Topic: ADAT And Clock

I have been expanding my BabyFace Pro FS with my Mbox Studio through ADAT once I get the Mbox setup to recieve clock from ADAT and a few other functions that need to be set and have a single ADAT connection from out of Mbox to In of BabyFace In the Fireface usb settings only option is to set clock source from optical to get BabyFace and Mbox to sync. Now I will disconnect the usb connection of Mbox to computer. Does this make the BabyFace Pro the clock source for both units since it is only interface connected to computer? Or is this strictly done between the BabyFace and Mbox ADAT connection?
When I run an ADAT loop (out to in/out to in) between these units I have option in FireFace usb settings to use internal clock source on the BabyFace it syncs just fine. Again I will disconnect the Mbox usb connection to computer use the Mbox as an expansion I/O.
Which way is the correct way to use the BabyFace's clock source. A single ADAT cable or 2 used in a loop?

Re: ADAT And Clock

If BF is clock master then two ADAT cables are needed between BF and Mbox. In that case Mbox must be set as clock slave receiving clock via ADAT. (That is why second cable is needed.)

If Mbox is clock master only one ADAT will do and BF must be set as clock slave receiving clock via ADAT.

If you do not intend to have Mbox connected all the time, it is better to have BF as master. If you change sampling frequency in BF Mbox will automatically set itself accordingly.

Re: ADAT And Clock

Thank you @ Kubrak I was thinking that was the case just wasn't positive.
I really appreciate your quick reply.

4 (edited by ramses 2024-08-20 13:04:53)

Re: ADAT And Clock

Kubrak wrote:

If BF is clock master, then two ADAT cables are needed between BF and Mbox. In that case, Mbox must be set as clock slave receiving clock via ADAT. (That is why second cable is needed.)

Sorry, but this is not correct.
In this example, BBF Pro is the clock master and transfers audio and clock information via ADAT to the Mbox.
The 2nd cable is only needed to transfer audio data from Mbox to BBF Pro, just in case this is wanted/needed.
From clock distribution perspective, there is no need for the 2nd cable.

Babyface is clock master (driver settings: clock source = "internal").
Mbox is clock slave to BBF Pro and receives clock via optical.

PC---USB---BBF Pro(cm)---ADAT--------------->Mbox(cs)      <--- this connection transfers digital audio data and clock
                                   \---ADAT<---------------/                   <--- optional for transport of digital audio data from Mbox to BBF Pro
cm=clock master
cs=clock slave

See also my blog article about clock synchronization to get an intro / overview about the topic:
https://www.tonstudio-forum.de/blog/ent … ios-en-de/


1handwondr wrote:

I have been expanding my BabyFace Pro FS with my Mbox Studio through ADAT once I get the Mbox setup to recieve clock from ADAT and a few other functions that need to be set and have a single ADAT connection from out of Mbox to In of BabyFace In the Fireface usb settings only option is to set clock source from optical to get BabyFace and Mbox to sync. Now I will disconnect the usb connection of Mbox to computer. Does this make the BabyFace Pro the clock source for both units since it is only interface connected to computer? Or is this strictly done between the BabyFace and Mbox ADAT connection?

In a digital setup, you require one clock master and only one is allowed.
The default setting for all interfaces is to use their clock as source, by this they are clock master.
In the RME driver settings, you will find as default "clock source = internal".
This means the internal clock will be used for AD and DA conversion.

For a clock slave, you need to configure the digital port as source, from where a valid clock signal can be received.

In your setup, I would recommend using the main interface as clock master.
With main interface, I mean the interface whose driver is loaded by audio applications.
Because then the sample rate is set by the application, the interface gets it automatically by the driver
and all connected clock saves will receive the clock automatically.
This is nice from an operational perspective.

The automatic switching of sample rate might have some limitations, though.
Switching between 44.1/48 kHz will work, but not between single, double, and quad speed
because with the ADAT protocol double and quad speed will be achieved by multiplexing 2 or 4 of the 8 channels for one audio stream and there is not something in the ADAT protocol header that tells the other side about this.
Auto detection of sample rate only works for SPDIF protocol (optical SPDIF, AES) or also MADI when using 96k frame format.

1handwondr wrote:

When I run an ADAT loop (out to in/out to in) between these units ...

This is not a loop, as the digital cable does not connect to the same interface.
Let's better say the two interfaces are connected via ADAT in both directions.

1handwondr wrote:

... I have option in FireFace usb settings to use internal clock source on the BabyFace it syncs just fine.

There are two status messages in the Babyface Pro driver settings: lock and synch.
"Lock" means that the interface has locked on the sample rate of another interface.
"Sync" means that an interface has detected its clock on a digital input.
In a bidirectional wiring, only "sync" is acceptable.

If in your case, the BBF Pro is configured as clock master (clock source internal)
and you see in the driver settings "sync" on the ADAT input, then you configured the other side correctly as slave,
otherwise, the BBF Pro could not receive its own clock signal on the ADAT input.

1handwondr wrote:

Again, I will disconnect the Mbox USB connection to computer use the Mbox as an expansion I/O.
Which way is the correct way to use the BabyFace's clock source. A single ADAT cable or 2 used in a loop?

As already mentioned, a single ADAT cable is fine to get the clock signal from clock master to clock slave.
The 2nd cable, you only need, if you want to transport audio from the Mbox inputs to the BBF Pro.

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub14

Re: ADAT And Clock

I meant it in the way that first cable is for audio (because there must be way to get audio from Mbox to BF in the both cases) and the additional one (the second) is used to get clock to Mbox.

And yes also audio may be transported to Mbox by that "second" one. But that was not the goal of OP.

For sure one could number the cables in reverse order. But if either one cable is used or two it seemed me better assign number one to the cable that is common to the both cases - Mbox out- BF in.

6 (edited by ramses 2024-08-20 12:57:04)

Re: ADAT And Clock

I would use such a setup as start point

+--------------------------------------------------------+
|                                                                        | optional USB connection to operate the device, if needed
|                                                                        |
PC---USB---BBF Pro(cm)---ADAT--------------->Mbox(cs)----Monitors / Headphones
                                   \---ADAT<---------------/             
cm=clock master
cs=clock slave

It appears that you want to perform the monitoring with the Mbox.
I propose using the BBF Pro FS as the main interface to have TotalMix FX as a flexible digital mixer on the PC side.
The driver of the main interface (BBF Pro FS) is being loaded by the applications.
Audio communication from/to Mbox only via ADAT through the BBF Pro FS.

As an option you may connect the Mbox via USB additionally, to operate / configure the unit if it has a control application.

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub14

Re: ADAT And Clock

Great information here I really appreciate it.
This is the setup the BBF Pro is sound source for pc so I can use Total Mix.
The Mbox is strictly an expansion and this is being done on windows and you all know the nightmare of usb drivers and windows so the Mbox gets disconnected. I have left the Mbox connected via usb to computer with no issues but better safe than sorry.
The Mbox was being used as a mobile recording source for a live situation Ive used it many times in this function and it has worked great. I needed more than 8 mic's and had the BBF Pro in my gig bag. I setup the out/in out/in ADAT method with BBf being clock source. Everything went great no issues somehow everything sounded way better than using only Mbox. I've been using RME gear in studio environment for years and know it is some of the best out there but this was literally night and day plus the mixing of the show was the easiest live mix Ive ever experienced probably because of Total Mix and the functionality it has.
I want to use this setup for my mobile gigs from here out so need to make sure everything is setup correctly.
I'm gathering from all this excellent info that the 2 ADAT cable method is what I need being the Mbox needs to use BBF clock source plus needs to send mic/line signal.
@Kubraka @ramses I really appreciate the info it has helped immensely think I understand quite bit more about ADAT and some terminology. Thank you very much.

Re: ADAT And Clock

Concerning ADAT it is simple. The signal goes just in one direction. And clock goes together with audio. So, if one needs send clock from one device to another he must use ADAT out from master and ADAT in to slave. Even if no audio goes from master to slave.

There cases when preamp does not have ADAT in. In that case one must set it as master, or use WC and set it slave.