• Registered: 2010-01-28
  • Posts: 13

Topic: Room EQ - Easy crossover request

Hi,
I'm a very old RME user ... still have a Hammerfall DSP Digiface ;-)
We have been through many RME interfaces.
Now with our latest UFX III and discovering Room EQ, I just don't understand why we are just limited to 3 HP-LP filters.
If you give use 4, you give us the opportunity to build an amazing crossover not limited to 2 way.
I don't get it. It so easy for you to implement ? It would be a small solution but a solution.
Now commercially, Trinov and DAD offer this function. Why not RME since you have this DSP available that is not very used by many users. It would be a selling argument now that you've teamed up with Sonaworks. I mean a proper crossover software.
I've done some crossovers with convolution :
https://accuratesound.ca/hang-loose-convolver-hlc/
It works great but it's on my CPU, not on your dsp.

I was about to start building a 4 way XO in Room EQ but did' find the way to make some 24 dB LR for the mid and bass unless tweaking like mad.

Very sad.

  • Registered: 2010-01-28
  • Posts: 13

Re: Room EQ - Easy crossover request

Since I need to recap my old analogue crossovers, I managed with a lot of tweaking to get some kind of digital alternative with Room EQ which I will test once I solder some new cable adaptors for it.
In case my picture link works : Green original XO, red Room EQ XO.
and the levels or curves are not at listening position. It's just a prouve of concept...
If latency is acceptable, there will be a lot of tweaking to get this right.
I'm curious about all the phase problem that might occur ?

https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/m8vvadah … l&dl=0

3 Reply by MC

  • MC
  • MC
  • Administrator
  • Offline
  • From: Germany/Thailand
  • Registered: 2007-04-06
  • Posts: 25,582

Re: Room EQ - Easy crossover request

So you overlooked the additional Highpass/Lowpass in the 3-band PEQ?

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME

MC's Website

4 Reply by reader (edited by reader 2024-07-28 13:19:39)

  • Registered: 2010-01-28
  • Posts: 13

Re: Room EQ - Easy crossover request

I did it !
It works but you can't get the dim working with the the talkback button. Dim works properly on its own.
Maybe I mist something ?
No added problematic latency.
My other problem was the analogue gain stage having power amps without level control (can be fixed with resistors very easily), I couldn't get anything over -20 dBfs going out the DAs even @ +4dBu.

So you overlooked the additional Highpass/Lowpass in the 3-band PEQ?

No, I didn't. I wanted one easy solution for gain and delay control.


Digital crossovers are the futur but you need to know what you're doing so you down blow up your tweeters.
You can get very cheap calibrated microphone and use REW.
With dsp you can really sort out all the phasing problems of XOs and tune speakers for a better result.
It's not not plug and play work !

With all the new amazing and cheap class D amps, you would be amazed how active speakers sounds ...
My only pair with passive XO are my good old NS10s.

RME can easily code in TotalMix DSP a proper basic crossover software which would give so many solutions for so many new clients !

  • Registered: 2023-06-30
  • Posts: 161

Re: Room EQ - Easy crossover request

reader wrote:

Digital crossovers are the futur

Nope, they're not "the futur", they're the present. That's why a studio interface does not need to implement them when your monitors already use DSPs.

RME can easily code in TotalMix DSP a proper basic crossover software which would give so many solutions for so many new clients !

See the previous paragraph.

Fireface UCX II + ARC USB > ADI-2 Pro FS R BE > Neumann KH 750 DSP + MA 1 > KH 120 A
  • Registered: 2010-01-28
  • Posts: 13

Re: Room EQ - Easy crossover request

Thanks for the very constructive comments !
You seem happy with your pre-made active dsp monitors. Great for you !
Why do DAD (in Avid top of the range AD/DA rebranded in case you didn't know) and Trinnov sell active dsp crossovers ?
There is a demand for DSP crossovers for people who need more control. RME have all they need in their hardware to play in this market. It's just software code needed ...

Why being negative about the request ?

And since you are an AD/DA expert, it would be nice to give me a link to a "digital level resolution" paper.
I still get a better sound with a DA with full FS resolution. the less AD/DA, the better. So all these speakers with DSP, unless feed with digital, are a mess. Another argument to have RME do an XO where you know what you are sending to your speakers.
my first actives were Genelecs 1031, 30 years ago. I was lucky, there was some dip switch to tune them ...

  • Registered: 2023-06-30
  • Posts: 161

Re: Room EQ - Easy crossover request

reader wrote:

Thanks for the very constructive comments !
You seem happy with your pre-made active dsp monitors. Great for you !
Why do DAD (in Avid top of the range AD/DA rebranded in case you didn't know) and Trinnov sell active dsp crossovers ?
There is a demand for DSP crossovers for people who need more control. RME have all they need in their hardware to play in this market. It's just software code needed ...

There is no place for DIY in a commercial studio. And if your studio is so advanced, there are custom solutions that are, again, much more complex and tailored. Studio interfaces are not a replacement for in-speaker DSP. There are some people who use multichannel interfaces for software-based crossovers, but these use cases are niche and beyond the scope of studio workflows. In principle, you can use an RME studio interface with sufficient number of analog outputs in conjunction with some kind of software crossover running on an SBC or a PC to achieve your goal, but IMO you are looking for a solution to a solved problem. Just get a set of any decent studio monitors where all your concerns have been taken care of in the first place.

And since you are an AD/DA expert, it would be nice to give me a link to a "digital level resolution" paper.
I still get a better sound with a DA with full FS resolution. the less AD/DA, the better. So all these speakers with DSP, unless feed with digital, are a mess. Another argument to have RME do an XO where you know what you are sending to your speakers.
my first actives were Genelecs 1031, 30 years ago. I was lucky, there was some dip switch to tune them ...

:facepalm.jpg:

Fireface UCX II + ARC USB > ADI-2 Pro FS R BE > Neumann KH 750 DSP + MA 1 > KH 120 A
  • Registered: 2010-01-28
  • Posts: 13

Re: Room EQ - Easy crossover request

Dear Unplugged,

I don’t spend my time on forums to exist by showing my knowledge and trolling …
You seem not to know much about sound quality, acoustics and professional needs except what you read on internet !

A long time ago, forums were there to help each other on technical issues.
I don’t see what point you’re trying to make against a request which could be interesting for RME and people with different needs than you. And I don’t care …

If you call DAD's offer DIY, I suggest you read more before making wrong statements !

https://digitalaudio.dk/ax-center/


I think you should unplug and troll away !

kind regard,

Reader