• Registered: 2024-08-31
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Topic: ADI 2 DAC FS dsd display

Hey all,
Just got my first RME product... ADI 2 DAC FS
When I listen to a DSD file (I use Audirvana, and my computer is connected to the RME via usb)
the screen says 2 things I don't understand...

1) the word INT appears on the bottom right of the screen
2) the sample rate shows as 176.4

Can someone tell me what INT means? And why it does not say DSD64 or some other indicator to me that the handling of DSD is native, and NOT converted to PCM? 176.4 really throws me off... not even sure what it is telling me here. Is there some conversion?

Anyone have info, specifically on display options for the screen concerning DSD playback and could help me understand what I am seeing and why?

Would greatly appreciate it.

For reference, my setup: Audirvana / Qobuz / Synology NAS
MacBook Pro > USB to RME > Schiit Saga+ Preamp > Schiit Lokius EQ > Fisher 500c Receiver/Amp > JBL 4311b

  • ramses
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Re: ADI 2 DAC FS dsd display

See manual 14.1.2.

When connected via USB, the device uses its FS clock for D/A conversion.

More information on clock synchronization and other topics like SteadyClock FS here in my blog:
https://www.tonstudio-forum.de/blog/ent … ios-en-de/

What display options are unclear?

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub14

3 Reply by MC

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Re: ADI 2 DAC FS dsd display

DSD display is in chapter 15.3. And the display and the sample rates with DSD listed and explained in chapter 17.1.

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME

MC's Website

  • Registered: 2024-08-31
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Re: ADI 2 DAC FS dsd display

MC wrote:

DSD display is in chapter 15.3. And the display and the sample rates with DSD listed and explained in chapter 17.1.

Thank you for getting back to me on this. Appreciate it, especially as a brand new user (just got this item today).
So the sample rates it displays on the screen are just its own sort of internal interpretation of DSD values?
As in, DSD64 will just show as 176.4 over USB, but is not actually being converted to PCM?

Forgive all the questions...I just have a fairly large library of ripped SACD to DSF files and have been really interested in a great DAC that can handle DSD playback natively. (And maybe I don't even know what I am saying when I say "native").

It does seem a relative bummer that all extra features/functions of the DAC/processor are essentially turned off during DSD playback for headphones. Seems an output stage would just be an output stage, and could carry the processed signal either way. Feels like you lose half your device when wanting to use headphones.

Anyway, thanks for this conversation... any insight you can give me to some of my questions would be awesome.
Peace

  • Registered: 2024-08-31
  • Posts: 4

Re: ADI 2 DAC FS dsd display

ramses wrote:

What display options are unclear?

At first I was not clear on what INT meant on the display. Apparently that means the DAC is using its internal clock.
I'm such a noob at this stuff, I am sure I don't know the difference between what kinds of clocks do what, or even what that means. I suppose I expected a DAC to display something like "PCM 44.1" or "DSD64" or "PCM 192kHz" or something along those lines.
So figuring out how to read what I am looking at to gain insight on what file type is playing at any given time is a touch confusing.

I have received some good referrals to sections in the manual on this forum that have proved useful. I just wish some of the display info was a little more customizable/configurable.

Thanks again for your reply, and the link to your blog. Very cool!

6 Reply by ramses (edited by ramses 2024-08-31 13:14:38)

  • ramses
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Re: ADI 2 DAC FS dsd display

You need a precise, jitter free clock as a reference signal for transmission of digital data and to perform AD/DA conversion.

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub14
  • KaiS
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Re: ADI 2 DAC FS dsd display

giantporpoise wrote:

…have been really interested in a great DAC that can handle DSD playback natively.
…
It does seem a relative bummer that all extra features/functions of the DAC/processor are essentially turned off during DSD playback for headphones.

This is not an RME limitation, but one inherent to the DSD format:

In general, no direct (native) digital processing is possible on DSD, not even volume control.


ADI-2 partly circumvents the latter by using a DAC chip’s function (manual chapter 17.2)
But all the DSP functions need a PCM signal to work with.


If you want to use the DSP, real time conversion of DSD to PCM should be possible in Audirvana.
The sound advantage of ADI-2’s DSP functions can by far outweigh any possible native DSD handling’s.

giantporpoise wrote:

Seems an output stage would just be an output stage, and could carry the processed signal either way. Feels like you lose half your device when wanting to use headphones.

DSP (as the name Digital Signal Processing suggests) does it’s magic in the digital domain, not in the analog output stage, which is the first point where a non DSD-signal exists with native DSD.

KaiS's Website

  • Registered: 2023-06-30
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Re: ADI 2 DAC FS dsd display

giantporpoise wrote:

I'm such a noob at this stuff

Excuse me (I don't want to look rude), but why bother with DSD in this case? If you are a newbie to digital audio, then you'd better stay away from non-PCM formats. And when you gain some experience, then you'd know that DSD has no benefits whatsoever compared to PCM, only disadvantages smile The only case where DSD could theoretically be preferred is when you play content that was recorded in DSD in the first place, which I doubt there are any released commercially.

In short, I don't care for DSD, and neither should you. It's a format that was introduced as a sort of DRM scheme marketed as if it had some value, but it's nothing more than a gimmick.

Fireface UCX II + ARC USB > ADI-2 Pro FS R BE > Neumann KH 750 DSP + MA 1 > KH 120 A

9 Reply by KaiS (edited by KaiS 2024-08-31 17:13:12)

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Re: ADI 2 DAC FS dsd display

unpluggged wrote:

…but why bother with DSD in this case?

He already got a bigger library of SACD ripped DSD files.

KaiS's Website

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Re: ADI 2 DAC FS dsd display

unpluggged wrote:
giantporpoise wrote:

I'm such a noob at this stuff

Excuse me (I don't want to look rude), but why bother with DSD in this case? If you are a newbie to digital audio, then you'd better stay away from non-PCM formats. And when you gain some experience, then you'd know that DSD has no benefits whatsoever compared to PCM, only disadvantages smile The only case where DSD could theoretically be preferred is when you play content that was recorded in DSD in the first place, which I doubt there are any released commercially.

In short, I don't care for DSD, and neither should you. It's a format that was introduced as a sort of DRM scheme marketed as if it had some value, but it's nothing more than a gimmick.

Not a noob to digital audio, new to how the RME dac works. And I know, I know... one day when I grow up I will realize all the things you said about DSD. Anyway... I have a fairly large library of ripped SACD, and I like the way they sound... Your opinion is that this library offers me only disadvantages? That's fine. But its what I have, and I just want to know that my DSD is not being converted... that's all.

And I may tend even to agree with you about the launching of all these "new" formats that say they offer something "better"... I think I have probably landed on the concept that your good old fashioned (I supposed its old enough now) Redbook CD is about as good as it gets in terms of digital music. (Provided it was mastered at a time when mastering actually mattered and was done from analog sources and transferred properly). But I do like to nerd out a little with the idea of hi-res pcm and dsd, just for kicks.

At least now, from all the help here in the forums, and a good study of the manual + some hands-on with the unit, I have a pretty good idea of how everything works (at a baseline anyway, not into deep waters yet with DSP etc). I should be fine from here.

11 Reply by MC

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Re: ADI 2 DAC FS dsd display

giantporpoise wrote:
MC wrote:

DSD display is in chapter 15.3. And the display and the sample rates with DSD listed and explained in chapter 17.1.

Thank you for getting back to me on this. Appreciate it, especially as a brand new user (just got this item today).
So the sample rates it displays on the screen are just its own sort of internal interpretation of DSD values?
As in, DSD64 will just show as 176.4 over USB, but is not actually being converted to PCM?

Here sample rate has nothing to do with converted or not. Think of sample rate as the underlying frequency the whole hardware works with. A DSD signal needs to be transferred some way, and that way will use a specific frequency to transfer the data. Some implementations can transfer the data in half the frequency by putting them into 32 bit blocks. We use smaller blocks and double the sample rate instead. The DSD data transmitted is still the same in both cases.

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME

MC's Website

  • Registered: 2022-02-05
  • Posts: 31

Re: ADI 2 DAC FS dsd display

I think the set up menu shows exactly what DSD scale is being played

MC wrote:
giantporpoise wrote:
MC wrote:

DSD display is in chapter 15.3. And the display and the sample rates with DSD listed and explained in chapter 17.1.

Thank you for getting back to me on this. Appreciate it, especially as a brand new user (just got this item today).
So the sample rates it displays on the screen are just its own sort of internal interpretation of DSD values?
As in, DSD64 will just show as 176.4 over USB, but is not actually being converted to PCM?

Here sample rate has nothing to do with converted or not. Think of sample rate as the underlying frequency the whole hardware works with. A DSD signal needs to be transferred some way, and that way will use a specific frequency to transfer the data. Some implementations can transfer the data in half the frequency by putting them into 32 bit blocks. We use smaller blocks and double the sample rate instead. The DSD data transmitted is still the same in both cases.