1 Topic by ramses (edited by ramses 2024-08-24 11:20:15)

  • ramses
  • DAW Mastermind
  • Online
  • From: UTC+1
  • Registered: 2012-10-14
  • Posts: 13,182

Topic: ADI-2 FS R BE, SRC in AD/DA mode doesn't work with USB plugged

I experimented today with SRC.
The ADI-2 Pro FS R BE is configured in AD/DA mode.

The aim is to use the SRC of the ADI-2 Pro FS R BE to convert audio of any sample rate to 192 kHz.

It only works when I keep USB disconnected, but then I can't use the ADI-2 Remote.
The issue, as soon as I connect the USB connection the sample rate of ADI-2 goes from 192 to 44.1 kHz
and it is not possible to change the sample rate to 192 kHz, although SRC is enabled and clock is set to internal.

I think the problem is here, that the ADI-2 gets via USB the sample rate from the ASIO driver. But why?

I would like to perform SRC to 192 kHz, but also want to keep the ADI-2 Pro operable via ADI-2 Remote.

Do you have any idea how to solve this?


The setup

Main interface is UFX III (clock master), ADI-2 Pro FS R BE is set to AD/DA mode and connected via SPDIF.

MusicBee Player (with ASIO support)
|
PC---USB3----------UFX III (cm)
\                              OUT IN
  \                              |    | SPDIF(o)
   \                     SRC |    |
    \                          OUT IN
     \---USB2(*)------ADI-2 Pro FS R BE (cm, 192 kHz)

(*) only for management using ADI-Remote

Windows 10 Pro 22H2
MADIface driver 0.9843
ADI-2 Pro Firmware v128

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub14

2 Reply by KaiS (edited by KaiS 2024-08-24 11:20:41)

  • KaiS
  • DAW Mastermind
  • Offline
  • From: Germany
  • Registered: 2020-02-05
  • Posts: 3,523

Re: ADI-2 FS R BE, SRC in AD/DA mode doesn't work with USB plugged

USB on ADI-2 always dominates the clock.
Therefore ADI-2 isn’t truly clock master with USB connected, but follows the PC‘s sample rate.

Maybe you could configure a secondary source inside the PC to play at 192 kHz to ADI-2’s USB.
I’m not sure that’s possible, possibly “outside” ASIO.

KaiS's Website

  • ramses
  • DAW Mastermind
  • Online
  • From: UTC+1
  • Registered: 2012-10-14
  • Posts: 13,182

Re: ADI-2 FS R BE, SRC in AD/DA mode doesn't work with USB plugged

KaiS wrote:

USB on ADI-2 always dominates the clock.
Therefore ADI-2 isn’t truly clock master, but follows the PC‘s sample rate.

Maybe you could configure a secondary source inside the PC to play at 192 kHz to ADI-2’s USB.
I’m not sure that’s possible, possibly “outside” ASIO.

Many thanks, Kai. Already assumed something like that.

I wanted to try SRC to avoid the frequency roll-off of some D/A filter, as nearly all of my content has 44.1 kHz.

I think then I keep using ADI-2 Remote and drop my plans to use SRC. I am not disturbed by the rolloff.

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub14

4 Reply by KaiS (edited by KaiS 2024-08-24 13:03:34)

  • KaiS
  • DAW Mastermind
  • Offline
  • From: Germany
  • Registered: 2020-02-05
  • Posts: 3,523

Re: ADI-2 FS R BE, SRC in AD/DA mode doesn't work with USB plugged

We had that several times here in the forum.

You can’t improve a track by lifting it to a higher sample rate.
Content above Nyquist frequency is lost forever.

SRC has an anti-aliasing filter built, tuned to the input sample rate.
So you even can’t bypass the filter.

On playback with ADI-2 you can at least choose the filter shape to your liking.

KaiS's Website

  • Kubrak
  • DAW Mastermind
  • Offline
  • Registered: 2023-08-03
  • Posts: 548

Re: ADI-2 FS R BE, SRC in AD/DA mode doesn't work with USB plugged

KaiS do you know how AD is done in ADI-2 ?

I found on AKM web that digital filter is used in AD chip. And one may choose the one that suits him.... But it raises question what sampling rate is used internally. It would have to be significantly higher, say double the resulting sampling rate, so that everything works well (no aliasing).

Or is there also set of analog filters before A/D?

6 Reply by ramses (edited by ramses 2024-08-24 13:38:06)

  • ramses
  • DAW Mastermind
  • Online
  • From: UTC+1
  • Registered: 2012-10-14
  • Posts: 13,182

Re: ADI-2 FS R BE, SRC in AD/DA mode doesn't work with USB plugged

KaiS wrote:

We had that several times here in the forum.

You can’t improve a track by lifting it to a higher sample rate.
Content above Nyquist frequency is lost forever.

SRC has an anti-aliasing filter built, tuned to the input sample rate.
So you even can’t bypass the filter.

On playback with ADI-2 you can at least choose the filter shape to your liking.

As I said it was not about increasing quality by upsampling, then you misunderstood me.

All that I wanted to achieve is to shift the treble roll off for single speed audio content and
when using the slow filter into the non-audible area over 20 kHz.

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub14
  • KaiS
  • DAW Mastermind
  • Offline
  • From: Germany
  • Registered: 2020-02-05
  • Posts: 3,523

Re: ADI-2 FS R BE, SRC in AD/DA mode doesn't work with USB plugged

ramses wrote:

…All that I wanted to achieve is to shift the treble roll off for single speed audio content and
when using the slow filter into the non-audible area over 20 kHz.

With upsampling you could indeed remove the DA-filte’rs treble rolloff.

Unfortunately this won’t bring you any further, as you’re stuck with the SRC’s filter.
This is a variant of the “Sharp”-filter, which has an optimization towards linear frequency response on cost of transient response.


The best approach likely is:
Use the “Slow”-filter at 44.1 kHz and try the compensation EQ you can find here:
https://forum.rme-audio.de/viewtopic.ph … 26#p130026

This gives you best of both, linear freq.- and good transient-response.

The Slow-filter’s better - read higher - transients anyway already lead to more perceived treble, even with the slight treble rolloff.

KaiS's Website

  • ramses
  • DAW Mastermind
  • Online
  • From: UTC+1
  • Registered: 2012-10-14
  • Posts: 13,182

Re: ADI-2 FS R BE, SRC in AD/DA mode doesn't work with USB plugged

Thanks Kai. This is exactly what I do now.

But the filter is static, there is no automatism to apply such a filter only for a certain sample rate.

It was an experiment whether I can improve to get rid of a filter that needs to be applied and removed manually.

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub14

9 Reply by KaiS (edited by KaiS 2024-08-25 06:38:26)

  • KaiS
  • DAW Mastermind
  • Offline
  • From: Germany
  • Registered: 2020-02-05
  • Posts: 3,523

Re: ADI-2 FS R BE, SRC in AD/DA mode doesn't work with USB plugged

ramses wrote:

… the filter is static, there is no automatism to apply such a filter only for a certain sample rate.

It was an experiment whether I can improve to get rid of a filter that needs to be applied and removed manually.

@MC:
This could become an additional function:

“DA-filter compensation”.

KaiS's Website

  • ramses
  • DAW Mastermind
  • Online
  • From: UTC+1
  • Registered: 2012-10-14
  • Posts: 13,182

Re: ADI-2 FS R BE, SRC in AD/DA mode doesn't work with USB plugged

Sounds nice wink

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub14
  • Registered: 2014-07-17
  • Posts: 108

Re: ADI-2 FS R BE, SRC in AD/DA mode doesn't work with USB plugged

KaiS wrote:
ramses wrote:

… the filter is static, there is no automatism to apply such a filter only for a certain sample rate.

It was an experiment whether I can improve to get rid of a filter that needs to be applied and removed manually.

@MC:
This could become an additional function:

“DA-filter compensation”.


Yes, please!!

Windows 11 / Nuendo 12 / UFX+ / M-1610 Pro / ADI-2 Pro FS R / Sonnet USB 3.0 PCIe