Topic: Fireface UFX II: 1 slave works, but not 2

Hi,

I’m trying to set up a second slave to my Fireface UFX II, but I am unable to get the second slave to work properly.

Here’s my setup in a Mac enviro:

RME                    MOTU 8 Pre         Focusrite OctoPre
ADAT 1 In <———ADAT Out
                           ADAT In <———-ADAT Out


General Settings:
The Sample Rate of all 3 devices is 48KHz.
The Clock Source for the RME is Internal, and Clock Source for both slaves is ADAT.
For both slaves, the Source of output/input is ADAT.


Behavior Description:
Whichever slave is first in the daisy chain works, while whichever is last does not.

A) For example, if the config is the following:

RME                    MOTU 8 Pre       Focusrite OctoPre
ADAT 1 In <———ADAT Out
                          ADAT In  <———ADAT Out

The VU meters on the front of the MOTU work correctly, and MOTU input shows up in RME’s TotalMix app correctly. However, neither the VU meters on the Focurite work, nor is there input showing in TotalMix display signal.


B) However. when switching the position of the two slaves:

RME                    Focusrite            MOTU 8 Pre         
ADAT 1 In <———ADAT Out
                          ADAT In   <———ADAT Out

Now the VU meters on the front of the Focusrite  work correctly, and input shows up in RME’s TotalMix app correctly. However, neither the VU meters on the MOTU nor input in TotalMix display signal for the MOTU.

The only way I can change settings on the MOTU is to connect the USB directly to the Mac, but then switch the USB cable back to the Fireface for operation. This changes the mode of the MOTU from "Interface" to "Converter". I don't know if this has any bearing on the problem; but since the behavior in the "end of line position" is the same for both slaves, I imagine the problem lies elsewhere?

Any suggestions for what I’m doing wrong? Thank you.

2021 MacBook Pro+M1Chip+64GB RAM
AI: Fireface UFX II; MOTU 8Pre, Focusrite OctoPre
OS: Sonoma 14.4.1

Re: Fireface UFX II: 1 slave works, but not 2

BTW, I've updated my signature:

2021 MacBook Pro+M1 Max Chip+64GB RAM
AI Master: RME Fireface UFX II
AI Slaves: MOTU 8Pre, Focusrite OctoPre
OS: Sonoma 14.4.1
DAW: Logic X 11.0.1

Thanks

2021 MacBook Pro+M1Chip+64GB RAM
AI: Fireface UFX II; MOTU 8Pre, Focusrite OctoPre
OS: Sonoma 14.4.1

Re: Fireface UFX II: 1 slave works, but not 2

DOh! Make that:

2021 MacBook Pro+M1Chip+64GB RAM
AI: Fireface UFX II; MOTU 8Pre, Focusrite OctoPre
OS: Sonoma 14.4.1

Ran over allowed characters, changes did not save.

2021 MacBook Pro+M1Chip+64GB RAM
AI: Fireface UFX II; MOTU 8Pre, Focusrite OctoPre
OS: Sonoma 14.4.1

4 (edited by waedi 2024-11-12 22:42:19)

Re: Fireface UFX II: 1 slave works, but not 2

Try this way :

RME                    Focusrite            MOTU 8 Pre         
ADAT 1 Out ———>ADAT In
                          ADAT Out   ———>ADAT In

( The slaves need to receive clock from the master )

Focusrite and Motu need setting clock-mode external optical, not fix 48kHz internal.

If you want to receive the signals from the others in the RME, you have to use two cables In and Out.

RME                    Focusrite            MOTU 8 Pre         
ADAT 1 In <———ADAT Out
  ADAT 1 Out———>ADAT In   
ADAT2 Out————————————>ADAT In
ADAT2In<—————————————ADAT Out

Same clock setting, RME clock-mode internal 48kHz, Focusrite and MOTU clock-mode external optical (or however they call it, maybe "sync-to-adat")

M1-Sequoia, Madiface Pro, Digiface USB, Babyface silver and blue

Re: Fireface UFX II: 1 slave works, but not 2

Great, Thx!

I’ll give that a try. I did try that config, but probably hadn’t yet synced all the settings.

I’ll let you know the results.

2021 MacBook Pro+M1Chip+64GB RAM
AI: Fireface UFX II; MOTU 8Pre, Focusrite OctoPre
OS: Sonoma 14.4.1

Re: Fireface UFX II: 1 slave works, but not 2

OK, no change yet. To the previous config, I've added the OUT of the RME to the IN of the MOTU; and the OUT of the MOTU to the IN of the Focusrite. So it looks like this:

RME                      MOTU 8 Pre         Focusrite OctoPre
ADAT 1 In <——— ADAT Out
ADAT 1 Out——>   ADAT In
                           ADAT Out ———> ADAT In
                           ADAT In <———-  ADAT Out

The Focusrite has the following front panel settings for syncing:

-Internal
-ADAT
-W/Clock
I have this set to ADAT.

There is a separate setting for Sample Rate (Is this different than Clock sync rate?)
This is set to 48kHz.
There is no Focusrite applet nor driver for Mac OS, AFAIK.


The MOTU has the following front panel settings:
Clock = 48 (There is no option for "ADAT", "External", etc; only typical frequencies for Sample Rates.)
Optical In = 1x (2x changes the 48k clock rate to 96k)

The MOTU Audio  Setup applet has the following relevant settings:
Sample Rate = 48k
Clock Source = ADAT Optical
Optical Input = ADAT
Optical Output = ADAT


The Fireface settings are...

Properties:
Firmware=v26
Driver=v4.10

Options:
AES Input Source = XLR
AES Output Format = Professional
Optical 1 Output = ADAT
Optical 1 Output = ADAT

Clock Mode:
Sample Rate=48k
Clock Source=Internal
Word Clock Termination = unchecked
Word Clock I/O = Checked

Input Status:
Word Clock = No lock
AES = No Lock
ADAT 1 Display: Bounces between "Lock" and "Sync" for no apparent reason; and also displays "48kHz"
ADAT 2 Display: "No Lock"

The above lists are pretty exhaustive; I'd attach screenshots of the Fireface and MOTU setting screens, but don't see a way to attach to this reply. (For an HTML embedded link, I *think* I'd need to have a public-facing website to point to the jpegs.

Thanks so much for any ideas!

2021 MacBook Pro+M1Chip+64GB RAM
AI: Fireface UFX II; MOTU 8Pre, Focusrite OctoPre
OS: Sonoma 14.4.1

Re: Fireface UFX II: 1 slave works, but not 2

One more tiny bit of info...

When I swap the daisy chain positions of the MOTU and the Focusrite, (i.e., RME<---Focusrite<---MOTU) I get one feature better than when the MOTU was first (in front of the Focusrite):

With the MOTU last, now the VU meters for both slaves work -- I get appropriate signal display in the front VU LEDs in both the Focusrite and the MOTU.

For intended usage, I actually prefer this order of daisy chain position. So Yay for that.

Unfortunately, still looking for solution to the communication from the second slave (MOTU) to the TotalMix app. Thx.

2021 MacBook Pro+M1Chip+64GB RAM
AI: Fireface UFX II; MOTU 8Pre, Focusrite OctoPre
OS: Sonoma 14.4.1

8 (edited by ramses 2024-11-13 01:28:01)

Re: Fireface UFX II: 1 slave works, but not 2

@SurfaceTension: please post the URL to the product page of the products that you use (for Motu and OctoPre, the UFX II is known).

Why? There are many product variants, especially for the Focusrite OctoPre some of which only have ADAT outputs. It needs to be clarified whether these products have ADAT inputs as well as ADAT outputs to be able to receive clock from a master (ideally from the UFX II) via their ADAT inputs.

Using Word Clock (WC) could be an alternative, but the separate word clock cabling is better avoided if it is not absolutely necessary, as it does not improve the clock quality compared to using the clock signal that is also supplied "in band" while transmitting audio data via ADAT.

I suggest you read my blog article about clock synch, to get some basics on this topic:
https://www.tonstudio-forum.de/blog/ent … ios-en-de/

It's pretty clear that your idea for such a setup does not work because the clock signal
- is sent by the clock master out on all of its digital outputs (or WC OUT)
- can only be received through an ADAT input (or WC IN)

You configure a device as clock master by configuring it to use its internal clock (only one device in the setup).
For the other devices, the clock slaves, you need to configure from which digital input (or WC) to read the clock.

Therefore, this setup can't work, if I understood you correctly, then you want the UFX II to act as clock master and slaves are the Motu and the Focusrite preamp.
The weak points here:
1. How shall the Motu get the clock from UFX II?
2. How shall the UFX II get the data from the Focusrite? Through the Motu, how?!

RME                    MOTU 8 Pre         Focusrite OctoPre
ADAT 1 In <———ADAT Out
                           ADAT In <———-ADAT Out

From your other posting, it seems to be the case, that both preamps also have ADAT IN.
So we do not need to use Word Clock, and also we can keep the UFX II as clock master.

The only thing which will make most sense, if the two Mic Pres have ADAT IN and OUT:

[clock master]                                                                                                     [clock slaves]
UFX II+---ADAT1 OUT---------[data and clock signal]------------------>ADAT IN----+MOTU 8 Pre
         +---ADAT1 IN<----------[data]---------------------------------------ADAT OUT---+
         +---ADAT2 OUT---------[data and clock signal]------------------>ADAT IN----+Focusrite OctoPre
         +---ADAT2 IN<----------[data]---------------------------------------ADAT OUT---+

Configure UFX II in driver settings: clock source "internal"
Then the UFX II acts as master and sends out its clock signal out on every digital output and WC.

Configure Motu and Focusrite Preamps as clock slave by setting clock source to ADAT IN.

Validate the setup in UFX II driver settings under "Input status" that you see
ADAT1 in status "sync" and also
ADAT2 in status "sync"
Status synch indicates that the UFX II received its own clock back from the two preamps, only then the devices are clock synchronized.

In terms of ADAT cabling.
If your preamp has two ADAT inputs and outputs (to be able to support double speed), then you need to use the primary ADAT input and output port to connect to the UFX II. On Focusrite preamps this port is often labeled additionally as "1..8".

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub14

Re: Fireface UFX II: 1 slave works, but not 2

ramses wrote:

Therefore, this setup can't work, if I understood you correctly, then you want the UFX II to act as clock master and slaves are the Motu and the Focusrite preamp.
The weak points here:
1. How shall the Motu get the clock from UFX II?
2. How shall the UFX II get the data from the Focusrite? Through the Motu, how?!

*SNIP*

The only thing which will make most sense, if the two Mic Pres have ADAT IN and OUT:

[clock master]                                                                                                     [clock slaves]
UFX II+---ADAT1 OUT---------[data and clock signal]------------------>ADAT IN----+MOTU 8 Pre
         +---ADAT1 IN<----------[data]---------------------------------------ADAT OUT---+
         +---ADAT2 OUT---------[data and clock signal]------------------>ADAT IN----+Focusrite OctoPre
         +---ADAT2 IN<----------[data]---------------------------------------ADAT OUT---+


Thank you Ramses,

This is great! Using your config, both Slaves appear and are functional in the TotalMix app:

RME                                                        Focusrite OctoPre         
ADAT 1 Out——[Clock Signal & Data] ——>ADAT In
ADAT 1 In <——[Data]—————————— ADAT Out

                                                               MOTU 8Pre
ADAT 2 Out—— [Clock Signal & Data] ——>ADAT In
ADAT 2 In <——[Data]——————————  ADAT Out


I had a misconception about ADAT routing:

    A) Using double cabling between each device, I thought the Clock signal (set at the RME) would pass thru the first slave, and be sent on to the second slave.

    B) I thought that daisy chaining was the preferred way to add additional slaves & channels.
         
(Although item B —not daisy chaining— raises the theoretical question
“How do you Max out the  60 channels of the RME without daisy chains?”

Luckily for me, I don’t need an answer to that, as I can’t imagine ever needing more than the 30 channels I now have…Said the guy with a 4TB hard drive in 2022.

So, problem solved, thank you so much!

2021 MacBook Pro+M1Chip+64GB RAM
AI: Fireface UFX II; MOTU 8Pre, Focusrite OctoPre
OS: Sonoma 14.4.1

10 (edited by waedi 2024-11-13 02:21:43)

Re: Fireface UFX II: 1 slave works, but not 2

That is not daisy chain. Daisy chain is for MADI equipment.
Adat devices are connected just normal.

For the clock, yes the sync can be done by forwarding thru another device.
But after all we want audio signals transferred, right ?

The 60 channels of the UFXll is available by analog connections when you connect 2 ADDA converters, not other interfaces !
This MOTU seems to be something like a interface ? And it is connected with USB to the computer ?
Better get rid of it and buy a Adat converter.

M1-Sequoia, Madiface Pro, Digiface USB, Babyface silver and blue

11 (edited by ramses 2024-11-13 09:31:48)

Re: Fireface UFX II: 1 slave works, but not 2

> (Although item B —not daisy chaining— raises the theoretical question
> “How do you Max out the  60 channels of the RME without daisy chains?”

The UFX II offers 30 input and 30 output channels at single speed, often described as a 60-channel interface (30 in + 30 out at single speed).

30 channels IN:
8 analog
4 Mic
2 AES
8 ADAT1           <--------- 8 channels from preamp #1 @single speed
8 ADAT2           <--------- 8 channels from preamp #2 @single speed

30 channels OUT
8 analog
4 phones 1+2
2 AES
8 ADAT1           <--------- 8 channels to preamp #1 @single speed
8 ADAT2           <--------- 8 channels to preamp #2 @single speed

ADAT is a "point-to-point" connection between two devices, without support for chaining.

MADI is a bus system where multiple devices can be connected in a ring structure. In such a serial chain, all MADI channels are passed through each connected device, requiring additional configuration on each device to specify which channels (1–64 at single speed, assuming no Varispeed) are used for input and output.

In both systems, channel capacity depends on the sample rate, with channel multiplexing employed to increase data transfer for higher sample rates.

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub14