1 Topic by TheNextInsect (edited by TheNextInsect 2024-09-06 04:06:30)

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Topic: [Solved] Babyface Pro with Cranborne 500ADAT

Hi,

I recently purchased and installed a Cranborne 500ADAT. It is connected to my Babyface Pro FS via ADAT. This should provide 8 channels of ADAT as it is set to 48K. When routing pre-recorded audio out of my DAW to the unit, to pass through 500 series modules, the audio goes out to TotalMix (meters move and audio can be heard)... but it does not return to the DAW (Ableton Live 12 or Cubase 13) and the inputs do not show any signal, even though the outputs do.

I thought I was doing something wrong, so I contacted Sweetwater support. During a remote session to my Mac (Sonoma 14.5) we discovered that in 'Audio MIDI Setup' in macOS, only AS1 and AS2 are active.
The other 6 ADAT channels are present, but the faders on them are locked (unusable). I was told this implies that the Babyface is in SPDIF mode.

I'm wondering if anyone has any suggestion on how to resolve this.
Steps taken so far:
Confirmed 'Optical Out' is set to ADAT in Fireface USB Settings Options section
Confirmed 'Clock Mode' Sample Rate is set to 48000 Hz in Fireface USB Settings with 'Clock Source' set to Optical In
Confirmed 'Current Clock' displays ADAT In
Confirmed 'Input Status': ADAT | Sync | 48kHz - in Fireface USB Settings
Updated Babyface Driver
Attempted to update Firmware, but was on current rev (forced it anyway)
Disconnected/reconnected ADAT cables
Disconnected/reconnected USB cable from Babyface to Mac
Multiple reboots
Confirmed dip switches on Cranborne 500ADAT are set to INTERNAL and 48K - making 500ADAT the Master

Any ideas or advice would be appreciated. Thanks

  • Kubrak
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Re: [Solved] Babyface Pro with Cranborne 500ADAT

I am not Mac user....

If BF is set to slave and reports clock lock, at least clock signal goes from 500ADAT. But audio signal probably does not go as TM shows nothing.

If signal goes from BF you may test, if you interconnect BF ADAT out and ADAT in. Tis way you also may test the both cables. In this case BF must be set as master.

There might be defective ADAT cable/connection from BF to 500ADAT, so that it does not receive signal. Or it gets signal, but something is wrong inside 500ADAT.

  • waedi
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Re: [Solved] Babyface Pro with Cranborne 500ADAT

MacOS system preferences / Security & Privacy / Microphone :
Be sure Ableton is listed and enabled for mic access (access to input channels )
Ableton is known for not enabling itself there.

M1-Sequoia, Madiface Pro, Digiface USB, Babyface silver and blue
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Re: [Solved] Babyface Pro with Cranborne 500ADAT

Thanks for your replies.

I switched the ADAT cables around and had the same result.

Babyface worked fine for a few years, it wasn’t until adding the ADAT500 that I had any issues, so nothing changed as far as mic/DAW/TotalMix permissions

  • waedi
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Re: [Solved] Babyface Pro with Cranborne 500ADAT

How is Audio-Midi-Setup looking ?
Are the Babyface channels visible there ?

M1-Sequoia, Madiface Pro, Digiface USB, Babyface silver and blue

6 Reply by MC

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Re: [Solved] Babyface Pro with Cranborne 500ADAT

1. When the optical input receives SPDIF it will say SPDIF Sync, not ADAT

2. There are no sliders on the input channels and 6 active sliders on the output channels in Audio MIDI Setup, no matter if set to ADAT or SPDIF.

3. You missed the most simple test: set BF to Internal clock, plug ADAT cable from out to in, send audio on those 8 channels and see the input channels show levels too.

4. If so - that rules out the BF completely, the Cranborne does not send audio, and you have to look there.

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME

MC's Website

  • Registered: 2022-09-05
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Re: [Solved] Babyface Pro with Cranborne 500ADAT

All the channels are present in 'Audio MIDI Setup'. The ADAT/SPDIF 1 and ADAT/SPDIF 2 channels, and all channels above them (AN 1, AN 2, PH 1 PH 2), can be adjusted. ADAT 3, ADAT 4, ADAT 5, ADAT 6, ADAT 7, and ADAT 8 are present... but they are locked at the minimum value.

On the Input tab of 'Audio MIDI Setup', all channels are present but cannot be adjusted... all are at minimum value.

While I can change the clock to Internal and reverse the ADAT connections, it causes the Opt light (on the input side on the Babyface faceplate) to pulse alternating between orange and green. This also causes the Babyface Outputs to disappear in 'Audio MIDI Setup'

When setup, as recommended by Cranborne (with RME as slave) the Opt light on the front of the Babyface is green and the channels are once again present in 'Audio MIDI Setup'.

8 Reply by waedi (edited by waedi 2024-08-24 07:45:31)

  • waedi
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Re: [Solved] Babyface Pro with Cranborne 500ADAT

Update Sonoma to 14.6.1 and update firmware of the Babyface
try

btw
the channels of the interface are all visible in Audio-Midi-Setup and the slider is locked, thats normal.
For the cable loopback test what signal did you send to the Adat output channels ?
From a software playback channel ? (good)
From Adat inputs ? (very bad)

M1-Sequoia, Madiface Pro, Digiface USB, Babyface silver and blue
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Re: [Solved] Babyface Pro with Cranborne 500ADAT

I did try updating firmware of the RME, it was current, but I forced the update anyway. I reinstalled the driver too. Did both with the Sweetwater tech still on the phone.

I can definitely try updating Sonoma. I’ll report back if it changes anything.

10 Reply by TheNextInsect (edited by TheNextInsect 2024-08-24 08:02:42)

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Re: [Solved] Babyface Pro with Cranborne 500ADAT

Software Playback meters in TotalMix are moving as expected. The DAW shows active outputs as well. The inputs, in TotalMix and DAW (though different, hardware vs. software, I know) are not active. The DAW and TotalMix appear fine in regard to audio sent out of the DAW… It’s after that the trouble starts.

The compressor on ADAT 5 I’m using for testing (since it has a VU meter) and the DerrEsser on ADAT 3 show no indication that audio ever arrives to them. I can set either out in the DAW and see metering movement and I can also see either in the corresponding TotalMix Software Playback channels - ADAT 5 and ADAT 3. I can also hear the audio clip on my monitors, if I route those channels to the Main out…  So I know the outbound audio signal makes it at least as far as TotalMix.

The sliders are locked as Inputs in Audio MIDI Setup, but on the Output side only the ADAT 3-8 are locked. The others can be moved with a mouse

  • waedi
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Re: [Solved] Babyface Pro with Cranborne 500ADAT

Have you routed the playback channels Adat3 and Adat5 to the hardware output channels Adat3 and Adat5 ?

M1-Sequoia, Madiface Pro, Digiface USB, Babyface silver and blue

12 Reply by MC

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Re: [Solved] Babyface Pro with Cranborne 500ADAT

TheNextInsect wrote:

While I can change the clock to Internal and reverse the ADAT connections

That's not what I meant:

Plug ONE ADAT cable from BF out back to BF in (loopback cabling) - is that more clear?

Then send audio on those 8 channels and see if the TM FX input channels show levels too.

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME

MC's Website

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Re: [Solved] Babyface Pro with Cranborne 500ADAT

waedi wrote:

Have you routed the playback channels Adat3 and Adat5 to the hardware output channels Adat3 and Adat5 ?

Good question!

UCX - FF 400 - Babyface pro - Digiface USB - ADI-2 (original)
Mac mini M1 - Macbook pro - iPad Air2

14 Reply by TheNextInsect (edited by TheNextInsect 2024-08-25 07:50:05)

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Re: [Solved] Babyface Pro with Cranborne 500ADAT

MC wrote:
TheNextInsect wrote:

While I can change the clock to Internal and reverse the ADAT connections

That's not what I meant:

Plug ONE ADAT cable from BF out back to BF in (loopback cabling) - is that more clear?

Then send audio on those 8 channels and see if the TM FX input channels show levels too.

When I do this, I still see an active meter in the DAW outbound to (ADAT 5) the channel I am using for testing. Back in TotalMix, only the Software Playback channel (for ADAT 5) is indicating a signal via the meter.


oli77sch wrote:
waedi wrote:

Have you routed the playback channels Adat3 and Adat5 to the hardware output channels Adat3 and Adat5 ?

Good question!

Yes. Nothing changes.

I updated to the latest version of Sonoma, 14.6.1, but this made no difference

15 Reply by TheNextInsect (edited by TheNextInsect 2024-08-25 07:59:57)

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Re: [Solved] Babyface Pro with Cranborne 500ADAT

I noticed that in 'Audio MIDI Setup' *Output* if I move ADAT/SPDIF 1, it is glitchy and also moves ADAT/SPDIF 2. The inverse is true too, each fader (ADAT/SPDIF 1 or ADAT/SPDIF 2)... moves the other. I use the term "moves" because 'controls' would be misleading... the movement is glitchy, uneven in increments, and in no way smooth.

And, as stated previously, I cannot move ADAT 3-8, so I cannot see if this behavior is similar with the other ADAT channels.

Everything I just typed in this reply is true with the Clock Source set to Internal and using 'loopback cabling' as well as with the Clock Sources set to 'Optical In' and the cables connected normally.

16 Reply by waedi (edited by waedi 2024-08-25 10:48:36)

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Re: [Solved] Babyface Pro with Cranborne 500ADAT

TheNextInsect wrote:

When I do this, I still see an active meter in the DAW outbound to (ADAT 5) the channel I am using for testing. Back in TotalMix, only the Software Playback channel (for ADAT 5) is indicating a signal via the meter.

The Loopback test failed or was done not proper.
The DAW is not interesting for this, we look only in Totalmix.
The clock-mode is internal.
You have signal in the software playback, good.
You have to route this signal to all Adat output channels.
All hardware output channels Adat 1 to 8 showing the signal.
Make sure this is working. You may lift up all those faders by doubleclick.
Then connect the 1 toslink cable to the two toslink sockets.
Now see in Totalmix top row hardware input channels Adat 1 to 8.
Are the signals visible there ? The same signal as software playback channel.
Please perform this loopback test step by step and report.

M1-Sequoia, Madiface Pro, Digiface USB, Babyface silver and blue
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Re: [Solved] Babyface Pro with Cranborne 500ADAT

I performed the test again on my Mac Studio. I used both TOSLINK cables to perform the test twice with each cable.

Using either cable, and with the clock set to Internal, I was able to send audio to the BBF via each ADAT channel (1-8) and see the signal across all the rows in TotalMix - Hardware Inputs, Software Playback, and Hardware Inputs.

I also took a MacBook with macOS Monterey, where the RME driver/TotalMix had never been installed previously, and performed the tests again using that computer. I got the same result with all 3 rows of ADAT channels showing active metering in TotalMix.

After performing that test and reconnecting the 500ADAT to the Babyface using the TOSLINK link cables, I tested with Babyface still connected using a DAW installed on the MacBook (Live 11) and had the same result - where the outgoing signal never appears to pass to the 500ADAT unit and does not show as active at the DAW external input level.

  • Kubrak
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Re: [Solved] Babyface Pro with Cranborne 500ADAT

You have verified that BF works, that routing in TM is correct and that the both ADAT cables are OK.

So, problem has to be, most probably, in setting or HW of 500ADAT.

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Re: [Solved] Babyface Pro with Cranborne 500ADAT

Kubrak wrote:

You have verified that BF works, that routing in TM is correct and that the both ADAT cables are OK.

So, problem has to be, most probably, in setting or HW of 500ADAT.

Agreed.

I want ahead and un-racked the 500ADAT and set the dip switches to use the RME as clock master. In this configuration it works.

So, we have reached out to Cranborne support to see if this can be resolved or if the unit will need to be replaced.

Thanks to all who tried to assist.
Apologies if my skillsets with TotalMix and ADAT were subpar and made communication difficult. I appreciate your continued efforts. For what it’s worth, I learned a lot during this experience and I’m grateful for the knowledge

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Re: [Solved] Babyface Pro with Cranborne 500ADAT

Circling back on this to report the solution, in case anyone else ever comes looking for the same info…

With 500ADAT set to Master and BBF set to Slave, you *must* power on the Cranborne unit LAST. Failing to do so results in no audio passing through the modules and/or back into the DAW.

You can even power cycle it while the (in my case) Mac and RME/TotalMix are on. Booting it first can/will result in wasting hours of time troubleshooting as above. Cranborne and their manual, currently, will not tell you this.

Just make sure dip switches are set to Internal and your preferred sample rate (48k or 41k for 8 channels) if using the ADAT500 as Clock Master

Note: With BBF as Master, no issues at all.

  • waedi
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Re: [Solved] Babyface Pro with Cranborne 500ADAT

TheNextInsect wrote:

With 500ADAT set to Master and BBF set to Slave, you *must* power on the Cranborne unit LAST. Failing to do so results in no audio passing through the modules and/or back into the DAW.

This makes no sense !
Can't wait to read an explanation from Cranborne to this.

M1-Sequoia, Madiface Pro, Digiface USB, Babyface silver and blue

22 Reply by TheNextInsect (edited by TheNextInsect 2024-09-09 01:56:45)

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Re: [Solved] Babyface Pro with Cranborne 500ADAT

I don’t even know if they know…
Sweetwater does, now, and have added it to their notes on the unit.

But, thank you… your reply just confirms that I’m not alone in my thinking. I can’t figure out how master should be last in the sequence logically. Ironically, it’s helpful… because starting it first before logging into my Mac would put the sync into schisms. TotalMix doesn’t load until after you sign in to your Mac profile, so ADAT500 and the Babyface cannot fully communicate until then

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Thanks again for your help