Topic: Cheap hi quality preamp

Are there any such preamps to get 60-80db amplification without noise? Maybe some old ones? My current preamp starts adding noise after +30db.

Re: Cheap hi quality preamp

How do you test for this ?
Do you open the gain knob without any mic connected ?

M1-Sequoia, Madiface Pro, Digiface USB, Babyface silver and blue

3

Re: Cheap hi quality preamp

Every preamp adds noise with gain increased. That's physics.

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME

Re: Cheap hi quality preamp

Mic is of course connected. Mic has its own noise of course, namely 15db as per manufacturer but preamp adds too much noise after +30. That's why i have to later boost each recording by 15db manually by multiband expander in a noiseless manner after weakening noise in sound editor using recorded noise for profile. I wonder how they get clean and load recordings. Btw the built in mic  in panasonic gs400 dv camera records loudly and cleanly, almost scientifically razor clean. Some years ago guys from a diy forum were buying same or similar panasonic capsules for diy mics. What i want to say is that loud noiseless recordings are possible even with some cheapest preamps and capsules. But i don't see anything like those in the market for musicians...

5 (edited by Muffin 2024-11-11 15:05:03)

Re: Cheap hi quality preamp

geroi wrote:

Mic is of course connected. Mic has its own noise of course, namely 15db as per manufacturer but preamp adds too much noise after +30. That's why i have to later boost each recording by 15db manually by multiband expander in a noiseless manner after weakening noise in sound editor using recorded noise for profile. I wonder how they get clean and load recordings. Btw the built in mic  in panasonic gs400 dv camera records loudly and cleanly, almost scientifically razor clean. Some years ago guys from a diy forum were buying same or similar panasonic capsules for diy mics. What i want to say is that loud noiseless recordings are possible even with some cheapest preamps and capsules. But i don't see anything like those in the market for musicians...

Yeah, sure. roll

Re: Cheap hi quality preamp

Is there any RME gear involved here? What kind of mic are you using?

Regards
Daniel Fuchs
RME

Re: Cheap hi quality preamp

Well, i use the cheapest gear for not hard to guess reasons. Bm800 electret mics with about 12mm capsule fed into audiobuddy m-audio preamp. The guys from that diy forum (inactive now) told that audiobuddy's electrical scheme is crap and gives noise. My intention is to find some cheap but high quality solution, perhaps to get some old ribbon or dynamic mic but those are passive and require at least 60db clean preamplification. They constantly whisper apply compression to reveal ambience... well it reveals noise instead. Understand, what i mean? Namely, the noise is recorded instead of ambience and high harmonics for which reason boosting highs is almost impossible as it also reveals noise. I wonder how they get that airy guitar tone for example in Greg Joy's album Celtic secrets 1993. Something is wrong with present-day cheap equipment for musicians. It just spoils sound.

Re: Cheap hi quality preamp

I record into hammerfall's inputs.

9 (edited by waedi 2024-11-11 19:19:17)

Re: Cheap hi quality preamp

geroi wrote:

I record into hammerfall's inputs.

Please be more accurate, there is no RME product with this name.

What do you mean with ...just spoils sound ?

I think you have special expectations. The guitar in celtic secrets sounds nice, but nothing special.
I would record that with any condenser mic thru any preamp.
In a big room with lot of wood for a comfortable sound. The room is the key,  (and of course the excellent musician), not the equipment.
And afterwards the recorded guitar seems to have some exciter effect on it.

M1-Sequoia, Madiface Pro, Digiface USB, Babyface silver and blue

Re: Cheap hi quality preamp

The topic is about preamp. Anyway, i use multiface nuendo steinberg hdsp with inputs' selfnoise at -90db as per hdspmixer's meters. I remember in 1999 we recorded loudly and cleanly with plastic electret genius 5 usd mic plugged into some cheap pc soundcard with no peamps involved. Now with rock solid metal cased bm800 and preamp i get noise. Without ionizer dx plugin it would be impossible to do any recording. It's real savior to boost signal without boosting noise.

Re: Cheap hi quality preamp

Multiface has no Mic Preamps, do you hear a high pitch white noise ? On every gear ?

M1-Sequoia, Madiface Pro, Digiface USB, Babyface silver and blue

Re: Cheap hi quality preamp

The card is working well, i am pleased to have acquired it. And right, it has no preamps. Right, white noise is observed with delta1010lt and audigy2 also and it's much louder (-72 vs -90db input selfnoise) than noise obtained via hammerfall. Btw audigy2 is usable on linux and cleaner than that delta1010lt. I was astonished to find out it can record smth as on windows xp kxdriver it had been noisy and too quiet as hell. We have 2 pin receptacles here in our houses, no 3rd ground. But i suspect that it's mic and preamp who are to blame. If we think it over logically with 60db amplification all should be amped, noise both with instrument's signal and that signal should mask noise but that does not happen which indicates that audiobuddy starts giving noise at amplification over +30. But even if staying within +30db i have to clean noise, use gated boost by ionizer to get some highs. It's all painstaking.

Re: Cheap hi quality preamp

What means input selfnoise ? Is the gain open ? How much ? Is there a mic connected or not ?

M1-Sequoia, Madiface Pro, Digiface USB, Babyface silver and blue

Re: Cheap hi quality preamp

Input selfnoise means noise shown in hdspmixer or daw track with monitoring ON when nothing is plugged into input. This noise happens inside card, not from preamp, not from mic.

Re: Cheap hi quality preamp

We can add to -90 noise from mic of 15db, so it becomes -75 while silence threshold is -80db and all this without adding preamp noise. With preamp noise it becomes somewhere -55db. To compensate for loss of highs happening in condenser mics 12db boost of highs is needed. So i remove noise by 15db and later boost with gating by 15db. I cannot boost normally without noise removal and without gating. Also i can't reveal any ambience because there is noise instead of reverb at low levels inside recordings. The same concerns high harmonics.

Re: Cheap hi quality preamp

geroi wrote:

Input selfnoise means noise shown in hdspmixer or daw track with monitoring ON when nothing is plugged into input. This noise happens inside card, not from preamp, not from mic.

Every preamp creates a lot of noise when nothing is connected.
You have to connect a mic or a dummy plug to make a test.

https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/CxsAAOSw~M5lNsdb/s-l1600.jpg

M1-Sequoia, Madiface Pro, Digiface USB, Babyface silver and blue

Re: Cheap hi quality preamp

I'm going to close this thread and remove it in due course. Please discuss general matters of third party gear on Gearspace or a similar forum. None of this is relevant to RME.

Regards
Daniel Fuchs
RME