1 Topic by dacusr (edited by dacusr 2024-05-19 21:12:32)

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Topic: ADI 2 DAC FS high pitch noise

Hi,
I bought this dac but it kept making this awful high pitched noise, it seems to emanate from the screen but even when it is disabled with autodark it's still measurably making noise, just quieter.

The replacement unit had the exact same problem... The noise seems concentrated in the 10 to 14khz range and is not caused by the PSU bundled with the DAC.

My question is what the hell is causing this? surely for 1200 euros and 7 years on the market this would have been fixed?
The dac also causes a buzzing noise even on optical if used with ANC headphones, the volume of the buzz is reduced depending on how many of my fingers are touching the DAC.

I also found that the power requirement specified on the back of the unit(9-15V) is wrong, it will not function normally on 9V, it actually requires over 9,3V else it locks up and display a power fail error.

Please fix it or tell me if there is an RME model that does not do this.
Thanks

2 Reply by waedi (edited by waedi 2024-05-19 18:51:03)

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Re: ADI 2 DAC FS high pitch noise

What device are you referring ? Can't be an ADI-2 FS because this has no screen.

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Re: ADI 2 DAC FS high pitch noise

waedi wrote:

What device are you referring ? Can't be an ADI-2 FS because this has no screen.

I meant the RME ADI 2 DAC FS : https://rme-audio.de/adi-2-dac.html
Sorry for the confusion, the names are easy to get mixed up.

4 Reply by waedi (edited by waedi 2024-05-19 21:22:36)

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Re: ADI 2 DAC FS high pitch noise

For finding this 9,3volt, did you test with a DC generating unit ?
And the noise issue persists ?

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Re: ADI 2 DAC FS high pitch noise

And is the pitch sound in the headphones/loudspeakers or you hear it from the device directly by ears?

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Re: ADI 2 DAC FS high pitch noise

waedi wrote:

For finding this 9,3volt, did you test with a DC generating unit ?
And the noise issue persists ?

I tested with 9V and 12V USB PD to DC adapters.
12V works depending on the source.(USB PD charger makes the DAC intermittently turn off, with a power bank it seems to work OK but i didn't thoroughly test because it still made the noise)
9V causes the power fail error and a 9,3V threshold is mentioned in the user manual entry about power fail error.

Kubrak wrote:

And is the pitch sound in the headphones/loudspeakers or you hear it from the device directly by ears?

The high pitch noise is from the DAC itself, the buzzing is heard in headphones. the buzzing seems to originate from the bundled PSU according to other threads on the forum.

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Re: ADI 2 DAC FS high pitch noise

Have you measured the voltage under the load by the interface? 9 V adapter may easily provide less than 9 V if loaded. So its voltage is below 9 V.

I do not have ADI-2 DAC FS, but I strongly doubt the buzzing would be caused by its external PSU.

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Re: ADI 2 DAC FS high pitch noise

The issue of display making sounds on the ESS version of the ADI-2 DAC has been thoroughly discussed on this forum. AFAIR, you need to contact your seller/distributor.

Fireface UCX II + ARC USB > ADI-2 Pro FS R BE > Neumann KH 750 DSP + MA 1 > KH 120 A

9 Reply by MC

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Re: ADI 2 DAC FS high pitch noise

The issue of buzzing sound in phones has been thoroughly discussed on this forum. This is leakage current from the SMPS. You need to ground the DAC.

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Matthias Carstens
RME

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Re: ADI 2 DAC FS high pitch noise

unpluggged wrote:

The issue of display making sounds on the ESS version of the ADI-2 DAC has been thoroughly discussed on this forum. AFAIR, you need to contact your seller/distributor.

Thomann sent me RMA return instructions when i sent them proof of the problem still occuring with screen turned off until the unit is completely turned off.
The replacement unit was the exact same as far i can tell, had no choice but to return and refund... Is the entirety of Thomann's RME ADI 2 DAC FS stock like that?

MC wrote:

The issue of buzzing sound in phones has been thoroughly discussed on this forum. This is leakage current from the SMPS. You need to ground the DAC.

I was planning to use the DAC from batteries anyway but is there anything RME can do to ensure every future customer gets a foolproof no buzz, no hiss experience? Running the DAC from the PSU and grounded through USB was still buzzing, just less.
Is there any RME DAC product that at least does not suffer from the high pitch noise?(even if it has less features or costs more)

Thanks

11 Reply by KaiS (edited by KaiS 2024-05-21 21:06:18)

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Re: ADI 2 DAC FS high pitch noise

dacusr wrote:

1 … making this awful high pitched noise, it seems to emanate from the screen …in the 10 to 14khz range and is not caused by the PSU bundled with the DAC.

2 … The dac also causes a buzzing noise even on optical if used with ANC headphones, the volume of the buzz is reduced depending on how many of my fingers are touching the DAC.

3 … I also found that the power requirement specified on the back of the unit(9-15V) is wrong, it will not function normally on 9V, it actually requires over 9,3V else it locks up and display a power fail error.

Three different issues:

1. Display noise: RME formerly had offered to fix this on affected devices by a hardware mod.

2. Just answered here again, a lack-of-ground-issue in certain configurations:
https://forum.rme-audio.de/viewtopic.ph … 15#p218915

3. The DAC draws ca. 1 ampere of current, that can lead to a voltage drop along a PSU‘s cable.
9 volts needs to be present at ADI-2‘s power inlet.
A PSU with exactly 9 V without load only therefore is not suited.

KaiS's Website

12 Reply by Marshall (edited by Marshall 2024-06-08 21:55:36)

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Re: ADI 2 DAC FS high pitch noise

FWIW, I've been using my RME ADI-2 DAC FS for going on 2 years without any of these issues. With headphones, without headphones.  Never any buzz, never any hiss.

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Re: ADI 2 DAC FS high pitch noise

Marshall wrote:

FWIW, I've been using my RME ADI-2 DAC FS for going on 2 years without any of these issues. With headphones, without headphones.  Never any buzz, never any hiss.

Which model do you have? did you check with a spectrograph and microphone that there is no hiss?(check with a phone app, in the above 10khz range)

There seems to be three models, two with DAC chips from AKM(?-2021), the units since sometime in summer 2021 have a ESS9028Q2M chip and from what i can find the problem didn't exist before this chip change.



If it is indeed the ESS version that has the problem, where can i find an actually working AKM version? Or maybe the problem started occuring sometime after the DAC chip change?
I find it sad that RME won't do anything, there is no workaround for this issue that wouldn't involve enveloping the entire DAC in phonic isolation material(dangerous).
All the performance and features in the world will not matter if you get assaulted by hissing noise everytime you don't have closed back headphones on.

14 Reply by ramses (edited by ramses 2024-06-09 12:09:23)

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Re: ADI 2 DAC FS high pitch noise

Transducer differences are very subtle. If there is interference noise, then in my opinion, this indicates a defect.

Unnecessary to invest time (for chasing shadows) whether it might be due to a particular HW release or DAC chip.
All RME devices are designed to reach the documented specs and not to produce noise.

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub14
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Re: ADI 2 DAC FS high pitch noise

So if i want a guaranteed 100% noiseless ADI-2 DAC FS(meaning a hiss can neither be heard or measured) i should just bruteforce my way in by ordering ADI-2 DAC FSes until i obtain one that doesn't hiss?

While technically doable, the sellers/distributors are going to understandably hate me if i buy them 5 of the same very expensive item then return them opened but barely used.(which is what i expect to happen since thomann's replacement unit had the same exact problem.)

16 Reply by ramses (edited by ramses 2024-06-09 12:37:58)

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Re: ADI 2 DAC FS high pitch noise

You are misinterpreting my statement and I just re-read the whole thread, before I just read your comment that you think it could be based on differences in DAC chips being used, which is not the case.

There were concrete answers what it could be from RME and KaiS.

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub14

17 Reply by MC

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Re: ADI 2 DAC FS high pitch noise

dacusr wrote:

So if i want a guaranteed 100% noiseless ADI-2 DAC FS(meaning a hiss can neither be heard or measured) i should just bruteforce my way in by ordering ADI-2 DAC FSes until i obtain one that doesn't hiss?

While technically doable, the sellers/distributors are going to understandably hate me if i buy them 5 of the same very expensive item then return them opened but barely used.(which is what i expect to happen since thomann's replacement unit had the same exact problem.)

Then send the unit to the distributor instead, they can fix that issue, as stated before.

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME

MC's Website

18 Reply by Kubrak (edited by Kubrak 2024-06-09 13:30:23)

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Re: ADI 2 DAC FS high pitch noise

@dacusr
To find if you have AKM or ESS you may check DA filter choices. Each chip offers little bit different selection. Which is which has been discussed in this forum.

I am not sure, but I think that newest models of ADI 2 DAC FS have AKM again.

And grouding ADI 2 DAC FS, as MC has suggested, does not help? I am not sure if USB gives the grounding needed... It may be somehow isolated from audiopart to avoid introducing hum from computer....

https://www.audiosciencereview.com/foru … eas.43713/

MC did not mention using USB in the above link, so I guess using USB ground is not expected to bring the solution. Most probably proper grounding is needed.

19 Reply by KaiS (edited by KaiS 2024-06-10 01:04:53)

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Re: ADI 2 DAC FS high pitch noise

USB can transfer noise through the ground link, via ADI-2‘s internal ground and chassis, to other connected devices like power amps or active speakers.

Even in this case ADI-2 ADI-2’s signal itself stays 100% clean, e.g. when headphones are plugged in, but ADI-2 can’t clean up a polluted ground.


There are several options.
First, check if the noise disappears when USB is unplugged.

If yes:

Use balanced connection to the power amp / active speaker.
This only helps if the power amp has true balanced inputs.

Or use an Intone USB ground isolator.


If no:

Your system might need an extra ground.
This sometimes happens witch planar magnetic or electrostatic headphones, caused from a combined phenomenon of mains leakage current with electrostatic attraction inside the headphones drivers.

Buy an ADI-2/4 Pro SE PSU, it has a “soft ground” that discharges the mains leakage potential.

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20 Reply by MC

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Re: ADI 2 DAC FS high pitch noise

Kubrak wrote:

@dacusr
To find if you have AKM or ESS you may check DA filter choices. Each chip offers little bit different selection. Which is which has been discussed in this forum.

I am not sure, but I think that newest models of ADI 2 DAC FS have AKM again.


Nope.

Kubrak wrote:

And grouding ADI 2 DAC FS, as MC has suggested, does not help?

AFAI understand his posts this is mainly about the audible noise from the unit itself. Grounding doesn't help with that.

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME

MC's Website

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Re: ADI 2 DAC FS high pitch noise

MC wrote:
dacusr wrote:

So if i want a guaranteed 100% noiseless ADI-2 DAC FS(meaning a hiss can neither be heard or measured) i should just bruteforce my way in by ordering ADI-2 DAC FSes until i obtain one that doesn't hiss?

While technically doable, the sellers/distributors are going to understandably hate me if i buy them 5 of the same very expensive item then return them opened but barely used.(which is what i expect to happen since thomann's replacement unit had the same exact problem.)

Then send the unit to the distributor instead, they can fix that issue, as stated before.

Where i reside(France) when you get a defect on a new unit any decent retailer will offer an exchange for new unit, or coupon/refund. In fact it's considered (very) disrespectful to make the customer wait for repairs on a newly paid product.

I don't know what is standard practice in other parts of Europe but how am i supposed to send it for repair if by default retailers that sell RME products will refuse and give me a weird look if i want to refuse an exchange/refund in favor of repair?

According to a retailer i've inquired about the DAC, the hissing occurs exclusively on ESS version of the ADI-2 DAC FS, i don't know for sure if that is true but they also mentioned that it is rare and only occurs at 80% brightness and i know from personal experience that it is a misconception.(reffering to my original post)

What i meant is please investigate the problem and get to the bottom of it, your customers shouldn't get punished with ear torture seemingly because they bought it after the AKM shortage. I understand that the buzzing is from the PSU and can be worked around but the hiss isn't since it measurably only stops after powering off or removing the power cable.

Some users may not care or hear it but for those who do it isn't reasonable to put up with this, i'm sure you understand.

22 Reply by Kubrak (edited by Kubrak 2024-06-12 22:51:46)

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Re: ADI 2 DAC FS high pitch noise

MC wrote:
Kubrak wrote:

And grouding ADI 2 DAC FS, as MC has suggested, does not help?

AFAI understand his posts this is mainly about the audible noise from the unit itself. Grounding doesn't help with that.

@MC, here, @dacusr states he hears it in headphones, not directly....

dacusr wrote:
Kubrak wrote:

And is the pitch sound in the headphones/loudspeakers or you hear it from the device directly by ears?

The high pitch noise is from the DAC itself, the buzzing is heard in headphones. the buzzing seems to originate from the bundled PSU according to other threads on the forum.

23 Reply by KaiS (edited by KaiS 2024-06-12 23:36:40)

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Re: ADI 2 DAC FS high pitch noise

Are we talking about hiss or something audible from connected headphones/speakers, or mechanical noise from ADI-2 or it’s PSU?

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24 Reply by dacusr (edited by dacusr 2024-06-13 08:41:24)

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Re: ADI 2 DAC FS high pitch noise

KaiS wrote:

Are we talking about hiss or something audible from connected headphones/speakers, or mechanical noise from ADI-2 or it’s PSU?

The hissing(difficult to describe) is heard from the unit and measurable with a microphone.
There is a 10~14khz spike that changes peak frequency with content on the screen and brightness, when the LCD screen turns off with AutoDark the noise is still there but quieter and spread with harmonics in the same range. This continues until the unit is powered off...
https://www.cjoint.com/c/NFnhItBKaCD (changing brightness quickly)
https://www.cjoint.com/c/NFnhICwuesD (transitioning from frequency spectrum visualizer to screen off with autodark)
https://www.cjoint.com/c/NFnhIPIsosD (entire unit off, compare with second image)

25 Reply by MC

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Re: ADI 2 DAC FS high pitch noise

Yes, and everything about this has been mentioned and explained above. No pics or measurements needed. You can continue trying other units, or getting a definitively fixed device via your local distributor by sending him the unit you have.

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME

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