Topic: Bypassing the PC motherboard for sound ?

I got an ADI 2/4 PRO se, using with USB directly to my PC (windows 10 64bits)
From my very limited understanding, when I'm using it with ASIO mode in the DAW, it bypasses entirely the sound card of the PC itself and volume isn't even tweakable through windows, you have to go through the interface or to change the volume.

However when I close my DAW and listen just in windows, volume is adjustable through the windows controls directly and it seems like the sound quality is worse.

My question is basically, how do you use ASIO, or bypassing windows processing / PC motherboard sound, for listening also in windows ? Using the ADI 2 as sound card.

Is that even possible to do ?

2 (edited by KaiS 2024-10-04 12:39:11)

Re: Bypassing the PC motherboard for sound ?

chapitil wrote:

… when I close my DAW and listen just in windows, volume is adjustable through the windows controls directly and it seems like the sound quality is worse.

In Windows controls, set Volume to exactly 100%.

Now run RME Bit Test (see ADI-2/4 Pro SE manual page 101) to check if you found the optimum.

If Bit Test passes your files are played without alteration, can‘t be better than that.


Bit Test is a special function built into ADI-2, very simple to use:

Play the special files for each resolution, supplied by RME, and see the “Bit Test xxx passed”-message on ADI-2’s screen.
No message: system configuration sub-optimum.

Files:
http://www.rme-audio.de/download/bit_test_wavs.zip

Re: Bypassing the PC motherboard for sound ?

Non-ASIO playback does not use the onboard soundcard. It just uses the ADI's WDM driver. There should be no significant difference in sound quality, even though the signal may go through sample rate conversion in Windows. Some media players like Foobar support ASIO playback as well (with a plugin).

Regards
Daniel Fuchs
RME

4 (edited by ramses 2024-10-04 13:08:44)

Re: Bypassing the PC motherboard for sound ?

chapitil wrote:

I got an ADI 2/4 PRO se, using with USB directly to my PC (windows 10 64bits)

From my very limited understanding, when I'm using it with ASIO mode in the DAW, it bypasses entirely the sound card of the PC itself and volume isn't even tweakable through windows, you have to go through the interface or to change the volume.

Yes, because ASIO bypasses the windows sound subsystem, then the Windows mixer is also out of the loop.


chapitil wrote:

However when I close my DAW and listen just in windows, volume is adjustable through the windows controls directly and it seems like the sound quality is worse.

My question is basically, how do you use ASIO, or bypassing windows processing / PC motherboard sound, for listening also in windows ? Using the ADI 2 as sound card.

Is that even possible to do ?

If you do not use an application with ASIO support, then you play through the WDM driver, which is Windows compatible. There, the Windows mixer is active. The WDM drivers are automatically installed and in Windows sound you can choose, e.g., the analog or phone channels to become the Windows default sound device.

If you open DAW in parallel and use the ASIO driver, then it's easy to see, that ASIO bypasses Windows sound.
The volume control of Windows mixer has no effect on the DAW volume but on Windows Sound (YouTube, ..).
Easy to test. I just did that for you.

So … When working with the DAW, use the ASIO driver. While working with the DAW it is recommended anyway to not use other applications or to use the network / browse the internet.

If you want to use the ADI-2 Pro FS for Windows sound well, then simply use the WDM driver, this you can do by opening Windows Sound and setting the ADI-2 Pro Analog Out 1/2 as the Windows default sound device.

You can also use a Music player like MusicBee which supports ASIO (in contrast to foobar2000 without plugin) to listen to music. Additionally the player offers many useful extra features and the look is customizeable.

You can even use ASIO and WDM in parallel, as I mentioned.

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub14

5 (edited by chapitil 2024-10-04 13:42:57)

Re: Bypassing the PC motherboard for sound ?

KaiS wrote:
chapitil wrote:

… when I close my DAW and listen just in windows, volume is adjustable through the windows controls directly and it seems like the sound quality is worse.

In Windows controls, set Volume to exactly 100%.

Now run RME Bit Test (see ADI-2/4 Pro SE manual page 101) to check if you found the optimum.

If Bit Test passes your files are played without alteration, can‘t be better than that.


Bit Test is a special function built into ADI-2, very simple to use:

Play the special files for each resolution, supplied by RME, and see the “Bit Test xxx passed”-message on ADI-2’s screen.
No message: system configuration sub-optimum.

Files:
http://www.rme-audio.de/download/bit_test_wavs.zip

Is the test supposed to launch automatically when you play the files ?

I played them in foobar and nothing happened, no message.

Re: Bypassing the PC motherboard for sound ?

ramses wrote:
chapitil wrote:

I got an ADI 2/4 PRO se, using with USB directly to my PC (windows 10 64bits)

From my very limited understanding, when I'm using it with ASIO mode in the DAW, it bypasses entirely the sound card of the PC itself and volume isn't even tweakable through windows, you have to go through the interface or to change the volume.

Yes, because ASIO bypasses the windows sound subsystem, then the Windows mixer is also out of the loop.


chapitil wrote:

However when I close my DAW and listen just in windows, volume is adjustable through the windows controls directly and it seems like the sound quality is worse.

My question is basically, how do you use ASIO, or bypassing windows processing / PC motherboard sound, for listening also in windows ? Using the ADI 2 as sound card.

Is that even possible to do ?

If you do not use an application with ASIO support, then you play through the WDM driver, which is Windows compatible. There, the Windows mixer is active. The WDM drivers are automatically installed and in Windows sound you can choose, e.g., the analog or phone channels to become the Windows default sound device.

If you open DAW in parallel and use the ASIO driver, then it's easy to see, that ASIO bypasses Windows sound.
The volume control of Windows mixer has no effect on the DAW volume but on Windows Sound (YouTube, ..).
Easy to test. I just did that for you.

So … When working with the DAW, use the ASIO driver. While working with the DAW it is recommended anyway to not use other applications or to use the network / browse the internet.

If you want to use the ADI-2 Pro FS for Windows sound well, then simply use the WDM driver, this you can do by opening Windows Sound and setting the ADI-2 Pro Analog Out 1/2 as the Windows default sound device.

You can also use a Music player like MusicBee which supports ASIO (in contrast to foobar2000 without plugin) to listen to music. Additionally the player offers many useful extra features and the look is customizeable.

You can even use ASIO and WDM in parallel, as I mentioned.

Thanks, I understand.

Re: Bypassing the PC motherboard for sound ?

chapitil wrote:

Is the test supposed to launch automatically when you play the files?
I played them in foobar and nothing happened, no message.

Which driver did you use in foobar2000?

Only ASIO and WASAPI (in exclusive mode) are working bit-perfect.

You also need to ensure that the volume control of the application (player) and Windows Mixer are both set to 100%.

It would be easier to perform the test with MusicBee which has ASIO support
and also supports sample rate changes very well, which is not the case for all players.

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub14

8 (edited by chapitil 2024-10-04 14:44:05)

Re: Bypassing the PC motherboard for sound ?

ramses wrote:
chapitil wrote:

Is the test supposed to launch automatically when you play the files?
I played them in foobar and nothing happened, no message.

Which driver did you use in foobar2000?

Only ASIO and WASAPI (in exclusive mode) are working bit-perfect.

You also need to ensure that the volume control of the application (player) and Windows Mixer are both set to 100%.

It would be easier to perform the test with MusicBee which has ASIO support
and also supports sample rate changes very well, which is not the case for all players.

Tried it with MusicBee also, same results. No message pops up on the interface.

How do I activate ASIO in the ADI to use in conjunction with foobar (ASIO output plugin already installed) ?

Re: Bypassing the PC motherboard for sound ?

There's nothing to activate, assuming you have installed the driver, just choose ASIO in the software configuration.

Regards
Daniel Fuchs
RME

Re: Bypassing the PC motherboard for sound ?

RME Support wrote:

There's nothing to activate, assuming you have installed the driver, just choose ASIO in the software configuration.

Indeed, my bad. Now the bit test passed in ASIO mode on foobar.

If you don't mind, a follow-up question :

What output reference level should I choose for optimal playback quality ?

I'm using an electrostatic headphone amp out of the analog xlrs of the ADI, so I got potentially 2 volume knobs, the one from the ADI, the one from the headphone amp, but I'm unsure which reference level I should choose for the best quality and avoiding "strain" on my equipment.

Re: Bypassing the PC motherboard for sound ?

No difference in sound quality, just choose whatever matches the amp's input level specifications.

Regards
Daniel Fuchs
RME

12 (edited by ramses 2024-10-04 15:27:20)

Re: Bypassing the PC motherboard for sound ?

Do you want to use dynamic loudness? If yes, then using auto ref level would also make sense.
Use then a volume range up to a certain max volume level which doesn't overload the inputs of your preamp.

If a 440 Hz sine wave starts to distort, then you know how far you can turn up the volume of the ADI-2 Pro with auto reflevel enabled.

On the electrostatic headphone amp dial-in a comfortably max volume.

Keep it at that level there. Now only use the volume knob of the ADI-2 Pro...

Configure dynamic loudness and set Low Vol Ref to the lowest listening volume. For me, this is -50 dB.
Then  dynamic loudness starts at -30 and will increase bass and treble dynamically over a range of 20 dB and reach the highest Bass / Treble increase at -50 dB.

The max Bass / Treble increase is per default +7 dB and can be customized as well from 1..10 dB in 0.5 dB increments.

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub14

Re: Bypassing the PC motherboard for sound ?

ramses wrote:

Do you want to use dynamic loudness? If yes, then using auto ref level would also make sense.
Use then a volume range up to a certain max volume level which doesn't overload the inputs of your preamp.

If a 440 Hz sine wave starts to distort, then you know how far you can turn up the volume of the ADI-2 Pro with auto reflevel enabled.

On the electrostatic headphone amp dial-in a comfortably max volume.

Keep it at that level there. Now only use the volume knob of the ADI-2 Pro...

Configure dynamic loudness and set Low Vol Ref to the lowest listening volume. For me, this is -50 dB.
Then  dynamic loudness starts at -30 and will increase bass and treble dynamically over a range of 20 dB and reach the highest Bass / Treble increase at -50 dB.

The max Bass / Treble increase is per default +7 dB and can be customized as well from 1..10 dB in 0.5 dB increments.

I'm not exactly sure what you mean by dynamic loudness. Loudness automatically adapting to the track being played ? I prefer to keep it at something steady that I can change myself if needed, not automatically.

Re: Bypassing the PC motherboard for sound ?

RME Support wrote:

No difference in sound quality, just choose whatever matches the amp's input level specifications.

Ok thanks, I thought there was a real difference in quality, but that's probably my ears playing tricks on me.

Re: Bypassing the PC motherboard for sound ?

The manual is an excellent source of information for all features...

Dynamic Loudness is explained in chapter 8.5, 12.2.3, 34.16

The latest versions of the manual you find online:
https://rme-audio.de/downloads/adi24pro_d.pdf
https://rme-audio.de/downloads/adi24pro_e.pdf

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub14

16 (edited by Muffin 2024-10-04 16:21:05)

Re: Bypassing the PC motherboard for sound ?

ramses wrote:

The manual is an excellent source of information for all features...

Dynamic Loudness is explained in chapter 8.5, 12.2.3, 34.16

The latest versions of the manual you find online:
https://rme-audio.de/downloads/adi24pro_d.pdf
https://rme-audio.de/downloads/adi24pro_e.pdf

An important reason for me buying my first RME device a few years ago was the excellent documentation. And let me add that it's updated as well.

Re: Bypassing the PC motherboard for sound ?

Yes you're right again. I need to read more of it.

I don't know if I'm allowed to do that, but would you happen to know how to enable ASIO for firefox by any chance ? Want to bypass windows sound altogether even when using firefox, don't know if that's possible.

18 (edited by Muffin 2024-10-04 17:26:10)

Re: Bypassing the PC motherboard for sound ?

chapitil wrote:

Yes you're right again. I need to read more of it.

I don't know if I'm allowed to do that, but would you happen to know how to enable ASIO for firefox by any chance ? Want to bypass windows sound altogether even when using firefox, don't know if that's possible.

Of course you can ask, no one here has suggested otherwise, though reading the excellent manual and then come back if any issue is still unresolved is encouraged.

Firefox will use the audio device you have specified in the Windows Audio Settings, just like most other application, as it is not aware of ASIO drivers as such. DAWs, as part of their nature, handle this explicitly. Very few other application types does, though.

For me, at least, as a consumer, the limiting factor is the source material, and for this Windows Sound (or what they currently call it) sounds great to me. I do have Foobar2000 with the ASIO plugin, but to be honest, I can't hear any difference by casual testing, so good enough for me.

Re: Bypassing the PC motherboard for sound ?

chapitil wrote:

Yes you're right again. I need to read more of it.
I don't know if I'm allowed to do that, but would you happen to know how to enable ASIO for firefox by any chance ?
Want to bypass windows sound altogether even when using firefox, don't know if that's possible.

You can fully bypass the windows sound system only by using an application with an ASIO driver.

The windows sound system is not generally degrading the sound as you can also achieve bit perfect audio transmission by using WASAPI drivers in exclusive mode. In this mode only this particular application can access the audio device.

Back to Firefox .. If you hear audio through Firefox, then in most cases we talk about YouTube, right?
YouTube audio is already a little compressed and by this a little "degraded" in sound.
But the audio quality is still well enough and the quality through the windows sound system
via RME WDM driver is well enough.

I wouldn't make a science out of things, which are not really worth it.

If you want to listen in high quality then simply stick to audio drivers which enable playing lossless
- ASIO drivers
- WASAPI in exclusive mode through the RME WDM driver

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub14

Re: Bypassing the PC motherboard for sound ?

Alright, thanks for the explanations guys, really helpful.