the user defined name.

When I see them in stereo, they use the name of Mono Channel 1

when I rename the stereo channel, then the Mono channel 1 becomes that name.

Re: Total Mix questions for Beginner

I'm sorry. Based on your description, I don't understand exactly what you mean.

To understand this, you would need something like a detailed step-by-step guide that you could use to reproduce your exact steps. Even better would be a video in which you demonstrate this.

Renaming the channels works perfectly here; therefore I do not understand what the issue for you is.

The fact that the names may change when you switch the channels from mono to stereo may be true, but you don't have to keep changing them. It's either a mono or a stereo channel and that's it. If the name doesn't fit, just change it.

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub13

Re: Total Mix questions for Beginner

I understand the confusion, hence I couldn't even find it in the manual, nor could I look for it online.

I will try and explain once more, if it doesn't make sense, please ignore me.

1 - In the default naming system, lets say - analog input 1 & 2. When I see them as mono inputs, I see the names as Analog Input 1 & a second separate Analaog input 2.
- when I see them as stereo I see - Analog 1/2 (or AN1/2)

However - In the custom naming scheme -
1 - when I name them lets say - R & L (corresponding to input 1 & 2), I see them as Mono R & L
- when I put them as stereo I see only R as the name of the channel - instead of R/L as in the default naming scheme.

I am not trying to SPAM, just trying to understand. Thank you!

10 (edited by waedi 2024-04-01 17:18:00)

Re: Total Mix questions for Beginner

This could be a feature request for update. Combining two mono channel user names with a slash when stereo.
You may have to accept for the moment how it is.
It is not made for switching Stereo-Mono all the time.

This is a step in your working process that you do once.
Then you give your name to the stereo channel or two names to the two mono channels.

M1-Sonoma, Madiface Pro, Digiface USB, Babyface silver and blue

Re: Total Mix questions for Beginner

I figured as much @waedi, that this feature perhaps doesn't exist. Thanks for taking out the time, for now I will stick to default names & work around those, till I understand the device better as I grow with it.

Thanks everyone.

Re: Total Mix questions for Beginner

I understand what you mean and as it seems, it’s really not possible.
But I really don’t get for what use that option should be there…?
If I have two mono sources and want to give the mono inputs specific names, I don’t need a stereo version and vice versa.
Examples:
- two mono synths on inputs 3 and 4, „Arturia“ and „Korg“ I never would use on the combined stereo input called „Arturia/Korg“
- the stereo main output of a mixer („Mackie“) makes no sense on separate mono inputs (called „Mackie L“ and „Mackie R“).

FF 400 - Babyface pro - Digiface USB - ADI-2 (original)
Mac mini M1 - Macbook pro - iPad Air2

13 (edited by ramses 2024-04-01 18:16:03)

Re: Total Mix questions for Beginner

When changing two mono channels to a stereo channel, it should be obvious that it is impossible to construct a proper custom name for the stereo channel that would make really sense.

1st you may have two mono devices connected to your recording interface.
But if you need e.g., a stereo channel for connecting a stereo keyboard, well, then you need a different custom name anyway.
You also need to honor, that the max. number of characters in this name field is 11, not more.
So you can't simply merge 2×11=22 characters into 11 char of a stereo name.

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub13

Re: Total Mix questions for Beginner

oli77sch wrote:

I understand what you mean and as it seems, it’s really not possible.
But I really don’t get for what use that option should be there…?
If I have two mono sources and want to give the mono inputs specific names, I don’t need a stereo version and vice versa.
Examples:
- two mono synths on inputs 3 and 4, „Arturia“ and „Korg“ I never would use on the combined stereo input called „Arturia/Korg“
- the stereo main output of a mixer („Mackie“) makes no sense on separate mono inputs (called „Mackie L“ and „Mackie R“).

Exactly … you do not toggle between mono and stereo … you have certain devices connected and that's it. All you can do is to store different Workspaces for different setups, but you do not instantly toggle between mono/stereo in one setup.

That's why I asked myself what the question was all about because it has no practical use case.

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub13

Re: Total Mix questions for Beginner

9Cows wrote:

I figured as much @waedi, that this feature perhaps doesn't exist.

Which "feature"?

All you need to do is first to set the channel to stereo, and then rename it as you need, e.g. "Guitar L/R"

Re: Total Mix questions for Beginner

Back with questions - regarding the Total Mix & BabyFace.

I want to use the XLR/Analog Inputs as as DI input for my "DSM Humboldt Simplifier BASS station - preamp cab sim".

Questions -
1 - The input & output volume on the Total mix is extremely low when using the XLR connection, however the same thing on Instrument input is perfectly fine.

2 - The manual says -
"The Babyface Pro has two analog microphone inputs that can operate as line inputs with levels
up to +19 dBu, when set to 0 dB gain and PAD active
. The electronic input stage uses a servo
balanced design which handles unbalanced and balanced signals correctly, automatically adjusting the level reference."

So I have my XLR input at 0 DB gain & pad active, but even then the volume is imperceptible/inaudible, the meters showing the input & output levels in total mix are barely moving. Am I doing something wrong? Or this is how it is supposed to be?
1 - The switch at the bottom of BabyFace is at +4DBU.
2 - I have no problems when I use the Instrument input on the Babyface, everything works "perfectly".

I went through the entire total mix part of the Babyface manual, couldn't find what I was looking for. If anyone is aware, you can also guide me to the page number where this should be covered?

Thank you so much!

17 (edited by waedi 2024-04-04 10:50:06)

Re: Total Mix questions for Beginner

You can try with PAD not active.
A PAD is something like a break, it reduces the signal.

M1-Sonoma, Madiface Pro, Digiface USB, Babyface silver and blue

Re: Total Mix questions for Beginner

When you set
- input to 0dB gain and
- activate PAD
then the input is *most insensitive* to be able to support hot studio signals up to +19 dBu.

The manual of DSM Humboldt Simplifier BASS station claims the output is balanced but doesn't tell anything useful about the maximum output level in dBu @ 0dBFS.

So .. simply assume now, that the BASS station doesn't deliver a hot signal, so you need to raise the sensitivity of the input to get a valid input signal. Deactivate PAD, raise Gain ... you will see the metering in TM FX how much gain is needed to get a suitable level and to not overload the input ....

Regarding the switch at the back of the BBF Pro FS. Its documented in the manual ch 5.1 and also written on the unit itself "XLR output level". This is the switching of reference level for the output volume. This affects the volume of everything into the direction of active monitors. As active monitors are usually very loud, it is most likely that you should set this to +4 to reduce the volume so that it doesn't become too loud if the  output fader is set at or close to 0 dB.

1st of all you should look that you get a proper input signal before thinking about output volume...

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub13

Re: Total Mix questions for Beginner

waedi wrote:

You can try with PAD not active.
A PAD is something like a break, it reduces the signal.

To be more concrete, PAD reduces the input signal by 11 dB.

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub13

Re: Total Mix questions for Beginner

waedi wrote:

You can try with PAD not active.
A PAD is something like a break, it reduces the signal.

Thank you it gets slightly better, but still very low volume. I am working with the instrument input for now, will keep going through the manual to see if I find something that solves this.

Thanks!

Re: Total Mix questions for Beginner

9Cows wrote:
waedi wrote:

You can try with PAD not active.
A PAD is something like a break, it reduces the signal.

Thank you it gets slightly better, but still very low volume. I am working with the instrument input for now, will keep going through the manual to see if I find something that solves this.

Thanks!

AFAIR you also need to raise the gain, did you do this as well?
The Gain knob behind the wrench symbol ...

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub13

22 (edited by waedi 2024-04-04 12:00:07)

Re: Total Mix questions for Beginner

@9cows
Is there a TRS cable inserted in the output ?
Take it out.
That box seems to be pretty complex, probably you did transmit only the input signal from the bass guitar to the XLR output without preamp, like a DI-box.
Or have you used the DI-out and the cabsim-blend is set very low ?

M1-Sonoma, Madiface Pro, Digiface USB, Babyface silver and blue

23 (edited by 9Cows 2024-04-04 12:21:43)

Re: Total Mix questions for Beginner

@waedi
1 - There is no TRS cable in the output.
   - The BabyFace is taking input via XLR from the DSM Preamp
   - The preamp volume is around 75% + Gain is at 50% - the same settings I am using for the instrument input.
   - The cabsim blend is sitting at Full Wet
****I am using the exact same settings for the instrument input - which doesn't have any issues.

2 - While the XLR is being used the instrument input is disconnected - so it is 1 cable at a time.

3 - Guitar output is full.

4 - The Babyface is connected to RME ADI 2 DAC FS - via optical.

I am getting by right now, so it is not a show stopper, but just curious. I will slowly learn and keep fixing issues as I come across. The Boxes are indeed complex - both the DSM & Babyface smile But I am able to make them work for most things. I expected a steep learning curve, so no surprises.

***The only real fear I have is I do not destroy something - hence a bit cautious while using the XLR inputs.

Re: Total Mix questions for Beginner

Not sure why,  but I couldn't see any of your replies earlier @ramses. Strange.

@Ramses -

1 - Increasing the gain worked. The gain knob at about 15 gets me exactly to the point I want to be at. I was having the same issue with the instrument input earlier, but there is a boost function there, which I found in the manual - and that worked fantastic.
2 - I didn't want to work with the Gain knob - as the Manual mentions - "The Babyface Pro has two analog microphone inputs that can operate as line inputs with levels up to +19 dBu, when set to 0 dB gain and PAD active"
 
Thank you so much @ramses & @waedi. I will be posting more questions, if I can't find answers in the manual.

Thank you again for your patience & help.

25 (edited by ramses 2024-04-04 18:36:01)

Re: Total Mix questions for Beginner

> 2 - I didn't want to work with the Gain knob - as the Manual mentions -
> "The Babyface Pro has two analog microphone inputs that can operate as line inputs with levels up to +19 dBu,
> when set to 0 dB gain and PAD active"

All that the manual wants to tell you is, what the maximum input level is and how to achieve it.
But in this case you do not want to configure the inputs to be "most insensitive" to be prepared for high input signals.
You want that a relatively low input signal gets preamplified to a level where the converter work in their optimum working range and to optimize SNR/dynamic. Because a signal which is too low has no volume and thus no dynamic.

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub13

Re: Total Mix questions for Beginner

Hi, back with more questions smile

Is it possible to use an iPad mini as Total Mix Remote for Total Mix FX running on an iPad Pro?



**I am successfully able to run either iPADs as a remote for Total Mix on the Macbook. But I am unable to find any network settings in the Total Mix in iPAD Pro.

27

Re: Total Mix questions for Beginner

There are none, so this won't work.

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME

Re: Total Mix questions for Beginner

MC wrote:

There are none, so this won't work.

Thank you so much - I suspected as much!

29 (edited by 9Cows 2024-04-24 14:04:14)

Re: Total Mix questions for Beginner

Hi Stumped again. I have been trying to make the BabyFace pro FS work in the stand alone mode as per the manual.

1 - So powered using external adapter - using the official adapter supplied by RME for this application.
2 - There is no USB plugged in.
3 - Everything seems to work - I can see the input levels, I can set the output levels, I can choose the inputs & outputs.
However -
There is no sound coming out. When I play my bass guitar, the input levels show the incoming signal, but the output levels do not change.

I have read & re-read the manual page 88-93, I have been trying to make this work for the last 2 days, but the output levels show no LED & hence no sound.

The babyface works perfectly in CC mode or connected to the PC. But not in stand alone mode.

Chain
Guitar -> Preamp DI -> InPUT 1 on Babyface via XLR -> ADI2 DAC FS via Optical.

Help will be appreciated.
Thanks!

Re: Total Mix questions for Beginner

Do you listen with a headphone or are two loudspeakers connected to the DAC ?
In case you only use one loudspeaker, try input 2 at the Babyface.

M1-Sonoma, Madiface Pro, Digiface USB, Babyface silver and blue

Re: Total Mix questions for Beginner

Also -

Missed out the update - If I start the device plugged to an iPad & make the settings as I desire there, remove the cable & then run babyface in stand-alone mode it works, but changing any settings then on the babyface, makes the Output 1/2 light up red, but I am sending nothing on OutPut 1/2, it is going out via Optical Spdif so confused.

Thanks!

32 (edited by 9Cows 2024-04-24 14:45:09)

Re: Total Mix questions for Beginner

waedi wrote:

Do you listen with a headphone or are two loudspeakers connected to the DAC ?
In case you only use one loudspeaker, try input 2 at the Babyface.

ADI 2 DAC FS is connected to Powered Genelec 7040sub + 8030 Monitors. DAC -> 7040Sub -> 8030 Monitors.

Re: Total Mix questions for Beginner

Is the Babyface optical output set to SPDIF or Adat ? Try flip

M1-Sonoma, Madiface Pro, Digiface USB, Babyface silver and blue

34 (edited by 9Cows 2024-04-24 15:53:59)

Re: Total Mix questions for Beginner

It is SPDIF - as of now - I will set it up as ADAT & get back.

EDIT - Same behaviour as earlier.

35 (edited by waedi 2024-04-24 16:04:22)

Re: Total Mix questions for Beginner

You can connect the toslink cable from the out to the in and make a cable-loopback and check if you can see an input signal on the optical input, if the input signal is visible then the DAC may need better setting ?
The DAC is not connected to any USB ?

M1-Sonoma, Madiface Pro, Digiface USB, Babyface silver and blue

36 (edited by 9Cows 2024-04-24 18:51:33)

Re: Total Mix questions for Beginner

Dear Waedi, I do not think the problem is with the DAC, as I can't see any LEDs light up on the output side on Babyface. The output levels I believe should always be displayed via LEDs when the signal is going out?

There is nothing on the Babyface in Stand alone mode. Input signal LED flash as I strum, but nothing on the output side.

Also there is no issues in CC or PC mode, just the Stand alone. I am definitely missing some setting, but not sure where to find it.

37 (edited by oli77sch 2024-04-24 19:34:38)

Re: Total Mix questions for Beginner

9Cows wrote:

… as I can't see any LEDs light up on the output side on Babyface. The output levels I believe should always be displayed via LEDs when the signal is going out? …

Are you sure you have
A) selected the right output channels to display by using the out button
B) to have opened the virtual faders of the used inputs?

Manual p. 92 - Monitoring Mix

FF 400 - Babyface pro - Digiface USB - ADI-2 (original)
Mac mini M1 - Macbook pro - iPad Air2

Re: Total Mix questions for Beginner

Dear Oli,

I have read & re-read pages 88-93. I also only have issues if I start the device in Stand Alone mode. Not if I start it in CC/PC mode & then later pull out the USB cable.

I am selecting Input 1/2 as input - & the LEDs light up when I strum the guitar
I am selecting OPT as output - the LEDs do nothing - they do not flicker at all.

39 (edited by waedi 2024-04-25 07:49:33)

Re: Total Mix questions for Beginner

9Cows wrote:

Dear Oli,

I have read & re-read pages 88-93. I also only have issues if I start the device in Stand Alone mode. Not if I start it in CC/PC mode & then later pull out the USB cable.

Standalone-mode is a own mix it will not take something from CC-mode or from Totalmix, all has to be done on the front and it will remember these settings and this is how to do :

 Use OUT to select the desired output
 Use IN to select the input with the desired signal source
 Push MIX. The input LEDs start to flash.
 Use SELECT to choose between left, right or both input channels
 Turn the big knob to set the actual monitoring/routing level
 Continue with all inputs and outputs as you wish

You porably missed to push the mix button and the exact order ?
First OUT
then IN
then MIX
then SELECT
follow these steps carefully in this particular order and it will work

M1-Sonoma, Madiface Pro, Digiface USB, Babyface silver and blue

40 (edited by 9Cows 2024-04-25 11:26:07)

Re: Total Mix questions for Beginner

Thanks Waedi - it works.

I was not aware that this has to be followed in the very order. Thanks a ton for your help. I was doing, input-vol, output-vol, Mix again & again.

I have a couple of question -
Once I set this up - in the same session without losing power, if I adjust the volume of either input or output do I need to go back & press mix - or now it is of no consequence?

Thanks Again for your help!

Re: Total Mix questions for Beginner

9Cows wrote:

Thanks Waedi - it works.

I was not aware that this has to be followed in the very order. Thanks a ton for your help. I was doing, input-vol, output-vol, Mix again & again.

I have a couple of question -
Once I set this up - in the same session without losing power, if I adjust the volume of either input or output do I need to go back & press mix - or now it is of no consequence?

Thanks Again for your help!

I can't tell for sure but I think you should go thru the whole steps to do any adjustment.

M1-Sonoma, Madiface Pro, Digiface USB, Babyface silver and blue

Re: Total Mix questions for Beginner

waedi wrote:
9Cows wrote:

Thanks Waedi - it works.

I was not aware that this has to be followed in the very order. Thanks a ton for your help. I was doing, input-vol, output-vol, Mix again & again.

I have a couple of question -
Once I set this up - in the same session without losing power, if I adjust the volume of either input or output do I need to go back & press mix - or now it is of no consequence?

Thanks Again for your help!

I can't tell for sure but I think you should go thru the whole steps to do any adjustment.

If you don’t touch any button in the meantime, the wheel is still active for the virtual input channel fader related to the particular stereo output channels. But of course if you want to adjust the output volume, you have to press the out button first, then set the volume by the wheel. For the input volume, mix and select buttons are needed again then.

FF 400 - Babyface pro - Digiface USB - ADI-2 (original)
Mac mini M1 - Macbook pro - iPad Air2

Re: Total Mix questions for Beginner

"For the input volume, mix and select buttons are needed again then"

Thank you so much - this helps!