Topic: Shop offering calibrated Behringer ECM-8000 with REW .req file

This shop offers different measurement mics and solutions and gave a good overview via phone.
https://www.akustik-messen.de/index.php/en/

According to Mr. Jordan, the cheap Behringer ECM-8000 measurement microphone is only sufficient for lower frequency corrections. I think this is a good offer for a good calibrated Behringer:
https://www.akulap.de/joomla/index.php/ … iew/17/177

However, for accurate correction of frequencies around 6 or 8 kHz, you should get at least a Beyerdynamic MM1 (€239), which comes with a manufacturer’s calibration document, but not with an REW .req file.
Higher-quality measurement microphones cost €800 or more.

The Sonarworks measurement mic looks similar to the Behringer ECM-8000, so I expect the precision not to be much better.

In general, better results can be achieved through room optimization, and for this purpose, the REW solution can be helpful.

Correction using only DSP software without room treatment has the drawback that it applies only to one spot in the room. Even solutions claiming to measure multiple spots are not truly accurate. Its better to "tame" the room first. If then a little correction is needed, the remaining issues can be better solved by a DSP based solution.

So, if you have various issues in your room, it might be better to combine room optimization with measurements for DSP optimization, as this will likely lead to a more natural-sounding result compared to purely measurement-based solutions.

I've already experienced that a fully flat frequency curve often sounds bad, kind of overprocessed. I compensated for this by adjusting the dry/wet knob in Sonarworks to 50%, making it sound more natural to my ears and keeping EQ corrections within -6dB. This way, you get a good compromise that might sound better and cleaner in the low frequency area compared to listening in a completely untreated room. But it remains a compromise.

I intend to use Sonarworks only for correction in the bass/deep mid-area, maybe up to 800 Hz. Better than nothing at all, I think currently the best compromise for me compared to fully untreated.
The exported data includes Q-factors, which are useful for RoomEQ and can be imported.
Otherwise, I won’t use Sonarworks as a VST or as a system-wide compensation, as it might create wrong results if I forget to disable it when doing down mixes in the DAW, broadcasting, or gaming.

That's my idea of a viable compromise, your mileage may vary.

Only wanted to let you know some ideas and that there is a competent shop, which you can ask regarding purchase of a measurement mic. They also program their measurement solutions.

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub14

Re: Shop offering calibrated Behringer ECM-8000 with REW .req file

Just some thoughts.

Almost any kind of calibration file can be used with rew. Mostly naming conventions (extension) and type of delimiter.

One of the most popular solutions for use with rew is the minidsp range of mics (https://www.minidsp.de/messequipment/) that come with an individual calibration file. Just for the fun of it I recently aquired a dayton audio IMM 6c to do spl measurements with my phone, which also comes with a calibration file. https://www.soundimports.eu/de/dayton-audio-imm-6c.html

The IMM 6c should also work great with programs like housecurve.

I see absolutely no reason why these should not be usable for corrections between 6 or 8 kHz. Wonder what the reasoning is behind this. I would never touch frequencies above say 300 Hz for room correction, though.

Having said that, I own a MM1 as well as the Neumann mesurement kit for their dsp speakers. Both come with calibration files that can be used with any kind of software that allows for calibration files.

Since aquiring a pair of Genelec 8361 I use the mic included with the GLM kit.

3 (edited by ramses 2024-09-02 19:41:03)

Re: Shop offering calibrated Behringer ECM-8000 with REW .req file

Hi Joachim,

thanks for your kind response.

If I recall correctly, the reason is the small capsule of the Behringer.

Do you perhaps know a software that also shows the Q-values for RoomEQ?

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub14

Re: Shop offering calibrated Behringer ECM-8000 with REW .req file

ramses wrote:

If I recall correctly, the reason is the small capsule of the Behringer.

That does not make sense imho. Small diaphragms can offer an excellent transient / extended high frequency response (way beyond human hearing).  Measurement mics of the highest quality use small capsule sizes between 1/4" - 1/2".

5 (edited by ramses 2024-09-02 21:56:04)

Re: Shop offering calibrated Behringer ECM-8000 with REW .req file

Just found out that there are indeed interesting USB measuring mics available.
Also some more expensive ones with integrated calibration.

The website also contains a lot of interesting background information:
https://www.akustik-messen.de/index.php … nformation

Another discovery, Sonarworks doesn't support USB mics: https://support.sonarworks.com/hc/en-us … 4PJ80M09DY

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub14

6 (edited by ramses 2024-09-03 13:11:09)

Re: Shop offering calibrated Behringer ECM-8000 with REW .req file

joachim.herbert wrote:

[ Regarding Behringer ECM-8000 ]
I see absolutely no reason why these should not be usable for corrections between 6 or 8 kHz. Wonder what the reasoning is behind this. I would never touch frequencies above say 300 Hz for room correction, though.

Hi Joachim, I asked Mr. Jordan and got a prompt reply.

I offered him to post his answer in the forum, to save him time, so I quote directly from his e-mail:

Das ECM8000 geht auch für höhere Frequenzen, aber nicht jedes.
Grund ist die erhebliche Exemplarstreuung, da liegen manche ECM8000 um 5dB daneben bei 8Khz.
Beim MM1 findet eine bessere Selektion statt, die Kapseln an sich sind sehr ähnlich.
Prinzipbedingt sind die Resonanzen nicht bei tieferen Frequenzen, das können alle mics.

Translation by deepl.com:
The ECM8000 also works for higher frequencies, but not every one.
The reason for this is the considerable scattering of the specimens, some ECM8000s are 5dB off at 8Khz.
The MM1 has a better selection, the capsules themselves are very similar.
In principle, the resonances are not at lower frequencies, all mics can do that.

I hope this clarifies the statement for you.

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub14