Topic: Seeking solution for digital noise on Analog Outs - HDSPe AIO Pro

Hi all,
Im looking for the best path forward for CPU/digital noise comming from the
Analog Outs and Headphone Output of my HDSPe AIO Pro.

I note that there are many posts on this forum concerning this, but i have
not yet located any resolution. I have tried the grounding fix which has
helped many users, by insulating the cards metal connector from the PC case
but this did not resolve the problem.

I am using a new DAW, built from scratch with all new components, decent CoolerMaster
80+ PSU, and minimal components, Two NVME drives, One GT710 GPU running on an i5 12600.

I initially thought the problem may be caused by local ground loops or another
ground wiring problem, so I have removed all unnecessary devices, used all new power cords,
UPS and have even tested their earth pins to confirm they are all connected, from the same outlet,
and when I check the Headphone and analog outs with the PC at idle, i still hear flickering
digital interference, which becomes worse when i play a quiet song, its like you
can hear it buffering chunks of the song every 5-10 seconds, and can even hear it at
around 20-30% volume.

So my question is, does anyone have any practical steps i can try for eliminating
this before i move further? I have seen things like disabling hardware acceleration
in browsers which have cleared up similar problems, but in this case, im just using
VLC player, and cubase 13, and the noise remains identical in both.

I would even be open in the worst case to purchase a Digital Outboard device of some description,
but i cannot prove that the noise is only on the analog outs, and wouldnt just transfer
to a new expensive outboard box.

Any ideas are most welcome, and thank you in advance for the assistance~

Re: Seeking solution for digital noise on Analog Outs - HDSPe AIO Pro

Hello again,
As an addendum to this , I have proven that the noise i am hearing is NOT appearing on the Analog Inputs.
Therefore i am considering moving forward using the digital outs of this interface for monitoring only.
Since I have no such D/A gear to test with,  I have three questions:

1) can anyone please confirm , who has had this problem, who has then used the digital outs on the affected interface, that the noise does NOT appear on the other digital in/outputs ?

2) Iv never used D/A gear for monitoring in the past, so would a unit like the RME ADI-2 FS work easily with the HDSPe
for output monitoring using just 2 powered speakers (Yamaha HS80s) and Headphones?

3) (i searched for a while but couldnt answer this:) When you plug headphones into the ADI-2 FS , does it turn off
the rear analog outputs (speakers) so i hear only headphones OR speakers? Or do they constantly operate at the same time?

Many thanks, I know the D/A questions are different from the HDSP forum topic, but technically, they
are resolving the initial problem.

Thanks for bearing with me once again~
~Ht

3 (edited by ramses 2024-09-14 09:45:07)

Re: Seeking solution for digital noise on Analog Outs - HDSPe AIO Pro

Is the AIO Pro new? Can you talk to the seller, whether he could exchange it with another device like
e.g. ADI-2 DAC FS or ADI-2 Pro FS?

Alternatively, sell it you should at minimum 80% of the street price back if it is brand new.

The reference converters additionally give you many useful additional features. Do you know these devices?

If a similar problem should appear (in rare cases) on USB, then you can use USB isolators to get rid of the problem.
A couple of days or weeks we had a few suggestions which products shall work well and are quite inexpensive.
See this posting from MC: https://forum.rme-audio.de/viewtopic.ph … 03#p223103

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub14

Re: Seeking solution for digital noise on Analog Outs - HDSPe AIO Pro

Hi DAW Mastermind,
Thanks for the reply. Yes this card is brand new, from a dedicated physical audio store,
but i bought it as part of my new DAW rig piece-by-piece(over $3000 AU in total), so it was
a few months ago now by the time iv got all the parts together and up and running, which
is outside of the return policy unfortunately (my bad) tongue
However, I would really prefer to use an internal interface, and i am convinced of the majesty
of the HDSPe in the week iv had it up and running, the lack of latency is phenomenal, iv heard
some of these project tracks a thousand times, but this is clearly better, it sounds brilliant,
and soft/firmware works flawlessly (cubase 13), so im just not prepared to give up on it
due to the analog outs.
As suggested above, there is no noise on the Ins, and all of my work is done in-DAW, and i only need
to record one instrument In at a time, so its perfect. I only need the analog Outs due to my desk,
but that wont last forever, i am convinced this is an earth/grounding problem, its just not in a place
(direct from the ports) that i can use a ground lift/filter or similar, and there is no noise on any
mixdowns that i have done so far, so its just the analog outs.
If i can use a box like the ADI-2 FS as i specified above for digital out, then im personally
well prepared to try going down that road, it will meet my needs precisely.
Would the ADI-2 FS work with the HDSP (technically) in this way as a monitor out?
If so, i will get one next month, and get this ship underway.
Thanks again,
~Ht

5 (edited by ramses 2024-09-14 11:53:29)

Re: Seeking solution for digital noise on Analog Outs - HDSPe AIO Pro

Does it make a difference if you connect all devices to one multiple socket strip, best with surge protection and net filter?

I am successfully using products from Brennenstuhl for over 15 years: https://www.brennenstuhl.com/en-DE/prod … vv-f-3g1-5

You can integrate the reference converter into your setup via ADAT/SPDIF, I described it here in my blog:
https://www.tonstudio-forum.de/blog/Ent … our-Setup/

Regarding the different models which are available:
https://forum.rme-audio.de/viewtopic.php?id=32506

Some more information about the reference converters here:
https://www.tonstudio-forum.de/blog/Ent … ses-EN-DE/

ADI-2 FS will also work, I personally would prefer to have the special features of an ADI-2 DAC or Pro FS like:
- different reference levels
- auto ref level: automatical switching between the (4-5) reference levels to keep SNR/Dynamic high over a wider vol range
  See my excel here which illustrates that: https://www.tonstudio-forum.de/attachme … v004-xlsx/
- dynamic loudness
- ear protection by ramp-up of volumes when plugging headphones or switching between monitors and phones
- high power outputs to drive even headphones of high impedance
- low impedance output (0.1 Ohm) to drive even headphones of low impedance
- Bittest to validate lossless transfer of audio data between audio source (player) and DSP in the ADI
- State overview display to show the exact status of the connection (Sync, SR, State, Bits)
- ADI-2 Remote software (free of charge) to remote control the reference converters

- With ADI-2 DAC FS more the reflevel used with HiFi components and only one D/A converter, no analog inputs, no digital outputs, but IEM output
- With ADI-2 Pro two headphones output, optional balanced mode, more analog and digital I/O (AES, ADAT, SPDIF), digital outputs, analog inputs
- With ADI-2/4 Pro SE, 5th reflevel, turntable support, customizeable RIAA decoding, trigger port for Amps, new pentaconn plug for balanced phones, IEM power settings, 2nd DA converter can be switched for rear TRS ports to make connection of a external devices (e.g. for mastering chain) possible. More analog and digital I/O (AES, ADAT, SPDIF), digital outputs, analog inputs (line, phono (MM)).

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub14

6 (edited by ramses 2024-09-14 12:46:59)

Re: Seeking solution for digital noise on Analog Outs - HDSPe AIO Pro

HappyTulip wrote:

[...]
However, I would really prefer to use an internal interface, and i am convinced of the majesty
of the HDSPe in the week iv had it up and running, the lack of latency is phenomenal, iv heard
some of these project tracks a thousand times, but this is clearly better, it sounds brilliant,
and soft/firmware works flawlessly (cubase 13), so im just not prepared to give up on it
due to the analog outs.
[...]

Just for your information: I don't want to persuade you to get another card if you don't want to.

Latency wise, all RME products have a low latency, only little differences.
See my blog article which shows RTL as reported by the RME driver.

https://www.tonstudio-forum.de/blog/ent … cts-en-de/

AFAIK, you can trust the values that RME compiled in into the driver, at least this is the outcome whenever this topic shows up. Therefore it is valid to use those reported values in such a comparison, at least for RME products. What other vendors do is sometimes their "magic" wink

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub14

Re: Seeking solution for digital noise on Analog Outs - HDSPe AIO Pro

Thanks again DAW Mastermind,
Whilst i have put some effort in already to make sure my power was connected appropriately,  I have opted to order a power conditioner (from a dedicated audio store here in australia) as a first step, to make sure that is not the issue.
Many thanks for your replies and options, ill let you all know how i go ~~
Thanks again,
~Ht

8 (edited by ramses 2024-09-14 14:52:07)

Re: Seeking solution for digital noise on Analog Outs - HDSPe AIO Pro

ok.
Btw the name of my forum nick is ramses, DAW mastermind is one of rankings usual in forum software.
But if you prefer, I can call you "New member" from now on wink

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub14

Re: Seeking solution for digital noise on Analog Outs - HDSPe AIO Pro

Have you tried with nothing connected to the hdspe but headphones, so no ons and outs? Is the headphones out also noisy then?

Vincent, Amsterdam
https://soundcloud.com/thesecretworld
BFpro fs, 2X HDSP9652 ADI-8AE, 2X HDSP9632

Re: Seeking solution for digital noise on Analog Outs - HDSPe AIO Pro

A power conditioner mostly does not help. It is the switching power supply noise from the computer itself.

Vincent, Amsterdam
https://soundcloud.com/thesecretworld
BFpro fs, 2X HDSP9652 ADI-8AE, 2X HDSP9632

11

Re: Seeking solution for digital noise on Analog Outs - HDSPe AIO Pro

Exactly, and how this one is flowing to PE. With only a headphone connected already hearing these issues usually means they flow over your body instead of PE. You are sure the PC is earthed correctly on housing, power cable, and the power outlet it is connected to has working PE?

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME

Re: Seeking solution for digital noise on Analog Outs - HDSPe AIO Pro

HappyTulip wrote:

Thanks again DAW Mastermind,
Whilst i have put some effort in already to make sure my power was connected appropriately,  I have opted to order a power conditioner (from a dedicated audio store here in australia) as a first step, to make sure that is not the issue.
Many thanks for your replies and options, ill let you all know how i go ~~
Thanks again,
~Ht

Did you get anywhere with this? I have a similar problem. So long as I only connect headphones they're absolutely silent, but as soon as I connect the main outputs I get digital noise in the headphone output - even if I only connect the speaker cables, and don't actually turn the speakers on. I know absolutely nothing about electronics, but it strikes me that this can't be a grounding issue, or dirty power supply, or I'd get the noise all the time.

As far as I can tell there is no noise on the main analogue outputs, whether or not I have the headphones plugged in, and no noise on the analogue inputs. So I'm also considering using the ADAT outputs to provide a headphones connection, but I have no way of testing whether the digital outputs are also affected by noise, and I don't want to go ahead and buy a convertor without knowing. Did you get as far as that?

Re: Seeking solution for digital noise on Analog Outs - HDSPe AIO Pro

It may be grounding problem. Under the condition speakers do not disconnect fully from mains. Many speakers do not, some may.

Try to keep speaker connected to interface, but disconnected from mains. If the noise stops, it is grouding problem, if it stays, it is most probably different problem.

Re: Seeking solution for digital noise on Analog Outs - HDSPe AIO Pro

Kubrak wrote:

It may be grounding problem. Under the condition speakers do not disconnect fully from mains. Many speakers do not, some may.

Try to keep speaker connected to interface, but disconnected from mains. If the noise stops, it is grouding problem, if it stays, it is most probably different problem.

D'oh - you're quite right. UK plugs are absolutely always grounded, whether power is on or not. Tried literally unplugging the speakers, and the headphones went silent.

I'm still not sure why - because my PC tower and the speakers are plugged into the same extension cable, so their route to ground is the same path, but it seems to matter anyway. That's good news, since the mains plugs to the speakers are quite accessible, so I can simply unplug them when working with headphones. It doesn't bode well for recording though - haven't got a phantom power unit yet, but presumably that will also give the card a second ground.

15 (edited by Kubrak 2024-09-29 10:38:02)

Re: Seeking solution for digital noise on Analog Outs - HDSPe AIO Pro

As I understand it, it affects only your headphones output. It is not my personal experience, but according to another threads on this forum some headphones are prone to it and some are not.

So. while it is somehow related to the grounding, it also relates to headphones used. You may try if grounding (or ungrounding) yourself makes the difference. You may try to touch metal parts (those without paint) by finger while listening. isolating yourself from earth by standing on rubber and not touching anything else. If possible even not touching headphones.... And headphones not touching earth....