• From: Canada
  • Registered: 2016-02-11
  • Posts: 87

Topic: Clocking UFX+ (master) ADI-2 pro fs be (digital feed to UFX+)

Please confirm that I have a correct setup for clocking. Thanks in advance to the experts on this forum for feedback.

Briefly, for playback, SPDIF optical routes to an ADI-2 pro fs be, then to an UFX+. Both ADI-2 and UFX+ connect to the same Windows pc. There is no SPDIF optical signal back to the ADI-2 from the UFX+ as the optical input on the ADI-2 is occupied by the playback source.

Playback is mostly without ticks. There are occasional ticks that could be the source material or timing errors.  I hope to eliminate timing as a possible problem.

I use the UFX+ for digital room correction in which the mic ADC must use the same clock as the playback DAC.

For hifi playback, I connect an SPDIF optical input to an ADI-2 pro fs be, set to Digital Thru mode. The ADI-2 clock source is SPDIF. From the ADI-2, SPDIF optical goes to the Optical input 2 on the UFX+.

Both the UFX+ and ADI-2 connect by USB to the same Windows 11 pc. During hifi playback, the UFX+ routes the digital signal through a convolver on the Windows pc. Output to amps and speakers is from the UFX+ analog channels.

HIFI PLAYBACK SETUP

SPDIF(o) source
   |
ADI-2 Pro FS BE   ------------------USB2---------------- Win 11 pc Acourate Convolver
                                                                                |     ADI-remote, TMFX
   - (in) SPDIF(o) from source                                      |
   - (out) SPDIF(o)                                                      |
   |                                                                            |
UFX+ [Clock Master]   ---------------USB2--------------
   - (in) SPDIF(o2) from ADI-2
   - (out) SPDIF(o2) not used
   |
Amps and Speakers

ADI-2 pro fs be; UFX+; MADIfaceUSB; Startech active USB3 cable; Sonnet Allegro Pro adapter; Win11x64

2 Reply by ramses (edited by ramses 2024-08-19 10:03:32)

  • ramses
  • DAW Mastermind
  • Offline
  • From: UTC+1
  • Registered: 2012-10-14
  • Posts: 12,768

Re: Clocking UFX+ (master) ADI-2 pro fs be (digital feed to UFX+)

Hi Murray,

[ work in progress ]

I think you have a clock synchronization problem in your setup.
In addition to the UFX+ your HiFi Playback device seems to be clock master as well.
Two clock masters are not possible.
Therefore, you will have sometimes synchronization errors (clicks, ...).
You need to optimize the setup.

I saw in former posts that you had the issue that you need the ADI-2 Pro because your HiFi Playback device supported only USB. If I understand correctly, that was the main issues that you bought the ADI-2 Pro to be able to connect it via USB.

Now I see that the connection between Audio Playback device and ADI-2 Pro changed from USB to optical SPDIF.

To improve the situation for you in terms of clock synchronization, I propose the following optimization for you.

Is it really the case that you need to have also the UFX+ as clock master?
This complicates everything a little because then you night still need the ADI-2 Pro FS as SRC in front of the Daphile PC.
Otherwise everything could be much simpler.
Then you could
- use the Daphile PC as clock master
- place the ADI-2 Pro FS elsewhere and do not need it as SRC (sample rate converter).

PC with Daphile(cm)                                                                PC with Audio convolver
   |                                                                                                 |
   | SPDIF(o)                                                                                  |
   |                                                                                                 | TB or USB
   | ADAT IN (SRC)                                                                          |
ADI-2 Pro FS R BE(cs)--------------------AES-------------->AES IN---UFX+(cm)---AN1-10 OUT (Subwoofer, woofer, mid, tweeter, ...)
  |                       \---AES IN<------------------------------AES OUT---/
  |
Headphones

cm = clock master, cs = clock slave, SRC = sample rate converter


If you could use the Daphile PC as clock master then I think everything could be easier.

PC (Audio Convolver)----USB2
|                                        |
| TB/USB3                          | for ADI-2 remote, firmware updates
|                                        |
|    +---AES (IN/OUT)---ADI-2 Pro FS(cs) (2 more speakers, headphones)
|   /
UFX+(cs)---AN1-8 OUT (speakers, ...)
|   
| SPDIF(o)
|
Daphile PC(cm)

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub13

3 Reply by Labdoc (edited by Labdoc 2024-08-23 23:39:13)

  • From: Canada
  • Registered: 2016-02-11
  • Posts: 87

Re: Clocking UFX+ (master) ADI-2 pro fs be (digital feed to UFX+)

Success! No more clicks and dropouts

I made the UFX+ and the ADI-2 pro fs be clock slaves and Daphile clock master

My key insight was that the playback does not require the UFX+ mic ADC and DAC to be clock master. The playback does not use this feature. For room measurements, I switch the UFX+ to clock master ("internal"). The ADI-2 is not involved in the room measurements (to be confirmed).

So the playback chain is
Daphile (cm) -- USB2 --> Topping D10s USB-SPDIF bridge -- SPDIF(o) -- ADI-2 (cs) SRC on SPDIF in -- SPDIF(o) -- UFX+ Optical 2 in (cs, clock source = Optical 2) -- Windows pc by USB3 for convolution -- back to UFX+ for DAC and analog out to amps.

Daphile (mc)
   |
Topping D10s USB-SPDIF(o) bridge
   |
  spdif(o)
   |
ADI-2 Pro FS BE (cs, SRC)   -----USB2---------------- Win 11 pc Acourate Convolver
                                                                                             / ADI-remote, TMFX
   - (in) SPDIF(o) from Daphile                                                 /
   - (out) SPDIF(o) to UFX                                                     /
   |                                                                                    /
UFX+ [Clock Master]   ---------------USB2--------------
   - (in) SPDIF(o2) from ADI-2
   - (out) SPDIF(o2) not used
   |
Amps and Speakers

cm = clock master, cs = clock slave, SRC = sample rate converter
(o) = optical

ADI-2 Remote SOV
https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/g6kv8l6d … l&dl=1

MADIface Settings for UFX+
https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/g7y4y6h6 … t&dl=1

ADI-2 pro fs be; UFX+; MADIfaceUSB; Startech active USB3 cable; Sonnet Allegro Pro adapter; Win11x64
  • From: Canada
  • Registered: 2016-02-11
  • Posts: 87

Re: Clocking UFX+ (master) ADI-2 pro fs be (digital feed to UFX+)

I finally understood the ADI-2 manual section 8.6 about SRC. So the above post is still a work in progress.

ADI-2 pro fs be; UFX+; MADIfaceUSB; Startech active USB3 cable; Sonnet Allegro Pro adapter; Win11x64

5 Reply by ramses (edited by ramses 2024-08-24 10:14:11)

  • ramses
  • DAW Mastermind
  • Offline
  • From: UTC+1
  • Registered: 2012-10-14
  • Posts: 12,768

Re: Clocking UFX+ (master) ADI-2 pro fs be (digital feed to UFX+)

Hi,

congrats that you brought it now this far with proper clock sync.

I have optimized the drawing a little. I think it's now easier to grasp the layout at a glance.
Breaking device connections with redundant, actually superfluous comments made it a bit confusing.

Daphile (cm)
   |
   | USB
   |
Topping D10s USB-SPDIF bridge
   |
   | SPDIF(o)
   |
   | SRC
ADI-2 Pro FS R BE (cs)---USB2---------------- Win 11 PC  (Accurate Convolver)
   |                                                                  /
   | SPDIF(o)                                                  /
   |                                                               /
UFX+ (cm)------------------USB2--------------+
   \
    \
     +---> amps and speakers

cm = clock master, cs = clock slave, SRC = Sample Rate Conversion, (o) = optical

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub13

6 Reply by ramses (edited by ramses 2024-08-24 10:23:03)

  • ramses
  • DAW Mastermind
  • Offline
  • From: UTC+1
  • Registered: 2012-10-14
  • Posts: 12,768

Re: Clocking UFX+ (master) ADI-2 pro fs be (digital feed to UFX+)

I also like this style where all origins at the PC/Player on the left side.


Daphile PC (cm)---USB2-------------------------------------Topping D10s
                                                                                          |
                                                                                          | SPDIF(o)
     +---USB2 (ADI-2 Remote mgmt.)----------------------+     |
    /                                                                               \     | SRC
Win11 PC(*)----USB2-----UFX+ (cm)----SPDIF(o)-------ADI-2 Pro FS R BE (cs)
                                              \
                                               \
                                                +-------------------------> amps and speakers


(*) Accurate Convolver
SPDIF(o) = optical SPDIF
SRC = Sample Rate Conversion
cm = clock master, cs = clock slave

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub13
  • From: Canada
  • Registered: 2016-02-11
  • Posts: 87

Re: Clocking UFX+ (master) ADI-2 pro fs be (digital feed to UFX+)

Hi Ramses,
Thank you for the updated diagram of my system. I would like to report on testing of the setup and to provide a revised setup diagram. The revisions are in light of the quoted text from the ADI-2 manual (see below), and testing of the setup options I did today.

I will also report on the SRC feature in a separate post.

1. Under these conditions:
  a)f the ADI-2 is set to clock slave (i.e. clock source "SPDIF"), and
   b) the UFX+ is set to clock master

The result is that the UFX+ Input Status fluctuates between Lock and Sync.

2. Under these conditions:
  a)f the ADI-2 is set to clock "Int"  (i.e. clock source "Internal" = clock master), and
   b) the UFX+ is set as clock slave to the Opt2 input from the ADI-2

The result is that the UFX+ Input Status is stable "Sync"

Updated Setup Diagram
------------------------------------
Daphile (cm)
   |
   | USB
   |
Topping D10s USB-SPDIF bridge
   |
   | SPDIF(o)
   |
   | SRC
ADI-2 Pro FS R BE (INT=cm)---USB2---------------- Win 11 PC  (Accurate Convolver)
   |                                                                  /
   | SPDIF(o)                                                  /
   |                                                               /
UFX+ (Opt2=cs)------------------USB2--------------+
   \
    \
     +---> amps and speakers

cm = clock master, cs = clock slave, SRC = Sample Rate Conversion, (o) = optical

ADI-2 REMOTE DEVICE VIEW
https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/ber3bkpg … d&dl=1

ADI-2 REMOTE SOV
https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/j5sj6zkg … s&dl=1

UFX+ MADIface SETTINGS
https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/knhaiwcp … w&dl=1



Section 8.6 in the ADI-2 pro manual
An SRC not only converts sample rates, it also serves as a clock decoupler. With SRC active,
even non-synchronizable devices (CD-players, DAT machines, etc.) can be used in a setup of
digital devices, just as if they were externally synchronized. The SRC decouples input and output
clock and sets the output clock to the common reference, thus allowing the combination of different clock-sources.

Murray

ADI-2 pro fs be; UFX+; MADIfaceUSB; Startech active USB3 cable; Sonnet Allegro Pro adapter; Win11x64

8 Reply by Labdoc (edited by Labdoc 2024-08-25 19:13:50)

  • From: Canada
  • Registered: 2016-02-11
  • Posts: 87

Re: Clocking UFX+ (master) ADI-2 pro fs be (digital feed to UFX+)

As promised, I am reporting on the SRC function in the current setup in the post https://forum.rme-audio.de/viewtopic.ph … 47#p223347

SRC works beautifully!

Why SRC?
1. My library is a mix of 44.1, 96 and higher frequency flac files. I use a convolver for digital room correction. The convolver does not automatically change playback frequency. If I set the SRC to change all incoming digital audio to a constant frequency, the convolver works without need for manually switching input frequency.
2. decouples the clock from Daphile, the incoming stream. This allows sending the stream to the UFX+ without clock issues that formerly were causing drop-out

Which frequency for SRC?
88.2 is a compromise between up-scaling the majority of my library from 44.1, and down-scaling the less-numerous "high resolution" files I own, and Qobuz (default 96 Hz).

What is especially nice about the ADI-2 SRC?
Before using the ADI-2 SRC, I used a software SRC in Daphile. This resulted in over peak in Digicheck NG. Since using the ADI-2 SRC, I no longer get over peak warnings. I think the warnings were due to intersample peaks, mentioned in the ADI-2 manual section 8.6

Other brands of DAC offer to improve on the incoming digital audio for a price several times higher than the ADI-2 and less disclosure about exactly what is being done to the signal. In this context, the ADI-2 is tremendously good value.

ADI-2 pro fs be; UFX+; MADIfaceUSB; Startech active USB3 cable; Sonnet Allegro Pro adapter; Win11x64