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RME User Forum → TotalMix FX → Pan an input channel between left and right of output channel
Hi,
I would like to pan an input channel between left and right of a stereo output channel. Have not been able to accomplish this with TotalMix using Babyface pro and Behringer ADA8000. For each of the input channels, I would like to finally have different pan positions. Is there a way to do this?
Hi
I would say this is easy as soon the input channels are set to mono.
It does not seem straightforward to me. For example, I have a mic plugged into ADAT3, which is mono. It is routes to AN1 AN2, and PH3/4. I have the output from the Babyface Pro 3.5mm phone out connected to an amp. No matter how I change the pan settings, the sound always comes out from the right speaker even though I pan full left.
If you have TotalMix set to 'submix' mode (in the blue settings area on the right side of the mixer window), then you have always to click on the corresponding hardware output channel strip first to show its particular mix. In your case this is PH 3/4 hardware out. The levels and pan settings of inputs and playbacks are not the same for all the outputs.
Yes, TotalMix is in Submix mode. I have the ADAT 3 set to mono, when click on the bottom of this input, it show two routes, AN1/2 and PH3/4. When I select PH3/4, the hardware Main Output is highlighted, which cannot switch to Mono mode, so no panning is possible.
I do not have TotalMix on this computer to try. But I think, you have to click on respective output and then set faders and L-R ballance on inputs.
And repeat it for each output (according to needs).
I think the problem is PH 3/4 (labeled as Main) cannot be turned mono with the BabyFace Pro. Could not figure how to upload screenshot. But I am suspecting it is a limit of the BabyFace Pro. Wonder if they changed in the FS update or not.
I think the problem is PH 3/4 (labeled as Main) cannot be turned mono with the BabyFace Pro. Could not figure how to upload screenshot. But I am suspecting it is a limit of the BabyFace Pro. Wonder if they changed in the FS update or not.
Of course the output has to stay in stereo! The mix of different signals panned individually to the left or right wouldn’t work otherwise.
The pan setting has to be done on the input channel, as already explained by kubrak.
Only to be sure: we are talking about direct monitoring of the hardware inputs, right? No DAW / recording / playback / software monitoring involved?
I think we need screen shots as the Babyface has the capability but you must be doing something wrong. If you play something else in stereo do you get the same problem? Have you checked the cable in the output? Why not use the main balanced outputs? Have you tried those and is the result the same?
@george.soong
By memory, not having TM at hand....
1) Click on PH 3/4 so that it becomes lighter color than other outputs.
2) Adjust faders of inputs and playbacks to volume/mix required.
3) Place channels to stereo image as needed using dials on inputs and playbacks. I am not sure if the pan dial is directly visible or one has click the "setup" icon of the fader...
I think, there is also srereo dial on outputs, but that is for further 'ballancing' stereo image, but main work has to be done on inputs and playbacks (if they are mono and not already stereo).
I recomend to go through all RME videos for TM several times. It did help me a lot. TM is great tool, but one has to invest time to understand the concepts. It works in some ways different way one would think without comprehending concepts behind.
I have been totally lost at first.
george.soong wrote:I think the problem is PH 3/4 (labeled as Main) cannot be turned mono with the BabyFace Pro. Could not figure how to upload screenshot. But I am suspecting it is a limit of the BabyFace Pro. Wonder if they changed in the FS update or not.
Of course the output has to stay in stereo! The mix of different signals panned individually to the left or right wouldn’t work otherwise.
The pan setting has to be done on the input channel, as already explained by kubrak.
Only to be sure: we are talking about direct monitoring of the hardware inputs, right? No DAW / recording / playback / software monitoring involved?
Yes, only monitoring hardware. I have one mic connected to ADAT3, and have been panning it from left to right, but it always comes out through the right speaker regardless of pan position.
are the speakers connected to the Babyface or to the Behringer ?
Sure the left speaker is powered ON ?
I think we need screen shots as the Babyface has the capability but you must be doing something wrong. If you play something else in stereo do you get the same problem? Have you checked the cable in the output? Why not use the main balanced outputs? Have you tried those and is the result the same?
I have made a screenshot, but cannot figure out how to upload it.
If I play music tracks directly from the computer, it plays fine.
I had not tried the balanced outputs because the amp takes unbalanced 3.5 stereo inputs, but if I route the ADAT 3 also to AN1/2, for some reason both level meters show activity but not equal levels regardless how I set the pan.
are the speakers connected to the Babyface or to the Behringer ?
Sure the left speaker is powered ON ?
The amplifier is connected to the phone 3.5 output of the BabyFace Pro. Both speakers work fine when I play music from the computer.
Upload the screenshot there :
https://imgbb.com
Open the uploaded image in your computer, right-click onto image, copy image-address.
Paste inbetween the img tag in the forum post.
The image does not show up using the img option, but the link opens the screenshot.
You have ADAT3 set to L100 and Main output levelmeter shows signal accordingly only in left channel. That is right.
As I have said few times already, you have to set pan on input. This case on ADAT3. If you want ADAT3 signal placed e.g. to L30, change the pan value on ADAT3 to L30.
If one splits stereo pair to mono channels, TM, I think, dials pan of previous left channel to L100 and previous right one to R100. That is probably why your ADAT3 is L100 now.
On the screenshot all looks fine. ADAT 3 input is panned to hard left, on output the signal only shows up on the left channel.
You didn't follow my instructions, right-click into the image and copy image-address
Anyway the link is ok
Your Totalmix setting looks right, it seems to be your cable adapter or the cable itself is wrong.
you simply have to switch the cables at the speakers.
The input Adat 3 is panned fully left and the signal in the main-out shows fully left too, as expected.
If you change the pan to right, is the main-out not following ?
That would be a real issue. Update firmware and driver again would be my first recommendation.
Please make another screenshot where the pan is to the right.
Also try a Total Reset.
edit :
And also in the new screenshot add the routing from adat input 3 to the output AN1/2 for showing the difference in the signal, as you wrote in post 13.
The Babyface Pro has two headphone sockets, both have the same signal, you can check with a headphone if those are the same.
@kubrak, maybe you didn’t read the thread carefully enough? The issue is:
I have one mic connected to ADAT3, and have been panning it from left to right, but it always comes out through the right speaker regardless of pan position.
Yes, but one may pan also on output. If input is panned L100, it stays at L if one pans only output.... OP never has said. Of course I pan input, not output....
But if I read the thread again, it seems to me that problem is the cabling. Or the output is defective.
You have ADAT3 set to L100 and Main output levelmeter shows signal accordingly only in left channel. That is right.
As I have said few times already, you have to set pan on input. This case on ADAT3. If you want ADAT3 signal placed e.g. to L30, change the pan value on ADAT3 to L30.
If one splits stereo pair to mono channels, TM, I think, dials pan of previous left channel to L100 and previous right one to R100. That is probably why your ADAT3 is L100 now.
The problem is, no mater how I pan ADAT3, the mic output is always from the right speaker.
Yes, but one may pan also on output. If input is panned L100, it stays at L if one pans only output.... OP never has said. Of course I pan input, not output....
But if I read the thread again, it seems to me that problem is the cabling. Or the output is defective.
There are only 3 cables, two Toslink and one 3.5mm TRS. Music played from the computer is fine. I set the ADA8000 clock to be master because sound was not getting in when I slave mode.
@george.soong what happens when you move the stereo balance knob on the hardware output (phones out)?
I also assume an issue with the cable. As suggested by waedi, you can simply check that with a pair of headphones on both the 3.5mm and 6.3mm sockets. Weird thing is you say with software playback all is fine …?
On the screenshot all looks fine. ADAT 3 input is panned to hard left, on output the signal only shows up on the left channel.
I am not with the setup today. Tomorrow I will send more screenshots.
@george.soong what happens when you move the stereo balance knob on the hardware output (phones out)?
I also assume an issue with the cable. As suggested by waedi, you can simply check that with a pair of headphones on both the 3.5mm and 6.3mm sockets. Weird thing is you say with software playback all is fine …?
Yes, when I play music from the computer, to the BabyFace Pro, it plays fine.
…I set the ADA8000 clock to be master because sound was not getting in when I slave mode.
That’s not related to the topic, but anyway I’m sure it would work also the other way round. I have an ADA8000 slaved over ADAT to a Digiface USB - all fine! Of course the ADA8000 has to be set as slave (switch on back side). In some rare cases such issues are caused by (bad / cheap) optical cables. Maybe try another one…
oli77sch wrote:@george.soong what happens when you move the stereo balance knob on the hardware output (phones out)?
I also assume an issue with the cable. As suggested by waedi, you can simply check that with a pair of headphones on both the 3.5mm and 6.3mm sockets. Weird thing is you say with software playback all is fine …?Yes, when I play music from the computer, to the BabyFace Pro, it plays fine.
What about the other question and the headphone test?
Just to make sure... It has been already mentioned...
The panning on hardware input is individual for each hardware output, not shared. Do you set ADAT3 panning for the output that does not seem to react to the panning?
Sure way to know how the routing and other settings for given hardware out is to click on it. I am not sure, if that dropdown menu with HW outs on HW input works the same way.... I do not use it that way, and do not have TM at hand to try...
george.soong wrote:oli77sch wrote:@george.soong what happens when you move the stereo balance knob on the hardware output (phones out)?
I also assume an issue with the cable. As suggested by waedi, you can simply check that with a pair of headphones on both the 3.5mm and 6.3mm sockets. Weird thing is you say with software playback all is fine …?Yes, when I play music from the computer, to the BabyFace Pro, it plays fine.
What about the other question and the headphone test?
The playback amp is connected to the 3.5mm phone output. I have no tried the 6.5mm output.
Just to make sure... It has been already mentioned...
The panning on hardware input is individual for each hardware output, not shared. Do you set ADAT3 panning for the output that does not seem to react to the panning?
Sure way to know how the routing and other settings for given hardware out is to click on it. I am not sure, if that dropdown menu with HW outs on HW input works the same way.... I do not use it that way, and do not have TM at hand to try...
Yeah, when I get back to the setup, I need to take a more structured approach to debug the situation. It seemed pretty straightforward after I started to get mic output. Certainly did not expect this happing. Since I have not used the BabyFace pro for a long time, I probably should play it save to check the TotalMix and firmware versions?
Kubrak wrote:Just to make sure... It has been already mentioned...
The panning on hardware input is individual for each hardware output, not shared. Do you set ADAT3 panning for the output that does not seem to react to the panning?
Sure way to know how the routing and other settings for given hardware out is to click on it. I am not sure, if that dropdown menu with HW outs on HW input works the same way.... I do not use it that way, and do not have TM at hand to try...
Yeah, when I get back to the setup, I need to take a more structured approach to debug the situation. It seemed pretty straightforward after I started to get mic output. Certainly did not expect this happing. Since I have not used the BabyFace pro for a long time, I probably should play it save to check the TotalMix and firmware versions?
On the screenshot (post nr. 16) to my eyes all is fine. PH 3/4 outputs are assigned to main out. This one is selected as active mix, ADAT input 3 is routed correctly, pan is at L100, on main output meter there is the signal visible at the left channel, no signal at right channel. So, to my understanding it’s not an issue within TotalMix. Anyway to check (and maybe update) both the driver and firmware is probably not wrong. Or, as a first step, you could try a complete reset of TotalMix. Of course you will loose all your routings. Another question: how do the other ADAT input channels behave? Is it the same with the mic signal coming from ADAT 1/2/4/5/6/7/8 as it is with ADAT 3? And again: how is it when you plug some headphones in the 3.5mm out and listen to the mix?
Sure way to know how the routing and other settings for given hardware out is to click on it. I am not sure, if that dropdown menu with HW outs on HW input works the same way.... I do not use it that way, and do not have TM at hand to try...
When you click on the mix target on the bottom of hw inputs (and also on sw playback), you see the list of all possible hw output 'targets'. The mark on a hw output means, there is a signal flow, so a raised fader for this particular mix. In submix view mode It’s a practical way to see to what outputs the input or playback signal is going without changing the active mix view. Also it's easy to switch between different submixes and doing adjustments on a particular input or playback channel. No need to move down the mouse and click on a particular output channel strip to show its mix, then moving the mouse up again to the input and set the level.
OK, I thought it might work that way, but was not sure as I do not use it.
Better said, I was not sure if browsing items in that list shows setup of that HW input for selected HW output.
OP must do something wrongly in TM if computer playback is OK. If computer playback is OK, BF output must be OK and cabling and loudspeakers as well.
There must be some mysterious setup "mistake" in TM. I guess.
Two pictures one with mic pan to L and other with pan to R would help.... Maybe.
There must be some mysterious setup "mistake" in TM. I guess.
I don’t know what is wrong, on the screenshot all looks right.
Maybe if we have the both screenshots... The main out should show signal only on R channel if the mic is panned to R100.
Agreed. Weird enough to see it shows correct with left channel but OP says audio comes always from the right speaker only...
OP is flooded by too much ambulance ?
Headphone-test and screenshot will bring some light into this...
george.soong wrote:Kubrak wrote:Just to make sure... It has been already mentioned...
The panning on hardware input is individual for each hardware output, not shared. Do you set ADAT3 panning for the output that does not seem to react to the panning?
Sure way to know how the routing and other settings for given hardware out is to click on it. I am not sure, if that dropdown menu with HW outs on HW input works the same way.... I do not use it that way, and do not have TM at hand to try...
Yeah, when I get back to the setup, I need to take a more structured approach to debug the situation. It seemed pretty straightforward after I started to get mic output. Certainly did not expect this happing. Since I have not used the BabyFace pro for a long time, I probably should play it save to check the TotalMix and firmware versions?
On the screenshot (post nr. 16) to my eyes all is fine. PH 3/4 outputs are assigned to main out. This one is selected as active mix, ADAT input 3 is routed correctly, pan is at L100, on main output meter there is the signal visible at the left channel, no signal at right channel. So, to my understanding it’s not an issue within TotalMix. Anyway to check (and maybe update) both the driver and firmware is probably not wrong. Or, as a first step, you could try a complete reset of TotalMix. Of course you will loose all your routings. Another question: how do the other ADAT input channels behave? Is it the same with the mic signal coming from ADAT 1/2/4/5/6/7/8 as it is with ADAT 3? And again: how is it when you plug some headphones in the 3.5mm out and listen to the mix?
I have not tried the other ADAT channels yet. The suggestion to plug headphones into the 3.5mm out is a good idea.
No, I mean the same ADAT. Once panned full L and second panned full R.
And silly question, but still... Concerning the cabling and loudspeakers..... If you play from computer, sounds L from L and R from R? Is not it swapped?
------
Friend of mine insists to playing L channel from R loudspeaker and vice versa. Tells me that that is the right way to do.....
No, I mean the same ADAT. Once panned full L and second panned full R.
Sorry to say that, but your answer is confusing. George replied to my post, see above, please. I asked how the other ADAT inputs behave.
I think the mystery is solved! The amp side of the 3.5mm TRS cable was not seated properly (probably not fully in). I plugged headphones into the BabyFace Pro, and everything was fine, so I replugged the amp side, and it is working right now. Thanks for all the help!
An additional question about TotalMix, is it possible to introduce delay to a channel input into the mix? Each channel independently?
I am starting to get familiar with TotalMix functionality in preparation for a Taiwan Tango Marathon event in March next year. During the event, there needs to be a mixture of mics for the live band for amplification, also planning on live recording at the same time through these mics each track independently. Since I am also quite a hard core audiophile, I would like to tune the mix so that the sound image can present each instrument location as it actually is adjusting the delays between the channels.
To your question, no, this is not possible with Totalmix.
Recording does record every input signal directly without any delay or reverb.
EQ and dynamics on input signal is possible, to enable in the driver settings.
Delay and reverb in Totalmix is only for the output signal.
You have to add delay in the DAW after the recording, beside reducing high frequencies a little bit for instruments far away.
Is it possible to insert FIR filters before routing to outputs to speakers? Understand this would introduce some delay to the route, but would like to explore the effects of linearizing microphone phase.
Not within Totalmix.
You would have to use a DAW, Reaper for example gives you the freedom to implement all kind of plugins and effects.
Not within Totalmix.
You would have to use a DAW, Reaper for example gives you the freedom to implement all kind of plugins and effects.
Does this mean I would have to route through something like Reaper, then mix through software inputs?
exactly
As I always learnt in fault finding. Start at layer 1 which is physical before looking at everything else.
RME User Forum → TotalMix FX → Pan an input channel between left and right of output channel
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